Trenitalia Frecciarossa versus Italo trains

https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/30006269/trainseatplans/Frecciarossa-4class-from-June-2012.pdf

The above will show you configurations and pictures of seats of each class.

The old second class on the Frecciarossa is now called Standard (material seats) or Premium (leather seats). There are 4 seats in a row either way (with the aisle in the center), so no difference in size or comfort.

The Business class (formerly 1st class) is a step above, in the sense that you have 3 seats in a row (with aisle in the middle), therefore seats are a bit wider.

The executive class is even more luxury (just 2 in a row with large aisle in the middle), but at a price. It's perfect if you hate to talk to or even be near other people because the person sitting closest to you sits far across the aisle.

Frecciargento has only 1st class (3 in a row) or 2nd class (4 in a row). So the same difference between Standard and Business above.

If you travel on an airplane on economy class, then the Standard class will be more than adequate for your needs. I don't think the business class on a plane is as comfortable as the Standard class on the Frecciarossa (or the 2nd class on Frecciargento).

Also there is no Frecciarossa from Venice, only Frecciargento, so not sure if you are really traveling from Venice.
The Frecciarossa is the Freccia that travels only on high speed dedicated rail and that is present only in the corridor Naples-Rome-Florence-Bologna-Milan-Turin.
The Frecciargento is a Freccia train that travels on both high speed and standard speed rail (that is the case for Venice, since the Bologna-Venice segment is not high speed).
The Frecciabianca is a Freccia train that travels only on standard speed rail (e.g. Rome-Pisa-Genoa or Milano-Venice)

Thank you, Roberto---the seating diagrams are very helpful. We have sat in the cars with 2+1 seating before, and that is what we would want here. Four of us at a table for four and one in the single seat across the aisle.

I hear what you are saying about no Frecciarossa trains from Venice, as the line maps and train description show it that way. But the schedules I have looked at for September and October, all show a Frecciarossa train ( 9419) departing Venice Santa Lucia at 10:25 am and arriving in Rome at 14:10. The other trains are all Frecciargento.

Maybe I will just book the 11:25 Frecciargento in First and not have to worry about Premium versus Business class!

The two men in our group are 71 and 78 and are the ones with touchy backs. We fly to Europe in business class because of my husband's back, and his older brother and his wife fly in first. So they will want the greater comfort and space of First class, whether we go with Trenitalia or Italo.

Is it true that Italo is less likely to be affected by strikes?

Roberto. It appears the OP is correct and that she has not misread the trenitalia website. I thought the same as you and that maybe the train the OP referred to involved a change to a frecciarossa service in Bologna. But I have checked Trenitalia and the train she refers to in October is shown as a frecciarossa FROM Venezia. There is another one shown in the evening.

Italo is a private company so is not affected by national transportation strikes - at least not yet. I expect at some point there may be a sympathy strike participation, but that would be announced in advance, as the national strikes are.

Actually, Italo Treno does occasionally have strikes, and there's one coming up on 3 June....

http://www.summerinitaly.com/planning/strike.asp

Lola,

I've travelled in both first and second class in the Freccia trains and haven't noticed a huge difference between them in terms of "seat comfort*. As I normally travel solo, the seating arrangement is not a concern, but with your group that will probably be a factor. In the same situation I'd choose whichever departure time works best and buy first class seats if your budget will allow.

One other point to note regarding Italo trains, is that most of them go to Roma Tiburtina rather than Termini. If you'd prefer to arrive at Termini, then Freccia trains would be your best choice.

Where are you checking train information? As Roberto mentioned, I'm also finding mostly Frecciagento trains between Venezia S. Lucia and Roma Termini.

Let me reiterate.
There are no Frecciarossa in Venice.
The 9419 is a Frecciargento.
http://m.e656.net/orario/treno/9419.html

Roberto, The Frecciarossa to/from Venezia and Roma was just added a week or 10 days ago. I expect they did it to compete better with Italo. I doubt they sustain Frecciarossa speeds beyond Bologna, but it would be the better equipment.

Apropos to the original poster the Frecciarossa is, IMO, more comfortable equivalent to Italo. Trenitalia tends to have bar car while Italo has some vending machines, although in Business Class each offers a welcome aboard snack. One can always carry on food and beverage. Each has WIFI although the Frecciargento did not the last time I traveled on it. Be sure you know which station to arrive at in Roma. Italo tends to arrive at Tiburtina or Ostiense., although that is changing too. Not a problem to arrive at Tiburtina or Ostiense, just something you have to know and plan for.

