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Three month visit to Italy-best large town or small city?

I know that similar questions have been asked before, but not quite the same.
Having retired, my wife and I would like to live in Italy for three months. I speak poor Italian and my wife speaks a few words (but we are able to study hard).
I've come to the conclusion that the most important think to look for is a way to make connections to avoid isolation. So, I think the things we're looking for are:
-classes in italian
-art,humanities, culture classes at the local university
-an active enough expat community so we could go to events held by the group
-anything else readers could suggest that would help make connections.
We'd like to make some Italian acquaintances but recognize the difficulties with being there for a short time and not being fluent. Still, in previous visits I've found that you can make acquaintances if not friendships. I've noticed in different parts of the world that people are more willing to get to know you if the area isn't overwhelmed with tour buses.

We also are totally into the sidewalk cafe and walking around aspect - so a place with a nice walkable center would be essential.
Also, a place with classical concerts, museums, art openings would be nice but we don't require really the big names.

Day trips to nearby cities would be a plus but not essential.
People have suggested Verona, Bologna, Padua, and Lucca (we've only been to Padua).

We're really looking forward to getting used to seeing a different country in the news and a different perspective.

Any suggestions as to how to make local connections to avoid isolation, and which places might have the best of these, would be greatly appreciated (along with any other suggestions to make it a success).

Posted by
1034 posts

Major Caveat - I have not done this yet. I'm still in the dreaming and scheming stage, waiting for the day I can hand in my last corporate tower building pass and head to Italy.

However, I'm approaching it by looking for places where I can do the things I already like to do socially. Having a bit of skill in a hobby will hopefully help overcome language and cultural barriers. In my case, I participate in clubs for rowing and cross-country skiing here at home. So I've looked up the list of Italian rowing clubs and their locations. I'll probably pick northern Italy, since there are more lakes and mountains there to do both these things. In the area I've investigated, there are also lots of hiking clubs (and biking clubs, but seeing the muscles on those 70-year-olds, I couldn't keep up.) Anything that is both organized (so you can just sign up, not wait to be invited) and lengthy enough (so you have several hours to chat) is a good way to ease into local life, imo.

I've rowed with other clubs when I'm traveling, and I've participated in international regattas, and people are always so welcoming. So what do you do socially at home, and is it transferable to a group of people doing the same thing in Italy? (ok book clubs are probably out)

I'm also working hard on my Italian language skills, and it's something that really fills my soul while I'm waiting.

Other than the tip to look for clubs, I think you're on the right path - not too big, not too small, not too over-touristed. There's a poster on here named Karen who is on her way to Italy for a year - she chose Lake Maggiore. You might check her posts to read about her discovery process in finding the right place.

Edit: other tips - two years ago I did two separate one-week homestays with language instruction. One teacher in particular included me in her life. I had dinner with her mother and sister, walked around the town, talked about all sorts of things, and had daily one-on-one language lessons. I think that was way better for me than a language school with other transient foreigners, especially a bunch of young people. I think you would be able to make local connections better if you found someone like this in the town you choose to live in.

Also, I recommend reading Il Bel Centro, a chronicle of an American family who spent a year in Umbria not long ago. The author describes how they went about making connections in detail.

Posted by
7548 posts

This is in our plans as well. We have discussed that it likely will be Spring or Fall, though we are leaning toward only spending a month or so in one area, possibly doing long term stays in two or three places, until we find a place that clicks for future trips.

While Rome does attract us, we were leaning toward medium size cities, avoiding some of the top destinations. Padua came up, but we were also looking at Sicily and Southern Italy as well.

Our leanings are not as social as yours, but do love the outdoors, cooking, and cafe life.

Posted by
27111 posts

It's a little thing, but critical: If you don't intend to go through the process of obtaining a long-stay visa, you are limited to 90 days within any rolling 180-day period inside the Schengen Zone. Italy is one of the member countries. So do not plan on staying 3 months unless one of those months is February. You must count both your arrival day in the Zone and the day you depart.

