Traffic/Parking Tickets

It looks like you didn't know that you were parking in an unlawful manner, but unfortunately, ignorance of the law is not a defense. If you had gone to the local police station as soon as you discovered the ticket, you might have been able to plead your case and have the ticket waived. Not having done that, it seems that you have both a legal and moral obligation to pay Hertz for having to help the police track you down and to pay for both parking tickets.

Bonnie, while you are well-intentioned and your answer may be reasonable in an honest town of USA it appears (see previous posts here) that there MAY be some organized rackets re non-payment of autostrada tolls and bogus parking tickets. Several of us are trying to track further info on this. Randy

Ralph, Thanks for more info on this problem. This is the 1st time that I have see a rental agency charging a "locator free".

Ralph, have you contacted the Italian tourist board here in the US (one of the local offices)?

http://www.italiantourism.com/enit.html

They need to know that these schemes are running rampant. The more people that do this the better.

Randy, do you know what avenues are being pursued to see what can be done?

Steve, I have not yet collected and assembled all the little scraps of info from the relevant posts and have not done anything with it yet. FYI my 'ticket' for violating the restricted zone of florence either was never sent or miscarried. I was charged a locator fee by avis of about 5-7 euro.

Thanks for everyone's comments. As an update, I called the Italian Tourist Bureau (310 820-1898)and was refused help: they said I had to call the Italian Consulate (310 820-0622). I did. I never could get through the maze of automatic referrals at the Consulate. I called my credit card company and was assured they wouldn't give out my number. However, upon calling the rental car company (HERTZ) I was told that if I didn't pay the ticket(s) the Italian ticketing authorities could/would bill Hertz who in turn would/will bill me (as they have my credit card #). The one demand I've received so far (for the Pienza parking ticket)is for 137.25 euros. I have no idea what the other one may be. There's actually a 3d ticket which the Manager of Hotel La Spiaggia in Monterrosa took and said he'd take care of -- I may receive a claim for that as well.
Certainly a strong warning about this potential problem for car renters should be included in guide books.

-- Ralph

Worse yet! If Hertz thinks they are going to "pass through" these bogus tickets this is nothing short of fraud and extortion. A good reason to never ever rent from Hertz and perhaps certain other car rental agencies. With this scheme there is absolutly no due process or need for honesty. On my last trip, May-June'07, I used Hertz for first time and may live to regret it.

Ralph, you have done a wonderful service to all of us that rent cars in Italy. This has been the best update of this problem that I have seen.

Randy, I agree! I always rent thru AutoEurope, and they place you with the major car rental agencys (most of the time Europecar). I will make sure that I NEVER use Hertz! But, I wonder if Hertz will really bill Ralph for the parking ticket? I have never heard of that happening in Italy.

On our June 07 trip we rented our car thru AutoEurope, and were placed with Europecar. I got a parking ticket, and it was just like the ones you get here...a ticket on my window. My wife made me pay it. (We had specificlly asked the parking cop if we could park on that street, and when we came back there was the ticket!)

Ralph, please keep us appraised of your actions. I would just "sit on it", and see what happens.

When you are not allowed to represent yourself, they have forfeited their case.

Renting a car in Italy is a bit like playing Russian Roulette, you can end up having a good experience or with ridiculous tickets. We rented from Sixt Italy and got sent a ticket to which their response was "This is BS, you did nothing wrong, we'll fix it for you." and indeed they did.

I'm sorry this happened to you, but this is all very eye-opening. Seems like meter maids are the same everywhere you go.
What aggravates me is the ability rental agencies have to charge your credit card after you are no longer an active customer. And, naturallly, the burden of proof lies on you & not them (sorry, 137 euro is outrageous for a parking violation). I smell a rat.

David, where did Sixt take care of your "problem"? In Italy when you turned your car in, or back home?

If it was "back home", I would call this REAL customer service!

What type of ticket did you get, and how did you receive it? In the mail? Certified or Registered? or on the car window?

Reading Ralph's story again, I am also struck by the fact that Hertz charged him $28 to provide his name and address to the Italian authorities! One more reason NOT to use them!

Oh, and Ralph, I agree with Randy; I think that Hertz is right in the middle of fraud and deception. I think it would be good idea to politely ask them to show you where, in their contract, they have the ability to charge you for "locating fees" and tickets.

And last, but not least. One thing that has worked well for us is to enlist the help of our credit card company. Several times they have agreed with us on disputes, and have reversed charges. Don't pay the "$137 scam", and see if Hertz really does charge you!

