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Thieves of Rome

We just returned to New York from Rome. And, as per prior experience, we found it an enchanting city with marvelous historical sites and great, great restaurants. However, it seems that the thieves in Rome are not just the pickpockets. Unfortunately, we witnessed a shameful scene where the representatives of the Metrebus Roma, the transit police, charged, assessed fines and collected 40 Euro each for not having validated a 1 trip ticket. This occurred on metrobus #64 at 10:30AM June 19 2024. We boarded the bus at the Via Nazionale/ Via Milano stop headed toward St. Peter’s Basilica. The bus was so overcrowded that there was no opportunity to approach the date stamp at the rear of the bus. At a given stop ( I do not recall which), many local people exited, mostly tourists remained. Before the bus proceeded a policeman boarded the bus at the middle door and two female offices, who had been secluded in the rear most seat popped up. All of them proceeded to fine as many unsuspecting, naïve tourists as possible forcing them to use their credit cards for payment.
This sort of entrapment and selective enforcement was unbefitting a magnificent city such as Rome. These cops knew that the remaining passengers were tourists and, my guess, is that they spring this trap everyday. None of these people were fare evaders, they were just caught unawares. And, none of them were told that they had the opportunity to apply for a refund. In my opinion, these cops were given a high Euro quota that they were required to fulfill. Tourists were just an easy target.

The lesson to be learned there is when in Rome…take a taxi!

Posted by
7189 posts

Welcome to the forum!
I see this is your first post

Many of us know that if you can’t get to the validation machine then you can write the time and date on your ticket instead

Moral of your story get your ticket validated

Posted by
23627 posts

NO -- the lesson learned is to VALIDATE your ticket. Until the ticket is validate YOU ARE a freeloader. When caught violating local rules and regulations, it is always the other persons fault for not telling you what you should have known. If you had spent some prior time on this site, you would have known that this issue is frequently discussed.

Posted by
693 posts

The procedure for transportation is clear. It is the responsibility of the traveler (passenger) to follow those guidelines. I’ve had to inch my way to the validation machine to ensure compliance. I’ve never forgotten the crushing sardine like experience on the H bus in Rome back in 2014. Our group of seven did what we had to do to comply. In one instance when we couldn’t get close enough we passed our tickets to a stranger near the machine to validate them. I’ve seen (on trains) individuals being fined in other countries including the U.S. for not having (or not validating) the proper travel ticket.

Posted by
10637 posts

Love the title of your post. Very clever and well-written. But yes, you’re supposed to write on the back of your ticket, and this info desperately needs to be added to the guidebooks. Now you know.

But maybe the controllers do know that the tourists are like fish in a barrel. In perspective, the fine is still a tiny fraction of the travel budget.

After reading what our Italian contributors say about taxis in Rome, I'm not sure that's the best solution. How about the Rome subway?

Posted by
3080 posts

It’s my understanding that if you have a 7-day pass, you do not have to validate it. Is this correct? Or do you need to validate the first ride?

Posted by
23627 posts

I thought you had to validate one time to get the seven day clock running.

Posted by
1215 posts

I realize this was upsetting for the OP. Hopefully others will read this and know how to avoid getting fined. They (ATAC) aren't, however, thieves, and tourists aren't targeted. One does, though, have to know the rules. When in Rome, as they say...

This has been posted before, from the ATAC website. I know this references a malfunctioning validation machine, but the same holds true if you just can't get to the machine...

"In case of validator malfunction:
on public transport vehicles (buses, trams, trolleybuses, Metro lines and Regional railways as well as on Cotral buses, write date, time and name of the station or vehicle number on your ticket;"

https://www.atac.roma.it/en/tickets-and-passes/roma24h#:%7E:text=on%20public%20transport%20vehicles%20(buses,office%20or%20to%20the%20conductor

Posted by
3080 posts

Thanks Frank. That's the same a Vienna. Berlin's 7-day ticket was through their app and didn't need to be validated.