Posted by
8889 posts

hinescom, you may already have got this covered, but do you know about the Schengen limits?
Unless you are a EU/Schengen Area citizen (and I am guessing you aren't), then you are only allowed to stay in the Schengen Area (which includes Italy) for 90 days in any 180.
90 days being slightly less than 3 months, you could stay nearly 3 months, then you would have to leave the Schengen Area until the 180 days is up. If you want to stay longer, you need to get an Italian Residence Permit (visa). It can be done, but you need to do the paperwork before you leave for Italy.

Sorry if that sounded negative, I wish you luck and a good stay.

Posted by
11156 posts

When reading your post, Bologna immediately came to mind. I would be very happy spending three months there.It’s University is one of the oldest in
Europe. We saw students wearing t-shirts that said 1088, the year the University of Bologna was founded.
For a smaller town, I would return to Spello where we spent two weeks.

Posted by
1223 posts

We have done it. Not for threemonths, as you intend, but for two months on four separate occasions. Each time it has been Venice.
Culture is a given.
The Biennale happens each year.
The expat community gathers at St Georges, Campo San Vio, 10:30 for church.
Language school in Campo Margerita.

Posted by
5 posts

Thanks for the suggestions -- really helpful. The one about hobbies is something I didn't think of. Also, glad to see it can work in Venice.

I appreciate the advice about 90 days vs 3 months. Actually, the "three months" ideas was a sloppy of referring to the same thing. I should watch my accuracy!
Does anyone have any idea as to which universities have cultural programs/classes that aren't just for study away youths or regular enrollees?
Thanks again

Posted by
15165 posts

With or without a car?
Without a car, small town living is challenging, at least in most towns.

I don’t know the size of the city you are looking for, but Bologna falls in the large city category in my book, since is even larger than Florence.

If you are looking for a place with several North American (US/Canadian) immigrants to connect with, Venice, Florence and Bologna will have a good number. I’m not of course mentioning Rome or Milan. They also have large university populations and cultural activities. I would choose among those, also because they are big enough, yet not overwhelming megalopolis. Florence has the largest number of schools and art/cultural institutions for foreign students, as well as about 30 to 40 branch campuses of foreign universities. I would go to Florence, then once fluent you can explore less cosmopolitan locales.

Smaller towns and villages are actually the best place to connect with locals, but you can’t connect with locals in small villages without speaking Italian.

Posted by
1223 posts

Venice has huge numbers of tourists, mostly staying for less than a handful of days. So when the check out person at Conad sees you for the fourth time, you are a novelty and of interest. After a little while, the person behind the bar will remember what coffee you like, or whether your spritz is Aperol or Campari.

Happened to us a week ago in Campo San Barnaba. Walked into a bar that we had patronised a year ago for breakfast. Two cappucinos made without even asking, hugs, photos of children and grand children shared. It made us feel a bit like locals.

Posted by
1388 posts

My husband and I stayed in Florence for 5 weeks last fall and would have been happy to be there for 90 days. Maybe 90 years. I took History of Art classes at the British institute, loved the daily lectures and visits to museums, neighborhoods, art galleries, and churches. It was easy to make friends --- the month-long course I took was about half and half people my age and younger people, all from around the world, but English speakers. My husband took all-day intensive Italian language classes at Scuola Michelangelo and also made friends and visited museums, etc. with the class. He also went to concerts and operas. We were so busy we only went on two day trips, to Pistoia and to Montelupo, but it was as easy as could be by train.

Our quiet apartment was on a pedestrian-only street just inside the old city walls and it was basically like living in a smaller town. Plenty of places to eat, have coffee, get gelato, etc. often with seating right on the street. About three blocks from a big farmers market and from a regular supermarket. Hardware stores, bakeries, and other just normal shops.

I would strongly recommend choosing either late fall/early winter or late winter/early spring for your 90 days --- our previous week-long trip to Florence was in December and it was MUCH less crowded and hot than in September/early October.

