Train advice in Italy

Second class is certainly ok. They're much more comfortable than your average coach class airline seat.

Providing you know the date you want to travel for each leg, and are willing to commit to a fixed time and a nonrefundable ticket, there are substantial savings to be had if you book all of your train trips in advance, not just the ones you numbered. Even more so when multiplying by 4.

If you haven't travelled by train in Europe before, I highly recommend that you check out the Man in Seat 61 website.

You can use Loco if you find it easier. I have always just used the Trenitalia official website. But be aware that for Trenitalia you need to use the proper Italian place names ( Roma, Milano, Firenze etc). Zurich would be Zuerich hb.

I would purchase all of those now; hopefully there’s still some of the cheapest economy tickets left!

If you purchase tickets on-line and print them at home, you don’t need to validate the tickets. But all tickets purchased at the train station MUST be validated (time-stamped) by the machines at the station to avoid the hefty fines.

We always go 2nd class unless the sale price is close for 1st class. Either is fine.

jm,

A few thoughts on your questions.....

On the trains Venice - Florence and Florence - Rome trains you will have seat reservations, which will be provided with your tickets. These will have the Carrozza (coach no.) and Posti (seat no's.) shown on the ticket. Those trips will be on the Freccia or Italo high speed trains and reservations are compulsory.

For the Rome - Cinque Terre trip, you will again have compulsory reservations for those trains which require them. The final segment on the Cinque Terre Express is a Regionale, so no reservations are possible or required.

For the Cinque Terre - Milan trip, you'll likely be using an express train for at least part of that journey so again reservations will be included with your tickets.

The Milan - Zürich trip will probably use an express train (EuroCity?) for the Italian the trip into Switzerland so again reservations will be provided with the ticket.

You can buy tickets at the rail company websites (Trenitalia, Italo or SBB) or from resellers such as Trainline.com, Loco2 or others. Some of them may not sell tickets for Switzerland so you'll have to use SBB for those. I tend to prefer Trainline as they sell tickets for several of the rail networks in Italy and in other countries around Europe, so that provides one stop shopping. There may be a slight surcharge with some resellers, but I don't find that to be a problem.

If you haven't used trains in Italy before, a few important points to note.....

• Locally purchased tickets for Regionale trains MUST be validated (time & date stamp) prior to boarding the train on the day of travel or again hefty fines. The same applies for bus, metro or other transit tickets.
• tickets for the express / high speed trains are specific to train, date and departure time and can ONLY be used on the one train listed on the ticket. If you board the wrong train by mistake, you'll be subject to hefty fines which will be collected on the spot. Tickets for the express trains do not have to be validated.
• for the trips on the main high speed routes (Venice - Florence - Rome - Milan), you can use either Trenitalia (Freccia) trains or the competing Italo Treno. Both travel at up to 300 km/h and both have very comfortable trains. Second class is just fine in either. Choose whichever one fits your schedule best and has the best price at the time.
• you can save money with advance purchase tickets on the Freccia trains if you can get Super Economy or Economy tickets. However the S.E. tickets are non-refundable and non-changeable once purchased. With Regionale trains, it makes no difference whether you buy advance tickets or not, as the price is always the same. Advance purchase Regionale tickets do not have to be validated.

Thank you for these responses and your patience with what must be very easy questions. I was last in Italy in the early 90s, which was a lifetime ago to me. I had all the time in the world back then to research everything--not so much the case now. We have all of our lodging most of our high-demand "attractions" purchased. I left the trains for last (mostly because it is most confusing to me), which I am hearing from Jean I should perhaps not have done! Hopefully I can make that right over the next couple days.

