Ticket in Rome for riding bus without a ticket

Debbie, Nigel gives an accuate interpretation. The ATAC folks are FAR better at collecting fines than the parking police. The fact that they have his paspport number is really all they need - Address really doesn't matter. As Nigel points out, if they enter his data in their system, he will be in there until it is paid. By accepting the ticket, has has - in Italian terms - confirmed his guilt. Hey. that's their system. His issue would be to what extent the ATAC folks want to pursue this - that's really hard to say. Their accountability and follow-up improves every year. Living in Rome for three years, we had friends who were busted often on the buses. Most impacted were EU residents as they were "easier" to track down. But nowadays, with the system becoming more and more computerized... well, it's a lot easier to follow-up. I guess just like a parking violation - why take the risk and NOT pay the fine? Any friends who did not pay fines cringed every time they checked into a hotel or crossed the Schengen zone... €100 seems a small price to pay to avoid this risk... Then again, €1 for a bus ticket is even less to pay. I'd encourage you to pay. He broke the law, whether intentional or not. He got caught. As someone who rode buses in Rome for 3+ years and ALWAYS paid for a monthly, annual or daily ticket... I have no sympathy for folks who choose not to pay - including my many friends who often took the same risk. The bottom line is he did violate the laws of the country he was in and we would expect someone visiting Griffin, GA to pay their fines as applicable. There is the "moral" message, but more so, there is a risk - however slight - that this could come back and bite him at a later date. He could be detained and/or fined (with further penalties), and certainly that's not worth the risk. I'm surprised they did not take him downtown. I'd have HIM pay the fine.

Debbie, not sure if your son is STILL in Rome, but I can assure you that if he is busted again - and the ATAC police "call-in" his passport number - he WILL definitely be heading downtown. I know this as we had to go "bail out" a friend of ours who was a repeat offender. Just a week earlier she was bragging about not paying her fine - until she was busted the 2nd time. Then they took her to the questura. She called us as she stood on the side of the road waiting with the ATAC inspectors for the police to come take her to the station. Her fines were far more than the €100 for each violation. One of our British friends was busted as they headed through passport control at FCO for outstanding tickets - so it can happen. Most of the time the Italian authorities just wave you through at the airport, or even fail to enter a violation in their computers... but it only takes ONE TIME and your problems just got a lot worse! Having been to Italian police stations for paperwork, registering, etc. - where NO ONE seems to speak English - I'd hate to have to communicate about an issue like this... where it's pretty cut and dry that you violated the law, whether intentional or not. They have little sympathy for folks who they believe are far wealthier than the local citizens not paying for bus or train tickets. Again, I'd have him pay the fine...

If they have his passport number they could prevent him from entering the country again until he pays it. My question is: why would you not pay the fine. He broke the law so he should consider paying. Donna

Adding to the Ugly American persona isn't the best way to travel. He broke the law, he got caught, pay the fine.

Agree with above, consider it a lesson learned, although an expensive one.

You asked what will be the result if he does not pay. Part of the answer is that he will learn a lesson that you don't have to obey the rules if you think you can get away with it. I would imagine that is not something you want him to learn. Maybe he was already trying to do that by riding the bus without a ticket, hoping to get away with doing that. Or maybe he just didn't realize. Either way, he broke the law. This would be a good teachable moment to learn about what's involved in being a good citizen and a good traveler. See a related posting here: The buses in Rome are not free

If your son wants to chance his odds and save money by not paying he should be ready to pay when the odds catch up with him. And he's given false details? In the UK when a person fare dodges and gets a penalty it is a civil affair. If false details are given it becomes a criminal matter. I have no reason to believe it would not be the same throughout Europe. So, to directly answer what I can: What will happen? If he has been brought up with morals he will have a guilty conscience. As he has given false details he will worry every time he comes to Europe. If they catch up with him he will probably appear before an Italian Magistrate or certainly answer questions. The money won't go down. Or perhaps not. He's demonstrated chancing before, maybe his luck is in. Answer over - suggestion time. Have him skip a few beers and have beans for dinner a few days, find the money and go and clear it up. And buy a ticket next time, and validate it.

Debbie, As Ron so aptly pointed out, the bureaucracy is now becoming more computerized, and since they have your Son's Passport number I believe there's little possibility that he can avoid paying this fine. Waiting longer could potentially cause it to increase (as it apparently did when he was unable to pay "on the spot"). I've been fined for "incorrect reservations" on Italian trains (a mistake on my part, but a good "learning experience"), and there's really no way to avoid them. This is perhaps a good reminder that it's prudent to have at least one credit card for "emergencies". I've found on the trains, that Conductors are now carrying portable debit / credit card Terminals, so the payment is immediate. Given the fact that ATAC seems to have an effective method for collecting fines, it makes me wonder how long it will be before the ZTL fines are "computerized"? The scenario mentioned by Ron concerning the experience of his British friends is certainly plausible with ZTL fines also, with violators "nailed" at the airport when leaving. Cheers!

And just to clarify re train tickets, you only have to validate the ones that aren't for a specific time and seat. The fine print on the back makes that clear. But when in doubt, there's no downside to validating.

This topic certainly has been eye opening! Helping oneself to a free trip on the bus certainly amounts to "theft of services" but who would have guessed it would come with a 50 euro fine! Maybe the practice is so prevalent that only such a steep fine would discourage the practice. But, on the other hand, I am sure there are many honest errors made by tourists, too. I am planning my first trip to Italy and will double check any ticket for every mode of transportation before I get on.