We have stayed for 3 to 10 days in many lovely small towns and cities in Italy (including Venice, Lucca, and Bologna) and we did not at all expect to love Florence. But it is now where we would live if we could. Well, let's say from September to May.

Let the forum know what you decide!

Posted by
2469 posts

Sandra and others who are living in Italy,
Do your friends from home come to visit you? I myself would love to live in Europe, I think of England because I get homesick for hearing English when I’m traveling. In April I was in Paris and Amsterdam for 11 days longing to hear English.

Nancy, your description of living in Florence sounds so wonderful, the quintessential experience of the Italian lifestyle. It’s my dream. Maybe I have to learn Italian. I studied Latin and German in school so maybe I could learn it.

Posted by
2469 posts

Webmaster,
Do you think you could set up a link on the forum for those posters who are considering living in Europe, call it “Dreams of Living in Europe”.

Posted by
15165 posts

You are staying in the country for just 90 days. That doesn’t qualify as living in the country, it’s a long vacation, so no need to fret over which city to go to. Just choose a city you like with enough things to visit and do around there.

As to the language, I wouldn’t worry too much. You speak English, which is the lingua franca, so you will survive. Look at the singer Sting. He has lived in Tuscany for over 10 years, and his Italian is so horrible that Italian comedian and impersonator Maurizio Crozza makes fun of him constantly.
https://youtu.be/Vyy6MrF4mSw

Posted by
5 posts

Anyone have a good way to find about short courses in Italy (in English ;-( ?
Florence does sound good, and Pisa has a nice course in Italian Language and Culture, but only in the summer. It's be nice to find a horticultural course as well as art...

Still looking...will check out some of everybody's ideas.

I appreciate and actually agree that three months isn't like living somewhere, but we can dream, can't we?
But I think that makes it more important to try to pick someplace we'll be happy.

Again, thanks. I'd love to hear about others pursuing a similar idea.

Posted by
2 posts

I"m thinking/dreaming of living/long vacation in Italy. Since reading this tread/Q&A/Blog...lol Guess I need not only learn Italian but also Computer language...lol
Seems I have a lot of hurdles to jump and questions to ask...my mind has exploded. I really had no ideal it was going to be this difficult. I'm thinking as I'm clickety-clackety away here...no, it's must a lot of decisions that have to be made. This is my deal...2 months ago I made a decision if I'm ever going to fulfil my dream of going to Italy it is now not later (3 years down the road). I had no ideal about this 1) obtaining a long term Visa
2) getting an Italian residents permit (Visa)
3) medical card (I just started looking into)
4) or a 90 day stay (which I really don't want that because for me I have to give up my home here to make another home there) when I decide to come back here I'll be back for good!
Unless of course I love it so such I stay and make it my forever home! 😍
I think I need some help with this anyone have a suggestions????😕

Posted by
15807 posts

jaymejamieson10:

4) or a 90 day stay (which I really don't want that because for me I
have to give up my home here to make another home there) when I decide
to come back here I'll be back for good!

Jayme, it's best if you create a NEW thread with your questions as if you want to stay longer than the 90 days allowed for a U.S. tourist (what citizenship do you hold?) you have a completely different situation than the OP's 3months/90 days. As Roberto said, that's just a long vacation that isn't considered "moving" to Italy for a long-term stay. That's a different animal altogether.

Posted by
1943 posts

While Rick is mainly about vacationing in Europe, I agree that a board topic about Moving or Short Term living in Europe would be helpful.

To OP: my parents were toying with the idea of short-term stays in Europe. However once they investigated not only how to live over there but what to do about their life in US, they decided not to do it. The internet has all kinds of blogs about people who have moved both short term and long term to Europe. I urge you to read those blogs and perhaps you can write to the authors.

