To CT or not to CT...

I am an obsessive planner as well. 2 years ago we did this itinerary, and it suited us for our family of 4, with 2 teenaged boys:
2 nights in Venice
2 nights in Florence (big mistake, should've added at least another night)
2 nights in Riomaggiore
3 nights in Sorrento with a day trip to Pompeii(That was perfect)
4 nights in Rome
My question is- why 5 nights in Tuscany? What are you going to do there? I'm just asking out of curiosity, not for any other reason. I would definitely go to CT. I'm going again in June, and have finally nailed down the fact that we will be retuning to CT. We didn't hike enough last time.
This trip,we have 2 extra ground days, and we will be exchanging Sorrento for Bologna, and taking our Pompeii trip from Rome instead of Sorrento. I understand it's a little over 2 hours. That's okay, I plan on being more of a morning and night person this go 'round.
Whatever you decide, have a BLAST!!!!

Thank you, Jenny! This is the kind of advice I'm looking for! As to why five in Tuscany, we did a similar length trip in France two years ago and spent five nights in Provence between Paris and touring other areas. We absolutely needed a day or two to relax by a pool and be on vacation. So we built some of that down time into Tuscany. We anticipate doing some day trips from there as well.

And Jenny, I would love to hear about any excursions or activities that your boys enjoyed. My son will turn 15 when we're in Rome and would like to have some suggestions to celebrate!

I think your original plan sounds great and would keep CT in the mix. It's beautiful and a great place to relax between the bigger cities. In 2012 we did the train ride from Rome to Riomaggiore and it wasn't so bad, especially since we caught an early train. The train ride was slower since it was a regional train, but it was beautiful. I first visited CT when I was 15 and it's been one of my favorite places ever since. Enjoy your trip!

I would also suggest keeping the Cinque Terre on your Itinerary as it's a somewhat unique area and will provide a nice break from touring in larger centres. However keep in mind that two nights will only provide one full day of touring. If you had the time, I'd suggest adding one more night in the C.T.

"I dislike the travel time between La Spezia and Rome, which eats up almost a whole day if one is unable to catch an 8:00 am train."

Where are you getting your rail information? The trip from La Spezia to Rome is very easy and does not take a full day, especially if you use one of the direct trains (no changes). For example, you could depart at 08:16 via Freccia high speed (travel time 3H:47M) or at 10:06 via Intercity (travel time 4H:27M). The trip from Riomaggiore to La Spezia is only about 8 minutes, so I'm not sure why this would take "almost a whole day".

As an "obsessive planner", I assume you're aware of the potentially expensive "caveats" which apply both to using rental cars and trains or other public transit in Italy?

without trying to put you off CT, it is an interesting place, but after spending time there I don't think I have seen a photo of CT that hasn't been 'enhanced' so far from reality more than anywhere else we have visited.

I'm also on the side of nixing the CT. I stayed there on my very short visit in 2008, when the CT wasn't on everyone's itinerary and mid-October was nearing the end of the season. Now cruise ships dock in nearby ports most days all season long and disgorge their thousands of day-trippers. Riomaggiore is the start of the easiest part of the most popular trail and is likely to be quite crowded during the day. Also, I do agree that it will take most of a day to travel on to Rome. As Ken points out, the train ride gets you to Rome around 2.30 (getting an 8.16 train in La Spezia means getting up really early and maybe having to skip breakfast), another 1/2 hour to get to your hotel and then the check-in process. It will be past 3 pm before you set out to see anything, and you'll probably want to get lunch. And even if you get a couple picture-postcard-perfect views, that's only a few minutes out of the nearly 3 full days you're using to be there.

I would add one of those nights to Venice and the other to Rome. Your first day in Venice, at least one of you will probably be zonked, and unless you spend a lot on a water taxi, it will take you a long time to get to your hotel; it's hard to realize until you are there how slow the transportation is. Give yourselves 2 full days there. Two things that are likely to appeal are the Doge's Palace Secret Itineraries Tour (must book in advance, take the first tour of the day, before it gets too hot, and take water and fans with you) and a gondola-rowing lesson. I don't have the info, but several folks have reported back that it was great fun and cheaper than a gondola ride. The extra day in Rome means you'll have a day for Pompeii without missing the highlights of Rome.

