Trip with BIG family

What time of year?

sorry! Summer, 2018. Like the first 2 weeks of June or so...

Kim

We stayed in a small mountain village a few years ago, Sorino nel Cimino a few years ago. I believe it was about 20min from Orvieto, you could get the train to Florence or Rome from there. I think it was about an hour on the train to either place. There were a couple of hotels & it is off the beaten track.

If you want a bigger town, try Sienna or Assisi. We stayed in Sienna & it is a place I want to go back to. Assisi we only did a day trip, very nice little town.

Thanks,

Mary

People's definitions of "small cute town" vary widely. I wouldn't base myself in what I consider a "small town" unless I planned to have a rental car (multiple in your case), because public transportation in and out of such places tends to be infrequent, and there aren't a lot of local activities to keep the non-loungers entertained.

The historic districts of some fair-sized cities feel rather like small towns, which might be a workable compromise. I haven't been to Verona (which I realize is very touristy), but it might be worth checking out. In that same area you have Vicenza, which has a very handsome old quarter with a nice pedestrian street and a number of Palladian landmarks. Vicenza is on the rail line running to Verona (to the west) and Padua/Venice (to the east). It would be a decent base for day-trips by train, and I found it to have a nice, not-too-hectic atmosphere when I visited during July 2015.

One thing you may want to be conscious of is the terrain of your base city, since yours will be a multi-generational group. Assisi is lovely, but I remember a good bit of uphill walking there.

When you begin to get some ideas, I suggest using the Deutsche Bahn website to check travel time by train to surrounding potential day-trip destinations. The DB site is a bit easier to use during the planning phase than TrenItalia, though it will not show you ticket prices.

To see what destinations you can reach by bus, you can play around with Rome2Rio. It's not totally reliable (and the prices are often pretty far off), but it will give you an idea as to whether a particular place is going to be too much of a challenge.

But your group is large enough that hiring a couple of drivers with vans could be reasonably affordable, which would free you from the tyranny of train and bus schedules.

Oh I am glad you said Verona I was just thinking that! Is it pretty flat there? Yes, you are right, not too small a town because we want things to do. And being on rail transport is ideal as I much prefer that over driving...

It;s ok if Verona is touristy, they have never been anywhere so I think they would be fine with that. :) Plus maybe we could sneak to Venezia for a day... :)

Thanks!!

You could stay even closer to Venezia, Padova is about 25 minutes away by train. The Valle del Prato area is away from congestion but still in the city, near the tram and bus routes. Connections to Ferrara, Ravenna, and other beautiful towns are frequent. Prices in Padova are much lower than Venezia.

The beautiful walled town of Este is nearby as well.

Google some photos and see what you like.

Kim,
Keep in mind, it takes a lot of time to get 14 people to agree each day on what they want to see and what time the day should start. What two people can see in an 8 hour day will probably take 10 or 12 hours with 14 people. Make sure you have a good understanding with everyone on what are the "must sees" and what time everyone will be up and start the day. Hopefully someone in your party will have traveled a lot and can act as a leader (not dictator) and make decisions when a decision needs to be made. I find traveling to be very stressful if everyone is fighting on what they want to see. Try and get everyone will agree to a "no grump" policy. Just a suggestion.

We would likely start in Germany, probably Munich (maybe 4-5 nights),
just because it's easy and we can day trip I think (though we have
been). Then to Italy since they want to do Rome (3 nights?) and then i
was thinking another 5 nights or so somewhere else in the country....
ideally a small cute town where we can day trip from, and
brother-in-law has visions of just wandered around piazzas, bakeries,
etc...

Some random thoughts here, Kim...

I'm curious about the choice of Munich versus, say, spend all 12-13 nights or so in Italy? 'Easy' and ability to day trip can apply to from any number of Italian locations. As this trip is in their honor, have your parents weighed in with any 'dream' cities? I'm also curious about their mobility, and exactly how diverse the ages will be of your group? Any younger children involved?

That said, I would add more time to Rome as by the time you subtract your transport hours from another location, 3 nights will only give you 2.5 or less days. There is a LOT to do in that one so I'd flip those 5 nights in a smaller city/town (Orvieto? Vicenza? Florence, even?) with the larger. You can wander piazzas and whatnot just as well there as anywhere else, and there will be a broader range of activities to choose from for a variety of interests.

Moving 14 around is going to be a challenge: it's nearly the maximum or even over the size of group (12-15) that better day-tour companies manage. I'd be cautious of trying to do everything together ALL the time, and appoint different members of your family to organize just a few activities you do try to do as a group. Not everyone may want to get up at the same time every morning, some may rather shop than go see another museum or ruin, etc.