They called us when we got back home. It was for the Florence parking charge (failure to register our car). However, since we weren't staying in Florence, we were not required to register our car, a fact Sixt pointed out. Since we had legally parked it at the Porta Romana parking lot, and kept our receipt, we had no problem.

We got it in the mail, not certified.

score one for why i never want to drive in italy;that being said..just "wondering out loud " here..what would happen if you shifted your credit card: paid off/closed your account that "hurts", "avis" have?

Hi everyone,

I just received three letters from this company ("european municipality outsourcing") asking for three fines (90 € each!) for being in a limited traffic zone without autorization in Firenze. Two of them are taken just with five minutes gap! It seems that most of the historical city has this restriction so forget to arrive there by car! Hertz gave them my address. Never again.

To reiterate earlier points...Florence DOES have restricted zones...they tell you right up front. I would not trust hotel or parking garage to 'register' your car. Most of the complaints so far involve Hertz for attempting to pass through massive charges. My Avis episode was just a referal fee cost of 5-7 Euro. No complaints yet lodged against AutoEurope. Parking 'tickets' are very suspect. Everybody parks illegally. Seems rentals are singled out. Perhaps the scam is simply that you rented a car and the alleged violation never really occured!

I find this all very intereseting, and have a couple comments. While driving in France last year I had my picture taken twice while flying down the freeway. I assumed at some point I would receieve a ticket in the mail. I never did. It was a Hertz rental and I have never heard from Hertz. It was a good rental experience. As far as the cost of your ticket. I was told by a B&B owner that if they sent me a ticket for my speeding it would have been around 400 euro. So a 137 parking ticket seems to be in line. I am planning to rent in Italy in April but all this has me wondering, about with who.

I just got a notice today in the mail that while in Florence, back in May, I drove in a restricted area. First, our hotel was in that restricted area and they told us to drive there. And while we stayed there, we used a valet parking service that the hotel provided.

Now, I have 1) no idea if I was driving the car or if the valet driver was behind the wheel, and 2) I was told by the hotel to drive to the hotel!!

As others have been unsure what to do, I am too. I'd like to go back to Italy someday and don't want to have a huge fine waiting or worse, but I don't think it's right for me to just have to pay the $90 Euro ticket for something that I didn't do wrong, nor have any way to appeal.

Back in ABQ, NM where I've lived, there are red light camera tickets, but they have a fair appeal process.

Not sure what to do.... BTW, the ticket was sent via regular mail... perhaps I should just claim that I never got it. I'd pay it if I felt it was a fair ticket. Grrr.

Yes, could be worse- and I realize that. I'd pay it if I really felt it was just. I'm not even sure I was driving!! And I doubt they have any proof that I was, though the burden of proof that I wasn't driving is apparently mine?? (not to mention that there's no appeal process in the letter I was sent).

And... If my credit card company would accept such a charge and not allow me to contest it, I'd cancel the card right after that. I work for a technology company, but am not sure I enjoy living in a such a technical world where I supposedly commit some sort of violation according to some electronic equipment that some government has paid some private company to operate and some other company who supposedly I am a customer of allows the other comopany to take funds from my account without my approval. That all amounts to a "legal" electronic mugging by a government entity. Complete BS in my book.

I wonder if there is a statute of limitations, or what else can happen if I don't pay the fine? I'd like to return to Italy again in the future but I don't think it is likely in the next few years... hmmm.

In one of the earlier threads someone said not to pay if it did not come by registered mail. I can't find it now.

We are expecting one sometime in about 2009 for a toll booth violation- could not get it to take our money but the gate went up. So we drove through - right past the red light. We tried and tried to get it to take the money but the little drawers clamped shut tight and would not open again.

Chris: Toss the ticket! If it did not come via registered mail, then you "did not receive it". There is no proof that you were served.

I also agree with you about the credit card. My CC Company is really good about helping us out with protests. If someone tries to attach a charge to your CC, protest it.

My guess is that this is a "fishing exedition". A lot of people will not stand up for their rights, will let someone intimidate them with an illegal process, and will pay "their fine".

My brother had this happen to him. He ignored the non-registered letter, and when he went back to Italy no one threw him in jail, and he had no problem renting the next time.

If you do recieve a registered letter.....do not accept it.

