Unsatisfied Judgment

I'm not trying to be snarky so don't jump on me, but I'm a little confused why an attorney would be asking a bunch of normal travelers who are not experts in international law a question like this. I doubt if anyone here would be able to answer your question. If you need a definitive answer, you could do some research online on the US State Dept website or the Italian Consulate website or contact someone at those agencies or contact an attorney specializing in international law.

Seriously doubt the border is interested in a 250 civil judgement.. but what do I know

Technically, and legally as I understand it, they don't have to have proof that YOU damaged the vehicle, only that it was damaged during your rental term. Slight difference. So you parked the vehicle somewhere and someone else ran into it causing the damage. You didn't cause the damage, yet you are responsible for it since it happened while you were renting it. If you have proof that the damage was not done during your rental, either it existed before you took possession or was not there when you returned the vehicle then you might have a case against the charge. How much is your time worth? is it better to just allow the $250 charge and move on regardless of the principle of the matter and proving who was really right? At least it was just $250 and not the much higher charges for similar damage I have read about.

There is no way they are stopping you at the border or in an any legal trouble.

It is possible if you try to Rent from an Avis office in Italy that it may come up, though they likely transfer these type of things to credit collectors and don't deal with it themselves.

You may find that $250 on your credit report someday though and have a harder time getting it removed so it could affect a future loan application or something along those lines so may be best to deal with it at this time for that reason.
Sounds like Chase removed the charge from your card but you did not satisfy Avis in Italy so the amount is still outstanding even if you don't think it is warranted.
As stated above me, it would be hard to prove that the damage they are reporting did not happen while you were responsible for the car.

Would be the same if it was a domestic issue, they turn the amount over to a collection agency, they threaten law suits, wage garnishings and all sorts of crazy stuff in hopes that you pay it. For an amount of this size all they can do is report it to the credit agencies and they will probably try and do that if you don't respond to them now and resolve it.
I don't see it going away based on what you have stated.

I would pay it and get it off my plate (it has been over two years already!). There's no point in arguing with rental car firms because there's no incentive whatsoever for either party to surrender (so they will continue to bother you since there's no cost of stopping...and you'll continue to dig in your heels). Yes, they will rip you off for charges that aren't your own. I was just in Mexico and folks in line at the airport were talking about some rental car outfitter charging their card for some unsubstantiated damages they claimed were there prior to the rental (and were allegedly documented but the photos were frankly not that great, so it left an opening for disagreement)...it just depends how much your peace of mind is worth. Of course, they're just trying to intimidate you and I doubt it has real teeth, but again, if you can ignore it without getting aggravated, then all the better. If not, consider paying and just putting it behind you once and for all.

Having been hosed by the scoundrels who run rental agencies in the past for damage we didn't cause, I a obsessive about documentation of any pre-existing damage. It has saved us a couple of times now because I had in writing that the damage existed. Last year in Hawaii I found a few scratches and got the guy to document and he actually noticed major undercarriage damage that I hadn't even noticed. He claimed that the previous renter would now be charged about $1500 and his insurance wouldn't cover because off road driving was not covered (and would be the cause of the damage.( If I had not brought him out to the car, we would have probably been billed that and unable to contest. Last time we were in Rome I insisted on documenting every ding and the agent brought out a stamp for the paperwork that said 'any scratch smaller than 5cm will not be charged' -- they have this on a stamp but only bring it out if you insist on documentation. Years ago the agent ran our car into a pole while bringing it out from the lot and they documented the very serious damage as they had no other car to rent to us. This was in Rome and when we got to Paris, they wanted to take this documentation without giving us a copy. We had to hassle them for 3 hours at CDG before they finally mysteriously discovered that yes they could get us a copy. I think they assumed we had a flight to catch and they could wait us out.

I don't think you can ever win this without great documentation that the damage was pre-existing. Saying is not enough; it has to be in writing. And yes, this sitting on your record will mess up future mortgages etc. (been there done that and had enormous hassles with charges from a stolen card that were dismissed but still sat in our credit report)

If it was determined you did not owe the money, as you say in Line 3, how could they get a judgment against you?

I'm not a lawyer but wouldn't The Hague Convention rules apply to a lawsuit initiated by an Italian business against an American residing in the US?

Since you're going in the Spring, I wouldn't worry about a judgment against you unless the Avis attorney manages to gets you served between now and then and you don't bother to file an answer.

If you get sued for property damages in a car accident here in the US, they can come after your assets, they don't arrest you for a civil judgement. It's not any different in Italy. Actually in Italy people don't go to jail even when they commit crimes, unless they are violent and dangerous.

In your case, unless you have assets in Italy, a potential judgement by an Italian court against you would need to be enforced in a foreign jurisdiction where you live (you didn't fill your profile, so I don't know where you live exactly). The cost and process of doing so is so high and long that nobody would attempt it for 250€. Therefore whatever they told you is an empty threat. Just don't rent from Avis in Italy, they are the most expensive so why would you do that anyway?
Just go to a consolidator and rent through them choosing the zero deductible insurance option. www.autoeurope.com or www.kemwel.com are good ones and they work with major companies like Europcar, Hertz, Sixt, Avis-Budget, etc.