Carrie, I don't know if it applies to buses, but I do know that on the trains in Italy, you have to also validate the ticket before you travel. It's easy to do, there are little boxes on the platforms- but you can get fined for that if you don't do it. Have a great trip!

Carrie, the fine in Copenhagen for not having a ticket on the S-trains or buses (by zones) is 700 DKK - or about $130! It's your responsibility to learn the rules. Like in Italy, ignorance is not an acceptable excuse in CPH. It's not a penalty directed at tourists and most folks who get caught in Italy are NOT tourists...

It never ceases to amaze me that some people will ask if it's ok not to pay a fine. But I'll give Debbie the benefit of doubt and hope that she's asking so she can win the arguement with her son that he SHOULD be paying...

I am pretty directionally challenged and have to think long and hard (sometimes) riding the metro here in the states to be sure I am on the correct platform and heading the right direction. What happens if you get on the wrong train or get going in the opposite direction? Im hoping such a thing doesn't happen, but is there a fine or do you just pay the correct fare and start over?

In response to Carrie; Since most metros operate on a zone basis, your ticket is good for any direction or distance, up to the limits of the zone, and in the case of Rome, sometimes for a set time period as well. If you do get on the wrong way, you can hop off at the next stop or two, find the platform for the other direction and move on. Penalties can be incurred if you travel outside the zone, or exceed the time limit. In both cases, if you are "close" you may get by, they really are looking for blatant violators. Probably the only "questionable" violation I regularly hear about is the 50 euro tickets given out for those failing to validate on the Leonardo Express. Yes, they clearly did not validate, but the ticket is clearly good for that one train, used mainly by tourists, and clearly made moot if they just punched the ticket on the train. Certainly not the best welcome to Rome.

Well, we all seem to be big on morality, without asking WHY he had no ticket. Did he try to get by, or did he just make a mistake? That's easy to do:
In Venice, we boarded a departing vaporetto with tickets, but having just arrived,didn't know we had to validate them on the dock-the deckhand just waived us along when we told him. Once we bought an all day pass, it didn't occur to us until halfway through the day that we had to validate it at every stop-pretty silly. On the fast train to Naples from Rome, we boarded in a hurry and forgot to validate-found a conductor right away and got our ticket stamped.No problem. When we got on the bus at Termini to go to the Borghese, and again in Vernazza boarding the train, NONE of the validation machines were working and everyone got on without validating their tickets. Of course, we were lucky in our ignorance. I think your son should pay the fine, but there's no point in condemning him for a mistake if that's all he did.

If you find yourself in a train station with no validating machines working, you should immediately seek a conductor before finding your place, seating etc. As for ATAC, ATM (Milan's equivalent) and the likes, they are far more rigorous than Trenitalia personnel when it comes fo enforcement. There are many foreigners and Italians trying to "game the system", and many others who make honest mistakes. As for a general rule, I suggesto those staying longer to buy multi-day or even monthly cards. This way the hassle of figuring out the correct number of zones and other transfer rules (between subway and buses/trams) is eliminated.

Jeff, the OP question clearly stated that he didn't buy a bus ticket. It said nothing about validation, which I admit is a common error amongst tourists. Now he and/or his mother wonders what happens if he doesn't pay the fine. Yes people make honest mistakes and in my experience, often conductors give some leeway for what seem to be honest misunderstandings by tourists. But not all do and some tourists try to game the system. In either way, he was in the wrong and should pay the fine.

Douglas,yes, you're right. That's the problem with staying up late!. I agree, he needs to pay the fine. As for immediately seeking a conductor if the validation machines aren't working, that's fine on the fast train, conductors abound.. On the trains through the CT, the ride's so short, no conductor comes into view. And, on the Circumvesuviana, for which we did validate tickets, there was not way a conductor or anyone wider than about 3 mm was going to move around that train.

Once we got on a train (I think it was a Regionale) and I realized we hadn't validated. I took our tickets and immediately walked all the way to the very front of the train looking for the conductor. I didn't find him until I got to the engine car (or whatever you call the very first car). Then I told the conductor we had forgotten to validate, pleaded stupidity, and he had mercy on me. He warned me not to do that again, and then handwrote the validation on the ticket.

My sister was fined in Rome even though she had a valid ticket. She was holding it against a sweating bottle of water and it wouldn't read in their machine. She paid the fine and got on with her trip. (by the way she wasn't carrying her passport, so had she not paid the fine on the spot they told her they would take her to the police station). She saw an Italian family on the same car pay the fine times four for the four of them with no tickets. Expensive family outing!

"Once we got on a train (I think it was a Regionale) and I realized we hadn't validated." I have always heard that in a pinch you could handwrite your validation in pen. Does anyone know if this is true, I have never done it.

If the machine is not working and you can't find a conductor you should hand write the date and time on the back of the ticket in pen. Donna

Writing it in by hand is better than doing nothing, but if the conductor comes by to take tickets he might think you wrote that when you saw him coming. That would be a way to scam the system, so don't expect a lot of tolerance for it, but again, it's better than doing nothing. I still would recommend walking all the way to the front of the train looking for the conductor. That way it's clear that you're not trying to get away with anything.