trains in Italy- best value a Eurorail pass?

A railpass is generally a waste of money for Italy.

Check Trenitalia.com for schedules and prices. You can buy super-economy tickets (no changes, no refunds) up to 120 days ahead, Firenze Santa Maria Novella to Roma Termini is around €30, Venezia Santa Lucia to Firenze SMN is probably about the same. Other trips may involve regionale trains, which can be bought on the day of travel or up to 7 days ahead online, but these will have no discounts in either case.

You have to do the math but I think point-to-point tickets will be cheaper, especially since you need to buy a reservation for fast trains with the pass, but the reservation is included in the a Trenitalia price.

This is a very good reference for information about rail passes in Italy:

http://www.seat61.com/Italy-trains.htm#Railpasses_for_Italy

He explains better that I ever could why passes are almost never a benefit in Italy. A few key points?

• "Passholders must make a reservation and pay a €10 reservation fee for virtually every fast train they take, and this must be factored into the cost."

• "Trenitalia's (Or Italo; another good rail source between the larger cities, and which does not accept passes) cheap advance-purchase fares from just €9.90, €19.90 or €29.90 blow railpasses out of the water price-wise if you are prepared to book in advance on a no-refunds, no-changes-to-travel-plans basis."

• "So passes are only worth considering if you demand the flexibility to go as you please. Even here, you need to be doing the equivalent of Rome-Venice every pass travel day to make them pay. If you are only doing Rome-Florence one day, then Florence-Venice a few days later, it's cheaper to buy fully flexible base-price tickets at the station than to use a pass once the reservation fee is added."

And there's more helpful advice in the piece. Man in 61 is a trusted authority on European train travel, and I can vouch for the fact that the math on a pass hasn't worked for us, and not for my European friends who travel Italy more frequently than we have. Tickets for shorter journeys on regionale trains (e.g. Florence to Pisa) are very inexpensive to begin with so a pass is really of little use there.

More useful info on this RS page if you haven't read it already:

https://www.ricksteves.com/travel-tips/transportation/trains/italy-rail-passes

As you already have a set itinerary - and so flexibility isn't a concern - I'd just purchase economy or super-economy, 2nd-class fast-train tickets when they become available, and tickets for any journeys on regionale or intercity trains the day of your departure for those locations.

tm,

Rail passes are generally not the most cost effective value for travel in Italy. Keep in mind that these don't include the cost of the reservations which are compulsory on the express trains such as the Freccia high speed and Intercity, so you'd have to pay separately out-of-pocket for those. Even with a Rail pass, don't be caught without a valid reservation for the train you're riding on, or you'll be subject to hefty fines which will be collected on the spot!

If you're willing to commit to a specific departure on each of the routes you're travelling, the cheapest option is to buy Super Economy tickets as soon as those become available (generally 120 days from the travel date). However, one important point to note is that the Super Economy tickets are non-refundable and non-changeable once booked, so be sure of your travel details before you hit the "buy" button. The slightly more expensive Economy tickets are a bit more flexible. There are limited numbers of the cheap tickets available on each train. Once the quota for Super Economy is sold out, the pricing moves up to Economy and once those are gone, up to Base fare which is the highest tier and the same price you'd pay if you bought the day of travel.

One other important point to note is that when travelling on Regionale trains using locally purchased tickets (ie: from a Kiosk), you must validate these prior to boarding the train on the day of travel or once again, you may face hefty fines collected on the spot! The same applies to Bus or Metro tickets. Tickets for the express trains don't have to be validated.

After Milan, take the train to Venice, before Florence and CT (via Pisa), and finally the coastal train route to Rome. I think you will save some time and avoid a bit of backtracking.

Skip the rail passes. For my trip passes were more expensive and after doing the math, it was cheaper to purchase the super economy fares when the tickets first go on sale. Look at David's itinerary. Use Rome2rio to plan travel times.

David, thanks for the good tip on adjusting the order of the trip. I've already booked our accommodations so, though not impossible to change (just a pain to do so), I think I'll stick with the original itinerary. With the high speed train from Venice to Rome only taking about 4 hours of travel time, I thought that this was actually the best way to maximize time in beautiful cities and minimize travel time. It looked like CT to Rome was longer than 4 hours. I've had to judge by estimating train schedules that are currently up since I'm still way too early for the actual schedules.