Is 250.00 euros worth two years of hassle? I'm frugal, but not that frugal. Pay it and be done with it, hassle or not at the border...which I can't imagine. Your lesson learned: document the heck out of your rental turnovers, in or out.

The advantage of Leasing vs Renting, particularly with a consolidator like AutoEurope ... you don't pay for any damage. Zero deductible. And those "surprise" traffic tickets a year later? ... you don't get them either.

To follow up Jim and clarify: leasing through Autoeurope or Renault USA automatically includes insurance for dings and crashes. Renting through Autoeurope, other consolidators, or car rental agencies you can choose different levels of insurance depending upon how much you buy.
Like Janet, after reading so many cases on this board, I now drag the rental people out of their offices to document the tiniest little scratches at both ends of a rental. Just had to do it in Nice and again in my hometown. Your post will help others.

Thank you very much for all the replies, they have been very helpful, even the critical ones. Yes I am a lawyer and have practiced mostly criminal law for almost 50 years. I understand we do not use jail to collect debts in the US but wasn't sure why an Italian lawyer is taking this case if he didn't think he had tools to collect the judgment. The judgment should be easy to get without me there to defend myself. I have seen outrages in the US on relatively minor criminal matters with persons held for a month coming back from an international vacation on no bail status and transported slowly cross country. In theory it wouldn't be any more difficult to put the judgment in the computer than a warrant. I felt that experienced travelers would have more hands on experience and using the forum might be more efficient than trying to get a legal opinion from an international lawyer. I have tried a number of resources to get answers with no success. I am somewhat chastened by observing the EU police including falling prey to the used tickets in the Paris metro deal. I had travelled about 6 times to Paris and used the Metro extensively and never was aware of the rule. My elderly wife and I were accosted by 4 police in the Metro who roughed me up, yelling in French and demanding 40 euros. They would not stop until they got their money. Can't think of anything like that occurring in the US today.

In this case the scene renting the car at the Florence Airport was chaotic. Nobody asked me to inspect the car or went with me to inspect the car. The car inspection form is blank, the box for no current damage is not checked. The alleged damage is a scuff on the bottom of the front plastic bumper in the corner that is not visible unless you lie on the ground (it was muddy) or step pretty far away from the car. It is of a nature that the car almost certainly had to be moving when it happened.

Yes I am trying to settle it, but at this time it is very difficult communicating with this Italian attorney and they have added a lot to the original amount. It offends an attorney that they chose to contest the matter, did not reserve their rights and then ignored the result after all the time and effort to adjudicate it. In American law the old one bite of the apple principle.

The metro police did not rough you up. Never once ever heard of them touching anyone.. that wasn't trying to run away I mean.

We have been stopped by them. they are polite , but adamant. And as a lawyer you must know ignorance of a rule or law is not a defence.

If you come to Vancouver BC Canada and go on the Skytrain with an invalid ticket.. you will face same treatment.. perhaps it sounded scarier to you because they don't speak English, or don't speak it well, so may have sounded blunt or rude .

I've dragged someone out to go over every inch of the rental car for decades, here and in Europe. I also now take photos of every portion of the car with my iPhone.

And this is why I love trains.

My opinion, before and especially after Roberto's post, is I would not pay it.
The Italian attorney, if he even is one, sounds like an ambulance chaser to me.

And this is why I love trains.

AMEN Kathy!

I've read many times on this forum of people asking about paying a traffic ticket they received months or years later and the advice is always to pay it. The reasoning is always if you return you could be denied entry because of the ticket. Why is a civil case different?

Since no one has yet mentioned this, I will point out that the OP said he used his Chase Visa card to pay for the rental. While coverage can vary, most cc's have some sort of rental car insurance. I had some minor damage on one in Italy, and my Chase Visa reimbursed me within about 6 weeks after I filed the claim.

I have never heard anyone say anything like you can be denied entry to the country due to a parking or speeding ticket.
As with this case if you don't pay someday down the road it may appear on your credit report, there is no way for them to force you to pay or deny you entry.

Added difference in the case of a speeding or parking ticket unpaid is if you were ever pulled over by the police in Italy either cause of another violation or just a routine check you could have trouble.

Thank you for all your information, it is very helpful. I am going to try and pay this. Some of the information is not necessarily intuitive or something you might look up. Of course I learned the hard way you must keep used metro tickets, but I am a criminal defense attorney and don't always defer to authority. When 4 police are demanding money from you (American police don't fine you on the spot) and you have no idea why, some of us don't automatically defer. We were walking underground between stations and I thought perhaps I should just turn and go back where I came from, as I did this one the officers most assuredly body slammed me up against the tunnel wall. We did give them the money.