There is a good story in TA about someone going back and attempting to pay one of these tickets.....they gave up, and kept their money!

http://rome-hotels.tripadvisor.com/ShowTopic-g187791-i22-k1153015-Parking_Fines-Rome_Lazio.html

I too just received a ticket from, Polizia Municpale (Commune di Arezzo) by European Municipality Outsourcing via unregistered mail for:
ART.7 C 1/14A - The vehicle crossed a limited hours area outside of authorized hours. They give the time and date which coincide with when I was in Arezzo. I never received any notification before this such as ticket on the window, etc. Any thoughts if this is bogus and should be ignored. It sounds like some of the tickets other travelers have received on this helpline. Yes, Avis forwarded my name but so far no sign they have my credit card or have charged to it.

We stayed in a hotel in Florence in May 2007.We received a fine through the post in September for 89 Euro. We live in Australia, so I contacted Avis in Sydney, I sent them a copy of the fine, they in return sent me back a copy of what the Italian fine should look like. The copy they sent me looks very different to the one I recieved from European Municipality Outsourcing. I think people may get somewhere by contacting the car companies in their home countries. I hope this helps in some way.

Ralph, I suspect the ticket is legitimate. Whether there would be any consequences in not paying it is difficult to say?

This note in Rick's 2008 update might clarify the situation:

"Drivers should keep in mind that Italy is now gung-ho for restricted traffic zones in the city centers — causing some travelers to find hefty fines ($100+) in their mail when they arrive home. If you drive in Rome, Florence, Milan, Lucca, Siena, San Gimignano, Orvieto and Verona — in restricted areas marked by a Zona Traffico Limitato sign, often with the wording shown above a red circle — your license can be photographed and you can be fined without ever being stopped by a cop. Want to avoid this? Pay attention to signs, park in lots outside of restricted areas and get advice from your hotelier."

Most car rental contracts state that the renter agrees to pay any traffic fines. If you signed the contract, you agreed to that!

This is why I prefer public transit in Italy!

Good luck!

There's a verbose but useful summary of what you need to know about traffic violations at: http://www.bella-toscana.com/traffic_violations_italy.htm

I see that there is very little about this issue posted in 2008 - likely because these citations arrive 6-8 months after the supposed violation. I was in Florence in May'08 - if my theory is right, I am one of the first of "the new crop", which will only grow as the new summer citations work there way through the system.

If this is so, we need to advance the dialogue about WHAT TO DO with these traffic tickets, if only to save the "Class of 08" from all the research already done.

Let me open with my position:
1. The tickets ARE valid.
2. You WILL eventially be found liable: both your rental car and credit card agreements say so.
3. Despite all the "ignorance is no excuse" and "when in Rome" arguements, many of these cases, especially the multiple summonses where someone circles the block 6 times in the wrong lane, smack of entrapment.
4. While entrapment may (or may not) be legal in Italy, it is not in N. America; therefore the veiled EMO threats about "International Conventions" don't cut it in my book.

Subject to hearing what other people have experienced in trying to settle these claims (very little posted to date) I plan to:
1. Phone the EMO and arrange to pay one of the fines by bank draft or cheque, which will have a "total absolution" clause on the back indicating agreement by the endorser.
2. Inform the EMO that I am registering a formal Court Protest in my country regarding the balance of the citations, in that these clearly present a case for entrapment. (I know, this won't help in Italy, but think about how your credit card company would rule with this kind of documentation on your side - and charging your credit card is the only way the EMO can get paid).

I will try to post updates on this process.

Bottom Line: I love Italy. I go every year. It's not a difficult country to drive in. But it is fraught with greedy schemes. The "multiple consecutive camera violation" scheme is one of them. It is often pure entrapment.

With the number of responses on this blog about the tickets in Italy, can you imagine the industry these small towns and cities have discovered? There could be several thousands who receive parking tickets every month and the Italian police only has the cost of postage to try and collect 90 or more euros from each victim.

There seems to be this panicked "it's a conspiracy!" mentality. At the company where I work here in Italy I happened to find last week a file on our system documenting the traffic tickets our employees get when they use a company car. One (Italian)salesman went to Bologna in 2006 and in 3 days got eight tickets for driving in a ZTL, some of them minutes apart from each other. In general traffic tickets come through the mail, they are almost never handed out on the scene, nor left on your windsheild. The fine in 2006 was 83 euros apiece, or a total of 660 euros, a fee which has certainly gone up in the last two years, just like everything else in Italy. My point is this, if you got a ticket it was mostly likely because you actually were driving or parking in a place where you shouldn't, and not because someone is trying to scam you.