An agriturismo would be nice but they usually do require transport to/from towns and train/bus stations, and you may want to be within easier reach of your rooms for a quick nap, to retrieve forgotten items, etc. I think you're also going to want to choose an accommodation which provides an end-of-day gathering spot: courtyard or terrace. We've stayed in any number of Italian hotels within towns/cities with nice bar/terrace/courtyard areas so I know that's possible, and you'll probably get some suggestions here on the forum.

Meals are going to require some careful planning/advance reservations if eating together as a group your size will be difficult to accommodate on the fly.

Whatever you do, plan to end up near an international airport to eliminate any departure-day snags.

I think this is the one time I'd actually take a cruise, because trying to get 14 people on the same page would be Hell, IMO. Or choose two big cities and tell people ahead of time that you are not responsible for their entertainment every minute of every day. On a cruise or in a city, there is much to do and you can get away from them if you need to do so. I believe there have been other posts on how difficult it is to keep everyone happy when one person in an extended family is planning it all. Maybe a Rick Steves tour of Italy would be best for you all. Good luck with this. It is wonderful in theory. Wray

Wray is absolutely right. A cruise is the answer. Lots to keep everyone amused on board and you can plan your own shore excursions for the "gang". Or go on the ship's excursions should that be someone's preference. There would be no grumbling about restaurants or hotel rooms and as the family planner you could relax and let them all do their thing. The maitre d' in the dining room would arrange for all 14 of you to be seated at the same table, which restaurants in German or Italian small towns would be hard put to do. You only have to find a cruise on sea or river that excites the troops. Good luck.

After my friend's 60th birthday weekend, there was a week-long extension with a core group of seven people traveling together on day trips, and we split up in towns of 5000 people or less due to different interests! If you pull this off, you should get a medal and a parade.

If you don't normally cruise, that may not be right for the group. The RS tour sounds like a great idea - your group would be about half of the total group size, the logistics from city to city are handled for you, as well as some meals, and there is still plenty of time for your group to go off together or to break into smaller units. If you can't find a tour that covers everything, you could choose a shorter one and spend some time in, say, Germany on your own.

And it would be a vacation for you, too.

Yes all good points!! :)

Some background - we spend a week each summer all together at a house on the beach so we are used to being together. Yes this is longer and Europe, so will be different...

We thought about a cruise - we have also all cruised together - and talked about it - my family did a Med cruise a few years ago. But they want to really get in and see the sights, which is hard to do from a cruise, especially when my folks are not super mobile. It is all of their first time to Europe - my family will have been 4-5 times by this trip, so I would definitely be the leader. Everyone knows that and is ok with it. Although I know it will be challenging. :)

If we can pull this off, my vision would be maybe renting 2 vrbos nearby each other and splitting that way, since finding places for 14 is about impossible. I figure we would have an activity of the day in the morning that we would do together, then people could do whatever they wanted. We have also done Disneyworld together and I am the militant kind of get-up-and-get-there early one, and they all did well. :) haha. But we won't try to move as a group the whole day, that would be a nightmare.

We would probably split for meals often since you are right, too big a group. I think we would treat it sort of as we are together, but not totally together. But they need me to sort of help with the logistics since they are not too sure about how they would navigate in a foreign country. But I know once we get there they would be fine with it. My parents would probably do the major sites they want, and then spend a lot of time chilling in a piazza. My BIL is always on the go, so he would likely set off exploring. My folks would be about 70 at the time of the trip, but not in great traveling shape. The 6 kids will range from 16-6.

Yes, I do hear all of the warnings and I am heeding them. :) I don;t have a vision like it will be all rosy, I know it will be tough. But I think we will be ok because we will be ok to split up a lot, like if we were on a cruise.

Good points also about making Rome longer. Shoot some other things too but I can't remember!

Funny you say Padua, my friend is from there. :) Also, Germany has to be there since that and Rome are my dads must sees, and this is likely the only trip. My brother really wants to visit Germany. My brother in law really wants Italy, and many people want Rome (we are catholic, so the Vatican is a must for them).

Ok more later! Thanks for the help and keep the suggestions coming. Thanks!!!

My random thoughts:

Munich seems an odd add-on
I would rather use those days for more time in Italy. To give 5 days to Munich and only 3 to Rome seems misguided.

Unless you will have multiple rental cars an agristristmo is a bad idea. With such a large group even a smaller town may not be the best choice. Keep in mind there are 14 of you and each will have different interests. What is an large city in Italy if a tourism based city does not always feel like a big city and will give you day trip / transport options to leave if you desire to.
For me Rome for longer and then go to Florence, it is easy to get to from Rome and from a base in Florence there is much to see and do with day trips to different areas depending on the groups interest some of you could do one thing while some do another.
Maybe stay in the hills on the other side of the Arno river in Florence, called the "Oltrarno" this way you are not right in the center of a busy center but still a 5 minute walk away. It feels like beautiful countryside in this area.
Many reason I say Florence is the transportation and day trip options from there will be better than anywhere else.