My wife made the car rental reservation and didn't decline the CDW, Chase says that means they won't cover it. Avis says the damage is within the CDW deductible. So you must check, but I believe for the Chase benefit to apply in a foreign country you must decline all coverage. Apologize if someone covered this above.

Read this RS article about rental car insurance in Italy. You cannot decline CDW, and most credit cards exclude Italy (and sometimes Ireland) from the protection offered.

https://www.ricksteves.com/travel-tips/transportation/car-rental-cdw

While the many helpful replies are appreciated, I've edited a number of replies that were rude to the OP. Questioning the OP's motives, inappropriate references to the OP's occupation or family, etc aren't acceptable. The OP had a perfectly valid question. Please keep this a polite place to discuss travel. Thanks everyone!

Kathy: "And this is why I love trains."

I love trains too ...but they don't go up and down in Tuscany hill country :-)

jar,

I'm a bit late getting into the discussion, but wanted to add a few comments. If I understand your post correctly, the car rental agency added an extra charge for minor damages after the rental period was concluded. You disputed this charge and your credit card firm cancelled it, which prompted the rental agency to hire a lawyer in Rome and proceed with an "unsatisfied judgement". You indicated in a subsequent post that "Nobody asked me to inspect the car or went with me to inspect the car. The car inspection form is blank, the box for no current damage is not checked." Based on that, how are they determining that the damage occurred during your rental? The proof seems to be very thin, as the damage could have also occurred on a previous rental.

I have to wonder just what they hope to accomplish by hiring a Lawyer in Rome as collecting an "unsatisfied judgement" from an person overseas will likely cost them far more than $250. They may have paid that much to the Lawyer already? I'm surprised they just didn't forward it to an outsourcing agency, who would have then engaged the services of a North American collection agency. Chase Visa also seemed to think this was an unjustified charge, so that's another factor to consider.

In any case, you're left to deal with this situation. A few suggestions and thoughts for consideration.....

• To resolve the car rental issue, you might try contacting the Ombudsman at Conde Nast Traveller - ombudsman@cntraveler.com (there's no guarantee h/she will be able to obtain a satisfactory resolution on your behalf, but it's worth a try).
• On future car rentals, be sure to have your camera at hand as it's easier to prove your case of "no damage at time of rental" if you can back that up with photographs.
• On future car rentals, paying for the top level CDW is worth the cost (IMO). Credit card rental insurance is often provided by firms other than the credit card company, and the terms and exclusions can be dreadfully complicated, even for a Lawyer. I find that buying the best CDW package is better for peace-of-mind but also a lack of the type of hassles you're experiencing in this case. I learned the value of this practice during a rental in the U.K. The vehicle I was using sustained very similar damage to what you've described. I had paid for the top level CDW, so I just walked away and there were no problems whatsoever.
• Note that for driving in Italy, each driver on the rental form also requires the compulsory International Driver's Permit, which is used in conjunction with your home D.L. These can be obtained from any AAA office for a small fee, and are valid for one year. You can also be fined on-the-spot for failing to produce an I.D.P. There are other potentially expensive caveats when using trains and other public transit in Italy, so you might want to do some research on that prior to future trips.

Your experiences in the Paris Metro sound a bit unusual, as I've never heard of anyone being "roughed up" for a ticket issue. However it is a well known fact that passengers must retain tickets until they exit the Metro, or fines may result. Here's an excerpt from the RS Paris guidebook: "Insert your ticket in the automatic turnstile, pass through, reclaim your ticket and keep it until you exit the system (some stations require you to pass your ticket through a turnstile to exit). Fare inspectors regularly check for cheaters and accept absolutely no excuses, so keep that ticket!

For future reference, I would highly recommend that you refer to guidebooks for whichever countries you'll be visiting as they can save travellers some money and a lot of aggravation.

As others have mentioned, your experiences with the car rental are a compelling reason to use the excellent public transit systems in Europe as much as possible.

Good luck!

Call Chase again. Normally you are NOT required to waive CDG to get credit card coverage if it is required in the country, as in Italy. You would have to decline super CDW. MasterCard now does cover Italy (but still not Ireland).

OP: surrender to the thieves and it just makes it harder for the next guy.

Just write a letter to the Italian lawyer and tell him to come to sue you in the US or otherwise tell him to f---- off.
Write it in English and I'll translate it into Italian for you. It's just an intimidatory letter to see if you buckle under the pressure and pay.
He's not going to try again.

"surrender to the thieves and it just makes it harder for the next guy."

"It's just an intimidatory letter to see if you buckle under the pressure and pay."

Exactly right Tom and Roberto.

You aren't breaking any law and there is no judgment against you. It is intimidation pure and simple. They are bottom-feeders, they count on people who are easily intimidated and pay up... Laughing all the way to the bank.

If this is a shake-down, the Lawyer may or may not be aware of it. He may have simply been retained by the car rental firm to collect debts, and may not have much knowledge of the damage to the vehicle. There could be a number of explanations for this scenario.