I will reinforce what Claire said; you are not being scammed, you broke the law, and Italy (as do most European Countries) has very high fines on infractions. The intent of the law is to limit traffic in historic city centers and preserve something of a pleasant experience, something each of you travelled thousands of miles to experience. When you drive, you take the risk of accident and of breaking laws that you might know nothing about. It is not the responsibility of the Italians or the Rental car company to educate you on the rules of the road. These laws are not there to "trap" or scam tourists, they affect locals as well. True, the more ignorant some are of the local laws, the more subject to fines they are. Some further facts:
-Rental car companies are obligated to provide driver information when contacted by authorities.
-Rental Car companies usually will charge a fee for doing this, it is spelled out in your contract.
-Depending on your contract, the Rental car company may end up paying the fine to relieve itself of liability, and pass the cost on to you.
-Cancelling your credit card does not work, your card was in effect at the time of the transaction and you are obligated to pay any charges associated with that transaction as detailed in your contract. In fact, if it can be shown that you attempted to cancel the card specifically to avoid the charges...that is fraud.
-Several have mentioned...but my hotel was in the zone...True, and the law allows for travel to your hotel, but also requires that you register. Make sure (and doublecheck) that your hotel does this, and if you do get a ticket, I would first contact the hotel and see if they can clear it up.
-Keep in mind that only Italian Law applies in this instance. Your notions of "Registered" letters and such and other legal specifics matter for nothing if they are only obligated to notify you, not that you received it.

As the person who originally raised this subject, given the passage of time (and understanding) since our visit to Italy in October 2006, I agree with the last two correspondents that local laws are valid so "don't waste time objecting to reality". The parking tickets I received allowed immediate (and I think lower) payment (or protest) at the local jurisdiction if I'd taken the time to do it. Ultimately I did pay the only fine I received a registered letter for -- securely as one of the comment-writers mentioned. That's what I'd urge others to do. Italy is such wonderful a country to visit, I'd return (and drive) there in a minute whenever I could!

All the more reason to take public transportation when possible. Travelers have the obligation to learn about the rules of the places they're visiting. Actions have consequences. Simple as that.

I was just in Italy and had no idea about any of these ZTL's or the 100's of speed cameras on the autostrade. From what I counted from the website I am going to have probaly 60+ tickets coming to me (maybe more). I did a lot of driving on the autostrade during my stay. I have absolutly no way of of paying that amount in fines that from what I read WILL be charged to me. On top of that I read that Avis is going to charge me 50 Euro for each ticket also for admin fees. I have no idea of what I'm going to do about this. The best that I can gather is that I will probaly be financially ruined and have to claim bankruptcy, probaly losing all of my assests in the process...... So for a 2 week stay in Italy I will have lost everything I have worked for my entire life and have ruined a very large part of my future along with the ability to provide for my childs future...

If anyone has any adivce or anything about this I would appreciate it..

Stop it, Paul, you're breaking my heart.

Hey there, Paul from "Pheonix"...I've got some more bad news for you. You know that "tick tick tick" sound your car makes that the mechanic said means it needs a minor valve adjustment? It's actually your piston rings, meaning your engine is completely shot. This is a pretty expensive repair, probably about two thousand bones considering nobody can find Chevette parts anymore. And it's dangerous to drive right now, so you better get it fixed pretty quick. I mean, if it doesn't blow up today on the way home from work. Which it could. Injuring you. And leaving you disfigured.

Or not. I mean, it's just a worst case scenario.

I guess I'm in the class of '08. Rented from Hertz in June, got an unexplained charge on my Visa bill in October for 18 Euros, no explanation. Then another in December for the same amount. THEN a single statement (two copies) about what I thought was a parking citation in Orvieto for 18 Euros. I thought I'd paid a small parking violation for under $30 and breathed a sigh of relief. Alas, too soon. THEN the Euros 94.75 came from the Police Office in Florence, including a picture of our car plates. No ticket was left on the car. 8 months later, a bill for which there appears no appeal, plus $50 in charges for informing the Florence police. This can't be supportable. The experience with Hertz was painful before this incidence. We will never use Hertz abroad again. But I'm still pondering how to respond to the ticket itself. Best, Jim

Let me add to this discussion, as some people seem to think that screaming "you broke the laws in another country, stop whining" is just enough.

On a beautiful, sunny day in July of 08 I parked my tiny, little car in a parking spot in Pienza that had no markings and plenty of cars parked up and down the street. It's worth noting that I proceeded to spend probably about 300 Euros on lunch and wine in the town (hint hint).

Upon my return a few hours later, I had received not one but three tickets totalling close to $350 Euros. Folks that is a $400 fine for parking in what was clearly not a handicapped spot and not a "rush hour" (lol in Pienza? No such thing) spot.

