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Traffic violation ...new scam?

I traveled in Italy about 5 years ago. Today I received a letter from a collections company in New Jersey that wants over $400 for an "infringement " in Pisa. This has to be a scam ... right? I have lived and traveled through out Europe and am familiar with the different laws through out the countries, in fact I wasn't born in the US, so I know a thing or two about ZTL zones, circles, traffic lights and cameras. Can someone point me in the right direction of what the deal is with this?

Posted by
1662 posts

Even born and bred locals from Italy have stated in the past that they may have received a fine or they know someone - friend or relative who has received a fine even though they live in Italy and know the laws.

Americans know and see the posted speed limits and continue to drive like they're competing with Jeff Gordon.

And some consider a stop sign or a red light a suggestion... That frightens me.

So what I mean to say is even though someone is familiar with the laws of the land, it does not mean that they don't break them accidentally or intentionally. I am not saying that you did.

5 years is a pretty long time to have someone chase you for a ZTL fine.

So your recollection of where you were driving back then is not as clear as if it was last week.

Perhaps to satisfy your curiosity, you should go straight to the source - call the collections agency and ask for details - if they have the copy of the original fine or infraction.

You don't have to give the collection agency all your personal details. Although if they are legit, then they have your basic demographics from the rental agency or the Italian officials.

Since it is a United States collection agency, ask what the options are. I honestly do not know if you can dispute that.

A lot of people come on here when they receive a notice to pay a fine or two for going through a ztl zone or any other prohibited area.

There are tons of threads that you will see very similar where people automatically think it is a scam.

The advantage that you have right now is that it is a New Jersey collections agency so it may be easier to decipher and get to the root of the cause as opposed to dealing with Italian officials and correspondence.

Posted by
23177 posts

It is not scam. Europe uses photo tickets at a much higher rate that the US does. And generally the violation rides with the vehicle and car owner/operator at time of infraction. There is a ton of discussion here on traffic tickets and payments. Just use the search box to find the discussion.

It has been reported in the last year or so that the Italian cities are now using US collection agencies to collect prior traffic fines. The general belief is that the agency would be unable to obtain a court judgement in a US court. And in your case probably impossible given the age. I am guessing Pisa just turn them all over to an agency and they are trying to rattle a few cages to see if any one pays up. Doesn't mean that the collection agency cannot be nasty for a while or report you to a credit bureau. Probably cannot make it stick with the reporting agencies but it can be a hassle for you to dispute it and clean it up. They are just raking the ashes to find a hot ember. I would ignore it given the age. If it was only a year old, that could be a different story.

Posted by
32515 posts

were you driving in Pisa at the date and time they said you were?

I wouldn't be so quick to say to ignore it.

We only have one side of the story here and not much of that. We don't know if the OP has moved a lot, been difficult to find for whatever reason or anything.

Posted by
11027 posts

Is this your first notice of the 'violation'?

Was it a rental car you were driving? If so, did the rental company ever bill you for the reporting your ID to the police?

Does the notice indicate the date of the violation? Were you there on that date?

Truly odd after so long a time.

Posted by
3812 posts

Joe32 is right.

You should have noticed a charge on your credit card within 5 months from the day you dropped the rental car off. Did you? If not, it's strange.

Then you should have received (o declined to) a registered letter from Pisa's cops within 360 days from the above mentioned charge. A letter giving notice to pay or file an appeal within 60 days. Did you? If not it's strange because fines are void if cops can't send the First registered letter to foreigners within 360 days. Can this company in New Jersey prove Pisa's cops mailed the First letter to the right address before the statute of limitations of 360 days? This is the reason why Real fines always mention the exact day cops were told the offender's details.

I'd be surprised if you hadn't received at least a second registered letter from Italy before Pisa's police department sold your debt.

I know Americans need to think they are surrounded by evil scammers, but this New Jersey company may have bought a stockpile of unpaid fines and yours may have been included by mistake.

Posted by
32171 posts

I have the same question as Nigel..... were you driving in Pisa on the date of the infraction? How much information did they provide about the ticket?

Given the long time that has elapsed, I'd probably do some research to determine whether this might be a legitimate charge. As I understand it, Italian traffic violations have to be delivered within one year. I've never heard of one being delivered this long after the ticket was issued.

Good luck!

Posted by
7277 posts

So I wonder if the amount includes 5 years worth of interest, and a hefty collection agency’s fee? If a documentable infraction, it would be appropriate, after such a long time, for the collectors to be able to prove their case. Hope you get a fair response from them. And after so long, what are the ramifications of the “fine” not being paid?

Posted by
495 posts

I don't know if is a scam or not.
The suggestions given before are good: try to have all the original details. The original bill of the police, the photo of the camera, the plate number of your car. And of course verify the fine fine happened in a city when you were there. Of course even you you pay attention when you drive a mistake or wrong turn could happen to everybody.
5 years seems incredibly a long time for a fine.
Is true that now Cities are using much more collecting agency to have the fines paid. Is even true that usually a fine is sent to the rental company (that own the vehicle) and is the rental company whom charge the fine to your credit card.