Just a few clarifying questions:
(1) I think that I should have said "purchase in advance at home" instead of "reserve." I am hearing from Jean that if I buy them in the States before I leave, I do not have to validate. Is that correct? I do understand that regardless of where I purchase, I will have a seat and coach number, but I am wanting to know if I need to buy them well ahead of time or if I can do it on the day. I am hearing from Jean and the first respondent that indeed, I should buy here in the states. So we will do that today.
(2) Ken, regarding the Regionale tickets, you had said that reservations are not possible or required. But then later you did say that advanced purchase tickets are possible. What I should have asked is, can I buy Regional tickets ahead of time in the states before I leave for Italy, and is there an advantage doing that (do I save time at the station, time in line once I am at the station)?
(3) Again, I am specifically wondering if buying tickets ahead of time would save us time and ensure we would get a spot on the train--as well as save money. The reason: In some cases, such as Venice to Rome and Rome to Florence, we are not quite ready to make a determination about exactly when we will leave the departure city. But if you are advising that we make these purchases before we leave on the trip in order to ensure a spot or make our travels significantly easier, we can land on a time and get that done.
(4) I have seen that some of the web sites instruct us to print the ticket on A4 size paper. Can we just use the 8.5 x 11 available here in the states, or is that not advised?

Thank you again!

Is that correct?

No, Ken has corrected all the (unintentionally) inaccurate info given by Jean. In his 1st post there are answers to all your questions.
If it wasn't for the advice to use a reseller's site, Ken's post could be pasted and copied on Trenitalia's and Italotreno's home pages.

There are only reserved seats on high speed trains, that never sell out.

There are no reserved seats on Regionale trains, that can't sell out.

You can buy all train tickets in advance up to 15 minutes before the scheduled departure time ,either online or in person. It's up to you
Since trains do not sell out it's just a matter of saving money giving up on flexibility, you'll never run the risk of not finding a seat between Venice, Florence and Rome. There is a train every 45 minutes. On the other hand, if you purchase on the day of travel you can rest assured you will pay the top Base fare with Trenitalia and the top Flex fare with Italotreno. The price difference can be substantial.

have seen that some of the web sites instruct us to print the ticket on A4 size paper.

Tickets purchased on the official sites do not need to be printed out. On high speed trains you tell conductors the pnr code, on Regionale trains you can show the QR code using any display.

If you are traveling on a Saturday, Trenitalia has a two for one deal just now.
I don't know if it applies in June?
I bought two tickets yesterday, for a Saturday in September, Rome to Naples for E19.80!
A great deal!

So now I confess I am confused. Do we need to validate the tickets if we buy in the US or not validate? How exactly do we validate if we can’t physically “punch” the card in one of the yellow machines? On the tickets we have already put in the shopping cart, it says that it’s an electronic ticket and we do not need to validate. These are the for non-regional train tickets we are searching for.

Also, Seat 61 had mentioned italiarail.com, so this is the site we are using to purchase, as it is much more understandable to us newbies. I’m hoping that’s okay and that it is a “official” site as you reference above.

jm, you need to understand what "validation" is. It is a bit of a misnomer, you are "timestamping" a ticket, without the timestamp it is not valid.

• Traditional tickets bought at a station for a regional train are valid on any train. So they need a way to stop people using the same ticket twice. That is validation, you stamp a time on the ticket before getting on the train so you cannot re-use the same ticket on a later date. A commuter buys 10 tickets on a Monday, and uses two a day (there and back).
• Tickets for High Speed trains are for a specific train, they have the train time and ID on them. You cannot use them on another train (or you can say they are already validated).
• Same for e-tickets. You could print as many copies of the ticket as you like, so validation would be totally pointless, it would not stop you using a different copy. All e-tickets have a time printed on them, that is what stops you using them twice. No validation needed.

You need to validate only one type of ticket: regional trains that you buy at the station from an agent or a ticket machine. These tickets are not for a specific train, so you need to validate to prove you used it; otherwise, you could use it again on another train.

If you book a train for a specific time/date (online, on your phone, etc.), you don't need to validate anything. Any ticket that has a reserved date/time/seat does not need validation.

(1) I think that I should have said "purchase in advance at home" instead of "reserve." I am hearing from Jean that if I buy them in the States before I leave, I do not have to validate. Is that correct? I do understand that regardless of where I purchase, I will have a seat and coach number, but I am wanting to know if I need to buy them well ahead of time or if I can do it on the day. I am hearing from Jean and the first respondent that indeed, I should buy here in the states. So we will do that today.

A: Anything you purchase at home you will not need to validate.

(2) Ken, regarding the Regionale tickets, you had said that reservations are not possible or required. But then later you did say that advanced purchase tickets are possible. What I should have asked is, can I buy Regional tickets ahead of time in the states before I leave for Italy, and is there an advantage doing that (do I save time at the station, time in line once I am at the station)?