Posted by
3501 posts

You can also pass your ticket up the bus via the other people to get someone to validate it for you, then pass it back.
I have done this a few times on busy Italian buses.
People are happy to help you if you are polite.

Sorry, OP…..them’s the rules.

Posted by
1275 posts

Is there no momentum in Rome to move to a more modern system of tap and go payment, like you'd find in London or in The Netherlands? This whole validating system seems to be a little less than user friendly.

Posted by
16563 posts

It’s my understanding that if you have a 7-day pass, you do not have
to validate it. Is this correct? Or do you need to validate the first
ride?

Horsewoofie, according to Rome's ATAC website, you do need to validate a weekly (CIS) pass the first time you use it. That validation starts the clock ticking on the validity period of the pass.

https://www.atac.roma.it/en/tickets-and-passes/cis

Under "Remember to":
"Make sure you validate your ticket at the beginning of your journey"

"You find validators on buses, trams, trolleybuses, Regional rail trains Termini-Centocelle, Roma-Viterbo and in stations at the turnstiles for access to the Metro lines, the Roma-Lido and Trenitalia regional railways."

Gerry, however the city of Rome decides to mange their system is their business. They may retain the validation process for paper tickets/passes for locals who don't have credit cards - not everyone in the world has them - so they can use single-ride tickets or multi-day passes without them. We've used single-ride paper tickets in Rome ourselves and actually prefer not having to haul our credit cards out where just anyone can see where we keep them.

Posted by
1215 posts

Is there no momentum in Rome to move to a more modern system of tap and go payment,

Yep...

https://www.atac.roma.it/en/tickets-and-passes/tap-go

Don't know if this would help in the OP's situation of an overcrowded bus, though, where the readers aren't easily accessible. Perhaps these readers are located by all the doors?

Posted by
1275 posts

Gerry, however the city of Rome decides to mange their system is their business. They may retain the validation process for paper tickets/passes for locals who don't have credit cards - not everyone in the world has them - so they can use single-ride tickets or multi-day passes without them. We've used single-ride paper tickets in Rome ourselves and actually prefer not having to haul our credit cards out where just anyone can see where we keep them.

Of course it's Rome's business how they manage their system. Doesn't stop me from having an opinion on it though :)

If the organisation that runs the tram system is able to collect hundreds, maybe thousands of penalty fares every day, not through fare dodging, but user error, it would suggest to me something is broken.

If there's any parallels between Rome and London, where I have most of my experience, the idea that paper tickets make the system more accessible to the "locals" with lower fiscal means doesn't really hold much water. Before cash was abolished on London buses its use was low as one percent of all journeys in 2014.
It doesn't need to be a contactless system based around credit and debit cards. Why don't the trams in Rome have a contactless reader of any type in 2024? Is there no call amongst Rome residents to have a more up to date system?

Another major difference is debit card usage in Europe compared to The US. You mention not everyone has a credit card, which is very true, but almost everyone (in a major European capital city at least) who has a bank account has a debit card that they use every day. I use my debit card for public transport in London every day and it's not an issue about where I keep it.

Posted by
4600 posts

But yes, you’re supposed to write on the back of your ticket, and this
info desperately needs to be added to the guidebooks. Now you know.

Good point. The "thieves" like to pounce in Venice and Paris as well. I can't recall if it's addressed in those guidebooks.

I remember early one morning hopping on a Vaporetto in Venice just in time to watch 3 American seniors wagging their fingers in the face of a young transit cop using their loud outdoor voices that it was criminal what was happening. How were they to know they needed a ticket to ride, "we're American." Then the seniors got abusively rude and I thought the locals- who were clearly getting fed up with the behaviour were going to throw them overboard. I had never wanted to NOT look like a North American tourist so much in my life.

Posted by
16563 posts

Yes, of course it's fine to have an opinion! Sorry if it came off otherwise. :O)
What I was trying to say is that whatever any of us think about the system is of no consequence to the OP or to the Powers That Be in charge of transport. It is what it is. One way or another, paper or contactless, you have to pay for the ride when you board. Local or tourist. No excuses.