I think it's a good plan. Maybe if you shorten Tuscany by one night you can visit Pompei with an extra night in Rome.
Or, You could cut the Cinque Terre totally, maybe shorten Tuscany by one night, and head to Sorrento for 3 or 4 nights before heading to Rome for the last 3.
Hard to make a choice for others.

Thank you to all. I know everyone has different preferences and hearing your choices and reasoning is truly helpful! Good thing we're getting snowed in this weekend as I'll have lots of time to noodle our itinerary.

Ken, I was actually looking at the two schedules you mention. I was exaggerating a bit on the "almost a whole day" thing but was figuring another hour getting to hotel and getting settled. If we can catch the early train at 8:16 we'd obviously have the better part of the afternoon left.

We're getting our international licenses from AAA and I've already had one anxiety dream about the ZTL! I know you have to validate your ticket on regional trains but right now all those details are swimming in my head. Once everything becomes more concrete, I'll dig in further. Is there a particular resource you prefer for this information?

I would keep the CT in your plans! It is very different and a nice change of pace from cities.
If you feel like you need 1 more night in Rome, than take 1 from the Pienza location. You currently have 8 in Tuscany so really won't miss anything if that drops to 7.

Having recently rented a car and stayed in Pienza, don't fear the ZTL. I was overly cautious about it for the first day or two and then it dawned on me if you don't see an old wall you haven't entered a ZTL. For non-Florence towns in Tuscany the ZTL's are all contained within walled off areas so it is more obvious going by that than signs on the road. We drove the backroads quite a bit even after dark and knock on wood no ZTL or ticket mailings (they could still come of course)
I feel you really do need a GPS or a phone with data so you can use a GPS app, as you cannot go by signage would need to have a good navigator in the passenger seat to rely on printed maps.

ks,

Taking an early train is certainly one option. I normally prefer to depart after about 10:00 so I can enjoy breakfast in the hotel I'm leaving (since I probably paid for it anyway). The other point is that if arriving too early in the next city, the room may not have been serviced so it's necessary to put luggage in storage at the hotel and come back later when the room is ready. I prefer to check in straight away. That's why I also mentioned the 10:06 departure.

Which part of Rome is your hotel located in? It shouldn't take too long to get from Termini to your hotel.

I'll send you a PM with some tips for using public transit in Italy.

Regarding rental cars, there are a few other points to keep in mind besides ZTL's. There’s also the possibility of fines for driving in bus lanes, parking tickets, tolls and speed cameras including the devious Traffic Tutor system which not only monitors instantaneous speeds but also average between two points. Violate either or both parameter and expensive tickets will follow! Be sure to budget for the high fuel costs and note that some automated fuel pumps may only accept Chip & PIN credit cards.

A GPS along with a good Map is also prudent. Be sure to give some thought to the question of CDW and theft insurance. In Italy, buying CDW from the rental firm is usually compulsory, so coverage provided by credit cards will not apply. Check the Car Rental guide at http://www.gemut.com/ for more information. Their free "Car Rental" PDF Guide can be downloaded. You may also want to check the “Travel & Transportation” pages at https://travel.state.gov/content/passports/en/country/italy.html for other tips. There’s also this website - https://it.usembassy.gov/u-s-citizen-services/local-resources-of-u-s-citizens/transportation-driving/?_ga=1.21563186.86862954.1474991758

One point to clarify.....

"Riomaggiore is the start of the easiest part of the most popular trail and is likely to be quite crowded during the day."

It won't be crowded at all, since it's not scheduled to be re-opened until April 2018.

It won't be crowded at all, since it's not scheduled to be re-opened until April 2018. In that case, is it a good idea to stay there?

I knew the trail would not be open. Maybe the best of both worlds?

Just a note that you need an international drivers permit (it's not a license, just a translation of your state license), you still need to carry your original license with you.

Thanks, again. Ken, we're staying at the Hotel Artemide, which Google Maps estimates as less than 10 minutes walk from Termini.

Zoe, thank you for the clarification on the permit vs. license. Good to know!