A: I buy my Regionale tickets ahead of time, also, because I already know which time I want to leave a city. For me it's just easier to have them all, show up at the train station 10-15 minutes before the train leaves, and board the train. There are no assigned seats on a Regionale; just hop on and sit in an empty seat.

(3) Again, I am specifically wondering if buying tickets ahead of time would save us time and ensure we would get a spot on the train--as well as save money. The reason: In some cases, such as Venice to Rome and Rome to Florence, we are not quite ready to make a determination about exactly when we will leave the departure city. But if you are advising that we make these purchases before we leave on the trip in order to ensure a spot or make our travels significantly easier, we can land on a time and get that done.

A: The reason to purchase ahead of time is to obtain the savings. If you don't want to commit to a specific time, then just wait to purchase the tickets. (It's good to check the amount of savings & then determine which way you would like to proceed.)

(4) I have seen that some of the web sites instruct us to print the ticket on A4 size paper. Can we just use the 8.5 x 11 available here in the states, or is that not advised?

A: Printing them on 8.5 X 11" paper is fine. I've had the train inspector either look at my paper and enter the code on his machine or he scans the paper. You may also have the code ready from your phone. But, since you have proof or face the hefty fine, I like to just have the paper ready to hand them.

And no worries about the patience of your questions! We all started at the beginning and learned from guidebooks and as we traveled. Each country's train system is slightly different.

jm,

I'll try to answer your most recent questions.....

1. You don't need to buy Regionale tickets ahead of time, but can certainly do that if you'd rather have all your tickets in hand when you arrive in Italy. Only locally purchased Regionale tickets have to be validated. If you buy those tickets online, they are pre-validated and can be used on any Regionale train on the same route, but the journey must be started within four hours of the listed departure time. You won't have a seat and coach no. on Regionale trains, since no reservations are possible. You may have to stand in the foyer for part of the trip until a seat becomes available (as I have many times). You will only have a reserved coach and seat no. on the express trains (Freccia / Intercity).

2. What I stated earlier is correct... reservations are not possible or required on Regionale trains, and tickets can be purchased in advance or locally. Unlike tickets for the express trains, there are no discounts for Regionale tickets. They're the same price whether you buy them locally or online. No, you won't usually save any time at the station when using Regionale trains, unless there's a queue at the ticket Kiosk or the Kiosk is non funzionante. For that reason, I often visit the station and buy Regionale tickets the day prior to travel. I sometimes stop at the station for a coffee at watch all the hustle & bustle when I'm buying tickets. When buying Regionale tickets the day before travel, it's important to ensure that the correct date-of-travel is specified, as that makes a big difference.

3. Buying advance tickets for Regionale trains won't save any money..... those tickets are always the same price. You'll always get a spot on the train as there are no reservations, but you may have to stand for part of the trip. The Venice - Florence and Florence - Rome trips will be via high speed train (compulsory reservations), so you can save money with advance purchase tickets but if you do that, you MUST be willing to commit to a specific departure. If you'd rather use the spontaneous approach and pick your departure time when you're in Italy, you can easily buy tickets for the high speed trains even on the day of travel. However the discounted tickets will likely be sold out so you'll get Base Fare tickets, which are the highest price tier. Again as I noted earlier, tickets for express / high speed trains do not have to be validated.

4. You should be able to use 8.5" x 11" paper. I've done that many times. The printer sometimes balks a bit but I always get it to work.

Tickets for the express / high speed trains will have a PNR number shown on them, and that's all you need to show to the train staff.

This video shows a short tutorial on how to validate train tickets in Italy - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rdvRkB7E-sY . The machines may also be green & gray coloured. Watch what everyone else is doing and you shouldn't have any problems. Since 8.5" x 11" paper won't fit into the machine, that's a good indicator that you don't need to validate advance purchase Regionale tickets.

You may also find this short video helpful - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6n8rITO1Eek .

Hope this helps.

Thank you so much, everyone! I completely understand now. We also purchased many of our tickets (even still found some Super Economy/Economy!).

I am not sure what I would do without this forum!

Take care and safe travels to all.