I always look at both lines for price and schedule. If the price is close -- and it often is -- I go for the schedule I like best.

Roberto, reiterate away all you like.

The Trenitalia website states for any date I pull up in October that it is a frecciarossa service NOT a frecciargento service and I do know how to correctly read their website.

And although my Italian is not great I believe the following also says that the frecciarossa is now going to Venice:

http://www.guidaviaggi.it/notizie/171669/il-frecciarossa-arriva-venezia-dicembre-anche-bari/

And thank you Laurel for also explaining the change, rather than dismissing the OP so readily.

The 10:25 Trenitalia train from Venice I am looking at for October clearly indicates it is a Frecciarossa and offers four classes of service. That is what prompted my question---If we want this train I need to decide on which class.

I assume it is Frecciarossa equipment which travels at slower speeds than usual because of the track. If you ( Roberto) look at the schedule for October you will see it truly is a Frecciarossa. But the travel time is the same as the Frecciargento trains.

I arm waiting for the others to weigh in on the choice. One person has a clear preference for the Italo train, but the timing is not as good, and the arrival station is Tiburtina, not Termini. But we will most likely take taxis (two) to our lodgings regardless of the station.

Ken, thanks for pointing out the Italo strike. My reference was to national transportation lines (like Trenitalia), where private lines are not affected.

Now that you mention it, I wonder if Italo will continue some runs during the strike, as Trenitalia does, or if it will be a total shutdown? (If it actually happens.)

Lola, if the extra money is no problem go with Business class on the frecciarossa. The seating is only 3 across the train (2 on one side and a single seat on the other) compared to four across in premium. The seating in business is very comfortable, can be electronically reclined/adjusted etc.

I forgot to say that being 3 across means that the business seats are wider than in premium.

I guess they are starting the Frecciarossa on the non high speed lines next month.
Trenitalia figured out another way to get more money out of travelers since the Frecciarossa has fewer seats at the lower Standard price.
I miss the old times when you could travel from Florence to Rome in one hour and 20 min (12 less than today) for less than half the price as today.

I prefer the Italo service, but I don't travel in the rarified air of the upper classes so have never compared the higher grades.

There is a huge jump between FrecciaRossa and the two lower grades using conventional equipment. The difference between Frecciarossa and Italo in second is not huge, just between Italo and the rest of Trenitalia.

I'm sure that whichever you choose it will be fine.

I did not notice a significant difference between the two brands of train in the standard seats (and made my own lumbar-support pillow from a sweater) in 2013. Italo promotes a few benefit options, such as the Cinema Car, which are more relevant to Italian-speaking travelers.

Trenitalia is schedule to debut new Frecciarossa 1000 train sets from June 14; look for news at that time, or closer to your travel date. As noted above, Frecciarossa direct departure #9419 is shown at 10:25 on Trenitalia's October schedule, as well as one later in the afternoon (nothing for sale, yet). Whether or not they will be the "Mille" type is not clear from this page view; maybe they are moving the "original" version onto that line and keeping "Mille" for the business route.

Laura. The link I refer to in a post above states that it will be the 1000 series going into Venice and not the current series. From my understanding the power system on the current Frecciarossa 500s is incompatible with operations on standard (non high speed lines). But I will stand corrected if anyone knows otherwise.

It's not what I'm reading.

Apparently the Frecciarossa ETR 500 were used only on high speed rail because they were more expensive and therefore they were more efficiently utilized in high speed segments where they could reach speeds of 360 km/h.

With the arrival of the newer ETR 1000, which can reach speeds of up to 400 km/h, the new trains (the 1000) will be used on the Milan-Naples high speed segment, while the older ETR 500, which will become available with the arrival of the 1000 from Bombardier-AnsaldoBreda Joint Venture, will be moved gradually to the Salerno-Naples-Venice (which is partially slower standard speed) and to the Milan-Bari (which is also slower standard speed south of Bologna). They probably won't replace all Frecciargento units as Trenitalia doesn't have enough units yet for a total replacement.

To me this is another marketing ploy to increase revenue. Basically the time of travel remains the same (since the line is still standard speed) but they charge you more because you now sit on a leather seat. They also removed all slower trains on long distances so that you are forced to pay top dollars. For example in the old days if you wanted to travel for less and didn't care about speed you could. Now that is not possible except within the same region where you have the option of Frecciabianca or Regionali. But if you want to go from Florence to Bologna or Florence to Roma, you have far fewer options other than the Freccia.