That is beyond outrageous, and I was royally pissed. And I mean royally. Most important, it soured me on this town and my experience. It doesn't mean I won't return, but it means that the local idiots who gouge tourists are in effect reducing the charm and appeal of their town. Of course they need to control parking, but at WHAT COST? If I were handed a reasonable fine, I would have paid it. Instead, I'm just pissed off. Think about this for a second.

I returned to my hotel not far away and they said flat out "don't pay it". It's a cash grab extraordinaire. These are ITALIANS, who deal with this all the time.

They have been harassing me to pay this ticket ever since. I did a charge back on the rental car company who tried to sneak it in (they also told me at the time "don't pay it"). I just received another legal looking note from the outsourcing collection company and I dropped them into a public garbage can in Toronto. Not my problem gougers.

Sorry but a $400 fine for parking in a rudimentary spot (non emergency, non crip) in a small town is beyond the pale. Sorry Italy, not gonna work.

Hi Carl in Toronto, you conclusion seems to be essentially the same as that of the author of http://www.bella-toscana.com/traffic_violations_italy.htm although he uses less direct language. The municipalities go too far. Take a look at the numbers he gives for what they pull in Florence alone. In some of the posts I've read, the total fines for what was essentially a single event came to more than the airfare. This makes no sense for places highly dependent on the tourist dollar.

Note to Other Posters: Your reply on this subject will be seen by more people if you do NOT post it here (an old topic) but instead post it on the most currently active thread discussing this subject, click here to go there.

Although our travel predates this discussion, our invoice postdates it. Perhaps EuroCar is just catching up with this system?

We drove through Pisa in November of 2006. Our credit card flagged a suspected fraudulent charge on our credit card last month (March 2010) So we cancelled that card. Soon after we recieved an invoice directly from EuroCar, for the administrative cost of turning our contact information over to the authorities who have issued us a ticket. They , however, have no infomation about the ticket itself. I suspect is was driving through a protected zone in Pisa that day.

The administrative fee is 30Euros. no idea how much the traffic fine will be. Here's a very good site wrapping up a lot of the issues: http://www.bella-toscana.com/traffic_violations_italy.htm

Hitting us almost 3.5 years later feels very much like a scam. Eurocar says there is no limit to the amount of time they have to contat yoiu. But that the traffic agency has 360 days to contact us after they receiv our contact info. We have asked Eurocar for a copy of the original contract we signed, but no answer yet.

Well...Hertz is notorious for "ratting out" their renters and charging them handsomely for doing so. This "European Municipality Outsourcing" that is sending you this notice to pay is just that, an outsourced collection agency for the municipality. If it didn't come registered mail and you didn't get an official copy of the citation, then don't pay it. If you get an official citation, registered mail, from the municipality where the alleged infraction occured, then pay it. If Hertz tries to charge you for the infraction, dispute the bill if they can't cough up proof that you violated the law.

"If Hertz tries to charge you for the infraction, dispute the bill if they can't cough up proof that you violated the law."

Yes, try it, I suppose. But be advised: Others have reported that disputing the credit card charge has not worked, not for a rental car company admin charge for reporting your identity to Italian authorities.

It may just be that the credit card companies think the burden of proof is on you, to prove you weren't where the automatic enforcement cameras say you were.

No offense, but what are you all doing driving in Italy? The mass transit is efficient, on-time and cheap. I understand that some very small towns are difficult to reach without a car, but Florence and Rome, and even most small towns, are easily accessible by train.

Maybe I am not understanding...if you rent a car to drive in the country and find a parking lot outside the hilltown to park and visit for the day...why are you not safe to avoid tickets? Are these "scams" such that you could get a ticket that you don't deserve? Is it best to forget driving in the country and miss that experience? I am so confused!

We received the violation from Arezzo for "Vehicle Crossed a Limited Traffic Area Outside of Authorized Hours" ticket. The date of the infraction is September 13, 2008. Since this was more than One and a Half YEARS ago, I can't really recall the day that well.

I have read that there is a time limit for them to ticket you. I thought the time limit was one year. What am I to do about that?

There was no copy of the photo with the ticket. I have seen that you can see a copy of the photo and the sign itself for Florence, but can't find it for Arezzo. The ticket says the time of the infraction was 16:03:00. If I could see the sign, I could at least be sure we broke the rule.

It was so long ago, I don't remember. For all I know, we turned around to avoid going in the wrong area.

At least after reading all of this, I know it is real and not from a Nigerian prince!

Thanks for all of the previous posters!
Renee