TZL Siena

I would recommend contacting the hotel. They have probably seen this before.

The charge is legit, you agreed to pay 35 € any time the rental company must tell cops who was driving that car on that day. It seems strange that cops keep on making the same question when the plate number and not your name should have been put in the white list. I'd ask the hotel if something similar has ever happened before.

drove into the TZL zone, were ticketed and paid ticket within 5 days

You were ticketed by whom? I thought ZTL fines were automatic and came in the mail, how could you pay within five days?

The ticket came from the rental company.

You have only paid the fees of the rental agency, not the fines. They are yet-to-come as tickets from the city. Get the hotel involved ASAP.

Thanks for your replies. I have already contacted the Hotel.

This is very interesting as that is exactly what we are planning to do! Maybe we will just park outside the walls and walk in!

This is very interesting as that is exactly what we are planning to do! Maybe we will just park outside the walls and walk in!

I think there are some unknowns in this story. The hotel has to register the tag of the car with the city because there is an automated camera system. I think there has been a misunderstanding somewhere along the line.

They mentioned the permit was for one hour each trip I wonder if the time restriction has something to do with the situation. They went into the ZTL 2 times a day for 5 days. I don't understand why. If staying in the city, at most you should enter once to drop off luggage and once to retrieve it at the end of the trip. If for some reason (mobility issues for instance), then different arrangements should have been made IMO.

When we travel in Europe, we don't drive in big cities. We stay nearby and commute in if we have a car or we stay in the city without having a car.

One should be able to count on people doing what they have agreed to do. The hotel should have handled the registration properly, and the city should have gotten the vehicle onto the authorized-vehicle list (or whatever the procedure is). For good or for ill, my mind doesn't assume all will go to plan. My thought process is more typically, "What could go wrong?" And here we have one answer to that question. It would be safer to make other arrangements for the car, though I realize that might be less than practical in some cases.

Some time ago I received a letter from a US car-rental agency, advising that my credit card had been charged a fine and an administrative fee for failure to pay the toll on a local road. But I had merely followed the temporary signs on the road routing traffic around the toll gates because of some sort of road repair. I called the car-rental company and explained the situation, and the charge was reversed. Polite contact with the Italian car-rental agency may produce results with respect to the administrative fees, though I suspect some sort of documentation will be needed. It is worth trying.

We rented from Sixt, stayed in a hotel in Sienna within the TLZ zone as well. We have received 5 tickets (3) in Sienna for driving within the TLZ zone. We followed the GPS exclusively and can recollect turning around to get out of the TLZ and having to remain on it because there was no way to turn around. We have received fees from Sixt and await official tickets via post according to Sixt. We estimate the cost to be >$750.00. We have asked for some consideration but Sixt continues to just demand the money. I would NOT rent a car and drive in Italy. We unfortunately will probably not return to Italy because of this experience.

Darlene, it's not clear what GPS has to do with it. If you accidentally strike and kill a pedestrian, does being on a GPS route mean it's not your fault? ZTLs are discussed at least weekly on this newsboard, and I presume on others. As cities like New York begin to contemplate Congestion Charges, Americans may finally begin to realize that sitting in a driver's seat does not confer divine rights.

We followed the GPS exclusively and can recollect turning around to get out of the TLZ and having to remain on it because there was no way to turn around.

For those considering driving in Italy, a GPS can be helpful, but just like in the States, it can sometimes lead you astray. We had GPS and tried to find the stadium parking lot. It's very hard to see and GPS kept telling us where it was, but we just couldn't see it. There was a ZTL entance directly across fro the stadium. Fortunately it was well marked and we easily avoided entering it.

We have received fees from Sixt and await official tickets via post according to Sixt. We estimate the cost to be >$750.00. We have asked for some consideration but Sixt continues to just demand the money.

Information regarding ZTLs, including fines is readily available. There are plenty of maps showing ZTLs. ZTLs are well marked. On what grounds do you think you should be granted consideration? I don't know of any entity which gives discounts for multiple infractions.

I would NOT rent a car and drive in Italy.

I think for you, that's a good decision. However, every year thousands of Americans have a wonderful time exploring Italy by car. By observing simple and well known restrictions, they avoid citations and fines.

We unfortunately will probably not return to Italy because of this experience.

Why blame Italy for your mistake?

After a more thorough examination of the correspondence from Sixt, I see that the first invoice is from the date when we were ticketed for going through the TZL zone. Therefore, that administration fee, while absurd, is correct. But the second invoice states that we left the TZL zone an hour later that we actual did. Since we were on a tight schedule having to drive back to Florence, return the car and catch a train, I know this time is incorrect. Thankfully the wonderful staff at Palazzo Ravizza is helping me with this.

Darlene,
I love Italy. We met such nice people and ate great food as we explored the countryside and cities of this beautiful country. Travelling is a journey that sometimes things don't turn out as planned. Don't give up on Italy.

Still think it's TZL instead of ZTL after all the discussion.

Fully explained here:

http://driventoit.blogspot.com/

The rules are there to be understood. Those who don't bother and get fines are responsible.

"I will contact the car rental company as well as my credit card company."

Why?

ZTLs are clearly marked, and it is standard procedure for rental agencies to charge a fee for providing driver information to the authorities. The real heavy fines come later, usually in about a year.

OP, the correct acronym is Zona Traffico Limitato – ZTL, not TZL

I don't know of any entity which gives discounts for multiple infractions.

Years ago an Italian Judge consolidated many fines into one, but:

1. the guy hired a lawyer who wrote a proper appeal in Italian
2. it happened in Florence before they installed the bi-lingual signs with the red/green lights

I know there are lots of new signs to pay attention to while driving anywhere, but being familiar with them where you drive is your responsibility.

For anyone's future reference, below is a Wikipedia link to information about ZTLs and why they are where they are. Be sure to scroll down to look at the variety of signs in the Gallery.

And it wouldn't hurt to do a Google Images search for ztl. You'll see even more there and be able to choose images from specific cities.

Zona a traffico limitato

Fortunately, we didn't encounter any ZTLs when we drove in Northern Italy. I honestly don't remember if that was from knowledge or simple dumb luck.

I realize the person driving the car is ultimately responsible. I also realize we should have read more about driving in Italy. It is frustrating to get charges in dribs and drabs and encounter an unexpected expense. We read it was safe and recommended to visit Tuscany towns to rent a car. We had a driver in Sorrento area-much better in my opinion.

Anyone who familiarized him/herself with international road signs, in use in Europe, would have no reason to get a ZTL fine.

A round sign with white background and red border, like the one pictured here means NO MOTOR VEHICLES ALLOWED.

In the case of a ZTL, below the sign there is a panel that explains the exception to the prohibition (basically emergency vehicles, residents with authorization, delivery trucks at certain hours). If one sees that sign, one should stay out of it, and park outside. There will be no chance of getting a ticket.

To me the biggest danger in Italy is the speed tickets. I read there are almost 40,000 speed cameras (and counting) installed throughout Italian roads, and they automatically fire a ticket to cars exceeding the speed limit by 5km/h or more (3 mph above the speed limit). I know of no US State where they give you a ticket for exceeding the limit by just 3 mph, and basically everybody in America speeds by at least 5 or 10 mph. I don’t know how to escape those. The Waze and other navigator apps warn you of the fixed cameras, but there are also the mobile cameras aboard patrol cars, so good luck.