14 people in one place is not impossible if you rent a villa. We stayed here in Umbria last summer and the place was plenty big enough for 14 or more. It was fabulous, but the best part is it was part of the town of San Gemini, so you could walk out for coffee or dinner. The very best meals we had though were the ones at the villa by the cook-for-hire. The downside is that it was not on a rail line, so driving was necessary but easy. It's in the centre of Italy, not the cliffs of Amalfi.

There are plenty of good villa rental agencies with places like this, though often villas are out in the country (not my preference.) Having lots of space to relax and eat together, and a pool, makes for a terrific family vacation. We did some awesome day trips and some great days at "home." The agency we used is Tuscany Now, and we were very satisfied.

I don't think I would move a group that size. I'd pick one place and settle in for up to two weeks. There's always lots to see and do in an easy radius without packing up, traveling and unpacking. If you really want to tour, I also suggest a Rick Steves' tour, maybe a My Way tour, to help you and everyone else relax and enjoy the trip.

Ah. So that explains Germany. Have to make Papa happy so Munich it shall be.
2 seniors with some mobility limits, 6 adults and 6 young people of various ages... you are a brave soul!

Munich, Florence and Rome, say? Florence is more compact and a completely different animal than Rome so it wouldn't be like seeing two very similar Italian cities. You're going to kill a chunk of a day in transport from Munich so I'd give that one more than 2 full days/3 nights. You'll want to have enough time to explore the city itself plus allow for one or two day trips. And absolutely add time to Rome if your family's faith is an important part of the picture. But shoot, I'm not Catholic or even religious and have yet to run out of things to see there!

You haven't mentioned what sorts of things your family is interested in (other than the Vatican) but what those are and some good ways of skinning those cats might be another couple of threads once your itinerary is sorted?

I don't think the idea of a group activity in the morning, then people going their own way, fits very well with staying in a small or medium-sized town for an extended period. It can easily take 60 to 90 minutes (or longer) to reach a day-trip destination and there can be significant gaps in bus or train schedules (2 or 3 hours when nothing is moving in the return direction). If people are ready to head "home" (or to a second destination) at different times, will all of them be comfortable getting to the bus or train station and buying tickets without hand-holding by you? As you know, trains and buses are not hard to manage, but it's something a lot of first-timers seem really concerned about. I'm pretty sure ticket-buying concerns are behind the large number of first-time posters who show up here, asking about rail passes.

If you have time (I kind of think you don't), a couple of nights in Orvieto on the way from Rome to your other major Italian base would be fun for all. It has a lot to see yet retains a sort of small-town vibe (albeit with many tourists, most of them Italian). But to me, it's not a great base for lots of day trips in the same way that Florence or one of the cities along the Verona-Venice rail line would be. It just takes a bit too long to get to many places you might want to see, and every trip begins and ends with a funicular ride, adding significantly to the round-trip transit time.

Another thing I'm not sure of is how you're going to communicate among yourselves without running up exorbitant cell-phone charges on your US accounts. Unless you're all lucky enough to have T-Mobile service, this is something you'll need to spend some time figuring out in advance. With two countries on the itinerary, local SIMs may not be a great solution. It can take awhile (sometimes two trips to the SIM vendor's shop) to get local SIMs working, and you'd need to do it twice.

Since you mentioned the importance of the Vatican to your group, be aware that current visitors who do not take one of the super-early (before public opening) tours are reporting a miserable experience due to unbelievable crowding in the Sistine Chapel and Vatican Museums. Anyone not content to see just St. Peter's Basilica will need to budget for a tour that provides early access, at a cost (I think) of at least 100 euros per person. Those tours need to be booked ahead of time. The tours of the underground area of the Colosseum also fill early, so if any of your group want to see the Colosseum underground, that needs to be reserved ahead of time. In addition, the Borghese Gallery requires a pre-purchased timed ticket that should be arranged from the US if at all possible.

Dream big Kim! I think you can do this with as much lead time as you have. We spent 10 days in a hill town this summer and part of the time I was looking for agriturismo possibilities that might satisfy our immediate family of 8 for an upcoming anniversary trip. Take a look at http://www.lastriscia.com/en/ which is an agriturismo within walking distance of Arezzo. The town we stayed in this summer was a 20 minute local train ride from Arezzo. What I like for an outskirts of Arezzo base for your family is that the city is very walkable up a exceedingly cobblestoned series of streets with multiple piazzas, shops, restaurants, museums and vistas. Arezzo is a train hub for the fast and direct trains to Rome to the south and Florence to the north. It looks like La Striscia rates include breakfast and dinners are optional at their facility, tucked in the vineyards on the outskirts of Arezzo.

