train ticket recommendation

Don't waste your money on a Eurail pass. Do get your tickets through trenitalia.com.

I don't see the advantages of first class, especially on the Frecce trains you're looking for, but if you buy those tickets well in advance - let's say two months - the discounts are considerable. I have found the trenitalia website http://www.trenitalia.com/tcom-en easy to use and reliable. One thing though to pay attention to: you must use the Italian originals of the stations: Firenze S.M. Novella and Venezia S. Lucia.

Also, if you get a Eurail pass, you will still need to pay the 10 euro reservation fee per person for each of those fast trains. And the Pass is no good at all for the the trains between MXP and Milan. There are no trains to Bellagio, but the best way is a train to Varenna and then a ferry to Bellagio. Rail pass doesn't work for either of those.

I encourage First Class train travel in Italy when available. There's more room for people and luggage. But I still travel with only one carryon bag weighing 15 lbs. I buy my tickets in Italy and always ask for First Class. Even some Regionale trains will have a First Class car.

My First Class ticket saved me from a very determined Gypsy male stalker on a Regionale from Ancona (on the Adriatico) to Rome. He had seen me outside on the platform sitting with other passengers on benches in an Alcove a ways from the tracks. I noticed him stopping and looking at me. Next time I saw him he had followed me to what I thought was the First Class car and took a seat catty corner to me, staring at me.

I should have known, it's the same MO whether in Italy or in the flagship Target on State and Madison, or in the notorious Englewood hood where I live. The conductress came in and told us that the First Class car was directly behind the Engine and would we please follow her. He stayed behind and glared at me as I left.

My family in Italy always tries to get me to take the long distance buses, and many times I do, but when I lodge near the tracks as I like to do, it's easy to take the train. They feel better about the First Class tickets because that's how they travel too.

It's better in First Class, and I've traveled Second Class Reserve, and Third Class coach. I'll always go First Class, nicer cars, wider choice of seat arrangements, and more space.

I'll echo Ton and Michael: don't waste your money on a pass, use the Trenitalia website, and I don't see the need to spend extra for 1st class either. We've never had any problems traveling 2nd class in Italy, and the seating is plenty spacious enough.

http://www.trenitalia.com/tcom-en

As Sam noted, there is no train service to Bellagio but I think he confused Vernazza - which is in the Cinque Terre - with Varenna, from which you can take a ferry (we have). You can also ferry from Como. Here's some transport info from their tourism website:

http://www.bellagiolakecomo.com/bellagio-lake-como-italy/utility/getting-bellagio-0

For Milano Centrale to Florence (Firenze S.M. Novella station), also explore ticket prices on Italotreno as they often have some very nice prices for trips between a select number of cities:

http://www.italotreno.it/en

The only reason to purchase tickets in advance is to take advantage of economy/super economy prices for fast trains which may be available and which tend to sell out quickly. The risk is that the lowest-priced tickets are non-refundable so if you miss your train, you have to buy another ticket. This is really only a consideration when purchasing for a journey on day of arrival in Italy; a delayed flight can throw a wrench in a tight itinerary.

From Malpensa to Milano Centrale, take the Express train:
http://www.malpensaexpress.it/en/
http://www.trenord.it/en/the-lines/malpensa-express.aspx

Thanks Kathy, I just corrected that. But I am in good company since I caught Roberto getting them crossed once.

It's better in First Class, and I've traveled Second Class Reserve, and Third Class coach

It has been a very long time since I traveled Third Class with the goats and the sheeeeeeep.

i never see the need for First Class.

Haha! It's all too easy to do, Sam! I've scrambled a few myself!

Rob, one more note? If all or part of a journey involves a regionale train - which almost always applies to trips around the Cinque Terra (guessing that's why you have La Spezia on your list) - those tickets MUST be validated before getting on the train. Just stick them into the little machines which are usually, but not always, near the tracks to have them time-stamped. This is true for ANY train on which you do not have a seat assignment - including the Malpensa Express.

Never ever felt the need for first class travel. Second class is just fine. I have used first class once and that was because it was a reserved seat train, second class was full and I did not want to wait for the next train. Okay, I take it back, first class was worth it this time as I had just arrived from the US, was tired, and second class was full of middle school age kids. But, that was why, not because the seating was any better.

rob,

I agree with the others that a Rail Pass will not be the most cost effective solution for travel in Italy. If you're willing to commit to specific departures on the fast trains, you can buy discounted tickets that will provide considerable savings.

One thing that seems apparent from your proposed Itinerary is that you appear to be zig-zagging all over the place, which doesn't look like the most efficient method, and will likely cost more time and money than a more efficient route. If you could elaborate on your Itinerary, it would be easier to offer suggestions. How are you getting from Florence to La Spezia?

"We want the fastest trains and 1st class."

That won't be possible in all cases (more on that below). Regarding first class, if you want to pay about 50% more for first class, that's your choice of course. However keep in mind that the people in the second class cars will also have comfortable seating (on the fast trains) and will be arriving at exactly the same time.

The most "economical way" to buy tickets is to purchase tickets for the fast trains up to 120 days in advance. If you can get a Super Economy ticket, savings will be considerable. Even if you can just get an Economy ticket, these still provide good savings. I prefer to purchase tickets at www.capitainetrain.com as the website is very user friendly. One point to note is that the S.E. tickets are non-refundable and non-changeable, so choose carefully!

Regarding each of your rail trips....

• MXP to Milano Centrale - you'll be using the Malpensa Express, which is second class only as I recall, and the travel time is about 52 minutes. As mentioned previously, be sure to validate your ticket prior to boarding the train.
• Milano Centrale to Florence - are you planning to take this train immediately after arrival? If so, the usual recommendation on the forum is to buy your tickets when you arrive at the MXP rail station. That trip will be via Freccia high speed, but may not be the highest speed depending on which train you choose (there are three types of Freccia trains).
• La Spezia to Venice - That trip will involve different types of trains with changes, including probably a Regionale (which doesn't have reservations or first class).
• Venice to Bellagio - as you're probably aware, there is no rail service to Bellagio. You'll travel from Venice to Milano Centrale via Freccia high speed, and then transfer to a Regionale for the one hour trip to Varenna. When you arrive there, you'll walk down the hill to the Ferry dock and take the short 20 minute ride across to Bellagio.
• Bellagio to MXP - you'll take the Ferry back to Varenna, walk up the hill and take the Regionale to Milano Centrale, where you'll connect with the Malpensa Express. No fast trains on this route.

Thank you all for the replies. Yes I know we are zig zagging all over. That has to do with hotel reservations. Some hotels are free, but only available during specific windows, so I would rather zig zag and stay for free. Now I think we are looking at MXP to Milano Centrale, then on to Pisa. Pisa is closer to where we will be staying AND I can return the rental car on Sunday before training to cinque terre. The rest of the trip remains La Spezia (cinque terre) to Veniza, etc...
Thanks in advance for any additional input!