Thanks everyone for the tips on the passes. I was hoping that the expense of reservations would be reduced by the amount of a day's pass, but without that, it certainly sounds like the pass isn't worthwhile. A bummer though- I liked the idea of having it all taken care of before I got on the plane!

one more question- If we buy a ticket at the counter to get from CT to Florence via Pisa, can we buy a single ticket if we want to detour in Pisa for a couple of hours? Or will this require a ticket from CT to Pisa and then another from Pisa to Florence? Wondering what the smart way to purchase that route will be. Thanks helpful community!

A few years ago we debated this same question. It is more expensive to use a rail pass versus point to point tickets but we opted for the pass and were glad that we did. The cost of the pass was still reasonable compared to other European countries and spending a little more money for convenience and flexibility was worth it to us. We had to buy reservations a few times. This was very simple, 5 to 10 euros, depending on the train type. You can easily buy the reservations the day before or day of your travel. We liked being able to just hop and off regional trains and not worry about buying or validating tickets. You only have to validate the pass the first time that you use it. We also could adjust our times as we travelled. We saved some money buy purchasing a rail pass for two people traveling together at all times. The convenience of one ticket for all trains and flexibility was well worth the expense. We mapped it out and would only have saved about fifty dollars. It really depends on your budget and how many train trips that you plan to take. We are going to Italy again in Fall of 2017 and plan to use a rail pass again. Have fun and safe travels!

If we buy a ticket at the counter to get from CT to Florence via Pisa,
can we buy a single ticket if we want to detour in Pisa for a couple
of hours? Or will this require a ticket from CT to Pisa and then
another from Pisa to Florence?

You will have to purchase one set of tickets for your journey from the CT to Pisa, and another set for your journey from Pisa to Florence. You can purchase both sets of tickets at one time on the day you depart the CT. The Trenitalia website is down right now so I can't check but I'm just guessing both journeys will be on regionale trains. If so, validate those tickets before boarding in the CT and in Pisa.

" I liked the idea of having it all taken care of before I got on the plane!"

You can still have it "all taken care of" before you get on the plane. Simply buy advance discounted tickets online and print them at home.

"If we buy a ticket at the counter to get from CT to Florence via Pisa, can we buy a single ticket if we want to detour in Pisa for a couple of hours? Or will this require a ticket from CT to Pisa and then another from Pisa to Florence?"

Theoretically it would be possible to buy a single ticket IF you were travelling on Regionale trains for the entire trip and IF you didn't spend too long visiting the Tower. It's important to know the "rules" of each type of train you'll be using. It's much easier to buy two separate tickets for each segment of that trip. That's a fairly short and inexpensive route. It's possible that on one segment of the trip from the Cinque Terre to Florence, you'll be using one of the express trains such as a Freccia or Intercity. You can easily buy tickets locally in the C.T. using the Kiosks in the stations or at a staffed ticket window.

One other point to note is that many cities in Italy (and elsewhere) have more than one rail station, so it's important to know which stations you'll be using at the time you buy tickets.

Theoretically it would be possible to buy a single ticket IF you were
travelling on Regionale trains for the entire trip and IF you didn't
spend too long visiting the Tower. It's important to know the "rules"
of each type of train you'll be using. It's much easier to buy two
separate tickets for each segment of that trip.

Right. It Is theoretically possible but as Ken stated, it's just much easier to purchase separate tickets so that you don't have to watch the clock - there are time limits on use of regionale tickets once they've been validated - or sort those individual rules for the different trains. IMHO, it's not worth the risk of overshooting the time limit when day-of-journey tickets for regionale trains are so inexpensive and easily purchased.

And if any part of your journey involves a fast train with seating/carriage assignments, you can't just hop off and take another at a different time on the same ticket unless you paid base price for it and so were able to change it without cost.

and if you want to know a lot about Italian trains .....

http://tim-parks.com/non-fiction/italian-ways-on-and-off-the-rails-from-milan-to-palermo/