OK, Kim, here ya go.

Rent Pallazo Santi Terzi in San Gemini, Umbria (http://www.tuscanynowandmore.com/villas/santi-terzi/) Plenty of bedrooms and bathrooms for 14. We had 8 there the first time and 12 the last time. It is right in the town. A 30 second walk to the main piazza and bar for morning coffee and hot chocolate (assuming you have kids with you). There is also a cooking class in town. Send me a personal message if you want more info.

We next went north to a villa near San Gimignano, all 12 of us. Villa Arnilu. Google that too.

We did day trips out of both locations. Rome and Florence included (by train). Details upon request. I am happy to give you more detailed info.

I echo the Arezzo suggestion. It is a charming town with plenty of history, reasonable cost, good food, and decent train/bus connections to destinations such as Florence, Siena, Sansepolcro, and Cortona. Because it is not a big name tourist destination, prices can be much lower than some other destinations that have been named. I don't think you would have difficulty finding accommodations for your group - just be certain when renting thru Airbnb or Vrbo that you know whether steps are needing to be climbed in order to reach the flat. I have found stairways in Arezzo older buildings to be quite steep and for the mobility challenged, that could present a serious barrier.

Arezzo is quite hilly apart from the main piazza.

Sounds like this is something you enjoy and are good at, and I am sure you'll have a great scrapbook to share.

I agree that Arezzo isn't exactly flat. If that isn't a big deal, you might like to know that it has a really big antique fair the first Sunday of each month and the preceding Saturday. I stumbled on the market in the course of a day trip there and really enjoyed myself. However, it might do not-nice things to the cost of lodging in the city on the affected weekend.

Hi Kim,
why not consider a RS My Way Tour. All of the hotels and transportation will be handled for you, and the RS escort can help you with planning your activities for the day. With such a large group and many different interests it might help to have this bit of help during the trip.

I'll be the dissenter for booking a regular RS or My Way tour. My argument against would be that the elder two are "not in great traveling shape" and "are not super mobile." Given that, I think their adult children are in a better position to monitor and manage their parent's fatigue and ability levels, and help manage their luggage during the trip, if needed. They may absolutely require accommodations with lifts versus 4-5 flights of stairs, as the RS tour conditions page states that clients must be able to manage.

Tours also are 'whirlwind' with short stays in many locations and lots of "physically active" days. Just guessing here but Kim's plan may be limiting movement to longer stays in no more than 3 locations so as to go easy on the parents? A lot of moving around could be tiring for them. And maybe their family just prefers longer versus shorter stays (as my husband and I do). Tours spend very little time in both of Dad's preferences - Germany (Munich) and Rome - and include a lot of other locations that may or may not be preferable. For instance, the Cinque Terre isn't a good fit with with mobility challenges. Just IMHO?

Excellent point, Kathy. I got caught up in the trip organizer's corner.

No argument from me that from the 'herding cats' perspective, a tour would otherwise be a great solution! :O)

yes for sure, "low logistics" as my dad says!

Well he heard us discussing so I talked a little with them about it this morning....he is worried about all of the logistics, mostly for my mom (though I think he uses her as a cover, hahaha). I explained that we could sort of do things at different paces, and I was happy just to do whatever they wanted because these are mostly all places I have been, so i don;t have must sees.... he said they will think about it! He was already planning on taking us all on a cruise for their 50th (and he pays, because he is generous like that) so he said he would be happy to chip in a good chunk of $. though first he will need to buy business class tickets for him and my mom because he big hangup is being trapped in a plane for so long. I am trying to talk them into flying to NYC (from FL), spending a few days, then going from there. They fly from FL to me in SF regularly so she knows she can handle 6 hours. I told her in business class it will be like a dream, no problem at all. So my guess is he pays those and then the rest of the $ to share costs.

We are leaning Munich-Verona-Rome... mainly because we can get a train from Munich- Verona (about 5.5 hours... pretty long but I think still worth it over flying) - can daytrip to Venice from there too. Then on to Rome, that is an easy ride.

It's still almost 2 years out, but the discussion has begun. :) So we will see where it goes! I do appreciate everyone's suggestions, very helpful!! :)

And I don;t mind playing tour guide, I almost prefer the planning and guiding to the experiencing. :)

Kim

You're doing a great job with this so far: kudos to you!

You're a long way out yet but another important little detail is to make sure your parents have good medical travel insurance that will cover them abroad (including medivac back to the States)? Actually all of you should have it (we never leave the country without it) but it's especially important for them.

Agreed! We always get insurance- I don't care so much about losing money on the vacation as something catastrophic happening while we are there! My parents never took it out, but they are heading on a Panama Canal cruise next week and they got it this time and said they will from here on out. Whew!

Kim