As for everyone speaking English in Europe, that may or may not be true. I knew of a couple who moved to Rome for an work assignment for the wife. While he was the most gregarious person in the US and took Italian classes, he still never quite felt at home due to not understanding the language well, sure he could ask for the basic things and the small shops tried to speak English for him, but the small things like chatting with neighbors and making small talk with Italians was difficult due to language barrier. He was never happier than when he moved back to the US.

Posted by
1944 posts

Perchance to dream...on a long weekend. What a good idea...

Almost to a man or woman (especially on this forum), those who travel to Italy and have felt its inner fabric let their mind wander about wanting to see what it would be like...to up and leave here and go there. OK, not to move permanently but more realistically to 'visit' within the Schengen restriction, 89 days. And taking the fantasy a bit further, let's assume one wouldn't have to work to pay the rent during that time.

For me, although the thought of a month apiece in 3 venues has its allure, I think I would choose a central, singular, vibrant base with prime transportation options, and rent a very inexpensive studio apartment with a galley kitchen--50 Euro/night or less. That way, for my occasional journeys to and fro, even with an overnighter here & there, I wouldn't feel too bad that I'm double-paying.

Whether it would be myself or with my wife, the key here is socialization. And I've found in three trips abroad to various parts of the mainland and Sicily, the Italians are open but guarded. They size up visitors--especially Americans--better than anyone, but like us initial impressions by them can be deceiving. And I am not so naive as to think that some/most of our conversations are anything but of the vendor/tourist garden variety.

But at some point on each trip, I sensed a personal breakthrough with a shopkeeper, a neighbor or landlord after 3 or 4 days, only to have to leave the following day for the next destination. And I always wondered 'what-if' as in, what if after a week or two we developed a mutual trust and became friends? Would I be accepted more than the transient interloper tourist? Would I be invited to their house for dinner? I can't explain why I crave that type of interaction, but I do.

Communicating while I'm there with the ex-pat community is all fine and well, and I'd probably chat them up out of loneliness, and I know they serve a purpose. But that's not why I would embark on this journey. It's about gradual assimilation, doing my own honest thing without pushing and having my local Italian community accepting of me, as just another friend of Italian descent who is from the States but understands and embraces the way things operate in their homeland.

If you are asking me where I'd attempt this, I can only say Rome.

Posted by
1223 posts

I guess not too many have done the dream, spending a bunch of time in Italy, mostly we are just unsatisfied dreamers.
We got lucky on our first trip to Italy, Venice in particular, as we only spent five or six nights in Venice. Before we were half way to Verona, we had started to plan the return visit, staying for two months. We knew that six nights had barely scratched the surface. We have now had half a dozen long stays in Venice, typically for a couple of months. In total, we have spent about a year’s worth of days in Venice, spread over nine trips.

Picking a town for a long stay will always be a compromise. You want it small enough that you can relate and engage, getting a feel for the neighbourhood, and yet large enough that there is enough happening to keep you interested and intellectually challenged. In a big city, it will be hard to find the expat community, the Anglophones, and in a small place the expat community will not exist.

In Venice, we hooked into the Anglophone community via St George’s Church, where they drink prosecco and eat snacks after the service before repairing to the Corner Pub for lunch. It’s an easy way to get to know people. And because Venice is very much a university town, there is a fair bit happening. I am not sure what courses the Foscari Uni might offer in English, but that might be a starting place.

And after a while, you do get to know some local people, mostly on a fairly trivial level. Street buskers, who remember us from six years ago, a woman, Annelie, who runs a linen shop near San Barnaba who we’ve known for ten years. Lou, my wife, had studied Italian a bit and wanted conversation; she intended putting a notice on a university notice board, I’ll buy you a drink, you speak Italian. Annelie was horrified, instead introducing Lou to a family friend, Martina. That was eight years ago, and since then we’ve seen Martina’s baby, stayed with them in the Veneto, Lou has proof read articles written by Marie for journals. In all, a precious connection from a simple request, although not of great benefit to Lou’s Italian. .