Posted by
3812 posts

and is the rental company whom charge the fine to your credit card.

This is wrong, at least in Italy: rental companies can't pay and decide not to appeal for you. They charge a fee for giving cops the offenders' details.

Posted by
554 posts

I don't drive in Europe, so forgive my ignorance. But isn't there some sort of an app that tell you when you are in or getting close to a ZTL zone? If they can see us, can't we see them?

Also my friends got hit with VIGNETTE when leaving Slovenia. They didn't know. Apparently it is a permit/charge for driving on their highways. They had to pay for one at the border when leaving and a fine.
What about an app that allows you to plug in your route, and it pops up with "what you need to know".

Just asking.

Posted by
3812 posts

or getting close to a ZTL zone

Sure, there is an app called "Signs" and it starts working 80 meters before the camera; it comes in various formats: the "One Way" edition, the "Speed Limit" and so on.
Otherwise you can install "Waze" and hope that other users keep it as updated as "Signs".

Posted by
554 posts

Hey, don't be mean. I said I didn't know anything about driving in Europe. I take the train.

Posted by
151 posts

TreatTraeler...
I am not a lawyer, but 5 years of loan collection... I'm pretty sure the statute of limitation has expired on this case long time ago...

Posted by
7595 posts

I am a lawyer, but now retired. I seem to remember that in Georgia that parking tickets have a 4 year Statute of Limitations. I know that other states have one or two year limitations. However, this is for traffic violations which are criminal cases.

Civil cases have different limitations. Suits for personal injury are usually two years. Written Contract cases are usually 5 years.

It is likely that the Statue of Limitations are passed. Be careful, not to acknowledge the act, since that could restart the period.

If you are sued, hire an attorney and defend in court.

Posted by
32515 posts

is an American statute of limitations the same as an Italian one? It would be Italian law not US or state.

Posted by
1507 posts

If the car is on hire, the reporting agent has 90 days to ask who was driving, the hire society has 60 days to reply, the agent has again 90 days to notify the driver. So a first request should arrive within 8 months. - The fine expires after 5 years, but any reminder restarts the term.

Posted by
3812 posts

the agent has again 90 days to notify the driver.

Sorry, but I wrote above how it works for foreign drivers. The agent has again 90 days to notify Italian drivers. They have again 360 days to notify foreign drivers.

They should just cut the 60 days for rental companies to 10 when the car is driven by a customer, but lobbies do exist.

Posted by
5362 posts

Why is everything always a scam? It's a wonder I make it through each day in Europe.

Posted by
15041 posts

Dario is right about the times of notification:
- 90 days to notify the Italian owner (Including rental companies)
- 60 days for a rental company to respond to authorities with the name of the driver
- 360 more days for the authorities to notify the foreign driver abroad.

Within that time you should have received a notification with registered mail from the Pisa Municipal Police. Do you remember receiving one about 4 years ago?

If you did and ignored it, the City of Pisa likely engaged an international collection agency to recoup that debt.

The fine would have been around €80 of paid within 60 days (plus s few extra fees) from the day of notification. After 60 days the amount doubles, and then it increases 10% every 6 months. To the amount due, the collection agency certainly adds more.

Traffic violations in Italy are NOT criminal infractions. They are administrative infractions. The statute of limitations is 5 years from the violation or from the LAST notification received from the authorities. In other words every notification received from the authorities (via registered mail) resets the clock to count the 5 years.

Traffic fines incurred by foreign drivers that are uncollected are sometimes (not all Italian municipalities do) “assigned” to a third party collection agency with international affiliates. Those agencies try to collect those fines for a commission fee that can be as high as 50%.

The good news for you, who live in the US, is that those foreign traffic debts are not enforceable in US Courts, and since 2015, debts arising from traffic fines (among others) are no longer reportable to the Credit Bureaus, therefore the collection agency will be unable to obtain a judgement against you in Court and won’t be able to report you to the Credit Bureaus either, so your credit score will not be affected.

https://www.discover.com/credit-cards/resources/do-parking-tickets-affect-credit-scores/

They will however pester you to convince you to pay anyhow. It is therefore very important that you know your rights as set forth by the Fair Credit Reporting Act (FCRA). They cannot harass you, and threatening to report your debt to the Credit Bureaus knowing that they can’t is a serious violation of such Act. Violations of the FCRA by the Collection Agency would entitle you to collect damages which could be actual damages or statutory damages ranging from $100 to $1000 (no need to prove you actually suffered damages to get that). So you could even be making some money from this incident.

I have not worked for collection agencies, but I audited them on behalf of Hospital systems who engaged those agencies to collect hospital debts from patients, so I had to become acquainted with their practices and the provisions of FCRA.