With the Anglophones, I had started an on-line conversation with an English woman who was a Venetian nut case, had visited Venice heaps of times. Eventually she, Caroline, and her husband Phil moved to Venice, and that gave us something of an introduction into the expat diaspora. Phil has written a couple of novels set in Venice, google Phillip Gwyne Jones and you would find him. Or take a look at https://philipgwynnejones.com/

So I guess what I’ve written is all about our experience. One thing I do know is that you need to have a fall back activity, something to do when you are totally over museums, churches, galleries, whatever. You need an activity, a hobby. For us, I scribble trip reports which use way too many words and yield not much useful information, Lou paints watercolours. If you are contemplating a long stay anywhere, it helps if you have some sort of agenda, a path, a focus. One time in Venice for me was to see every Tiepolo painting I could lay my eyes on, another time was architecture by Carlo Scarpa, September two years ago was the architecture Biennale, this September it is the archi biennale again, and I’ll spend seventeen nights in Venice, maybe a trip to Trieste. Next May, there’s the Venetian launch of Phil’s third novel, so we will come for that, and stay for two and a half weeks before maybe Florence and some rural Tuscany.

For what it’s worth, we have kept track of the money over several long visits. Apartment living, eating out not infrequently, has cost us about 100 euro a day. Plus rent of course.

Don’t be put off by the people who say that an 89 day visit is not really living in a place. Yes, true. And maybe they are just envious.

Posted by
5 posts

Thanks again to everybody for their help -- I hope many are benefiting.
I was initially writing off Venice and Florence just because of my experience was that because they are soooo flood with tourists the locals might have no interest in talking to foreigners and you might feel that you are traveling in a bubble of tourists, not a foreign country. But two postings have gotten rid of that fear.

We're going to keep researching for a while. The British Institute in Florence seems like a great resource. I've noticed that most cities in Italy have pretty good resources for taking Italian, but it's harder to find where there are other enrichment courses or activities that would help you get connections. For example, my wife would love to take a class at one of the botanical gardens in horticulture (okay, shortish, and in english ;-( but there doesn't seem to be anything. Also, as far as I can see, Italian universities don't have much of the continuing education opportunities you find in some American universities.

So, I see a big hole as far as resources for short but longer-term visitors for activities. I will post what I find but any help from others would be great.

The idea of hobbies (with the example of rowing or bicycling) is great.
Thx again.

Posted by
15165 posts

Florence and Venice have plenty of tourists for sure, but there are neighborhoods, even within the historical center, where the tourist presence is not as overwhelming and actually practically nearly absent. Also, as you move just outside the historical center of Florence (basically outside the city walls perimeter), the presence of tourists is zero or just about zero. That also means that as you move just outside the historical center, Italian language skills become more important.

Posted by
1944 posts

Right, Roberto--

We had the benefit of spending a couple of days on our last trip not in the central district of Rome but probably a few miles northeast of there, near our friends' apartment north of Porta Pia on via Nomentana. And they introduced us to the neighborhood folks--shopkeepers, neighbors, etc. And although it was still technically Rome, it was like a small village of its own--certainly with the area's relics & churches, but also the tabacchi shops, lavanderias and cafes. We loved that experience!

Posted by
1034 posts

Now that you're considering larger cities, I see that no one has yet proposed Turin as a possible home. I love the Piedmont region generally, and Turin specifically, from several visits. It is less touristed, yet has many Italian language study options. It has great neighbourhoods, things to do, and transit to pretty places in the countryside. It could also be cheaper than Venice or Florence, I haven't really checked. I recommend putting it on your research list, or at very least an interesting place to visit.

And...a third-hand but dissenting opinion on Bologna. My first Italian teacher here in Calgary grew up in Bologna. She loved it but said it's an absolute steam bath half the year since it sits in a low bowl surrounded by hills. She ended up hating the climate. I've never been, but I'm not much for oppressive heat and humidity without some relief from mountains or open water. Turin was very hot when I was there in July and August, but outside of the city there were mountains and breezes.