Payment can be contactless should you be able to do it that way. Still, just as our OP's issue was trying to get to the validation machine on a crowded bus, this poster - nancys8 - had the same problem getting to the tap-and-go reader with their cards...of which everyone had to have their own and I believe that includes minors too old to ride free. So, in some cases they were more comfortable with paper tickets. Anyway, it's good to have more than one option, and paper can also be convenient for stays where one uses public transport very little, as has been the case for us.

https://community.ricksteves.com/travel-forum/italy/rome-contactless-public-transport

Posted by
1275 posts

Ah yes Kathy of course no worries!

I think in general paper tickets are on borrowed time everywhere.

I've never been to Rome, but from the amount of posts I see on here with the same problem, it's a failing system. I know you should get a ticket and validate it and everyone knows that but if they have people out levying quite substantial fines for errors day in day out, that's catching a lot of people out, visitors or not, something isn't quite right with how the service is being provided. I don't know if this has always been the case or the enforcement is more recent.

You're right that it's not up to RSE posts or tourists in general to fix it. It's down to the people of Rome. They probably don't care because they're all using contactless anyway :)

Posted by
16563 posts

Hmmm, I'm thinking heavy-using locals are more likely using monthly or annual passes that only need initial validation. But I guess we'd have to ask some of 'em?

Posted by
1275 posts

I'm out of my comfort zone, posting opinion pieces late at night in the Italy forum, so I'm not sure how many would be using monthly tickets in Rome. If it is anything like London, that has sort of gone the way of the dodo with the ease of use of daily capped contactless payments [edit: of course monthlies on paper tickets don't even exist in TfL land now]. There's only people with a few fringe use cases using that method now. You're right that we'd need to check in with the Romans, or try to pull some stats from Italian language sites.

Posted by
3447 posts

They weren't thieves. They were just people who didn't understand the local rules, and were fined accordingly for not validating their tickets. Otherwise, some unscrupulous sorts would continue to plead ignorance and keep using the same 1-trip ticket.

Posted by
1275 posts

The system seems like a bit of a hangover from when the trams would have been two-person crewed. There would have been a conductor to either sell the tickets or validate them.

Posted by
16086 posts

Transit inspector was my dad’s job in Florence for a few years after the years when he was a bus driver and before becoming a supervisor. It was in the early 1970s. At dinner he used to tell us stories about those young American hippies schlepping a backpack and sleeping bag, boarding the buses without tickets with a silly excuse or another. The concept was new then, as the human ticket vendors on board had just been replaced by automatic vending machines, but they often came up with crazy excuses like “we thought buses were free in Europe”, or “the driver wouldn’t take our payments”.

Posted by
7828 posts

Fred, others have commented about the bus situation. I will share that taking a taxi isn’t always the best option, either. I was in Rome in May and took a taxi from Roma Termini over to the Pantheon area for my hotel. The streets are so clogged with traffic and pedestrians that it took about the same amount of time to ride the taxi as it took for me to walk to the train station when I was leaving Rome. The only advantage was my taxi driver & I had a nice conversation with my limited Italian, and I wasn’t as hot since I was riding in a car.

Posted by
3 posts

Pretty misleading..regular transit rules isn't thievery. Rules apply to everyone regardless of if you're a tourist. For those who are heading to Rome - you need to validate your ticket, no excuses. The buses I encountered typically had three doors. If you have a paper ticket, you validate it by inserting it into the machine at the rear of the bus (3rd door). When the bus was packed, an "excuse me" or "scusa" or "permesso" worked to squeeze by people and make my way to the back of the bus to validate the ticket. Always keep a pen handy and alternatively you can validate your ticket by writing the date and time on the back of the ticket. If you aren't hopping on the bus with luggage (middle door is usually best when you have luggage as there is more open space to maneuver your luggage) then I'd suggest getting on at the 3rd door at the back for easy access to the validation machine. I also saw a few people get on the bus without purchasing paper tickets. They were also checked by the transit police but had no problems as they tapped their card at the machine on the front of the bus (I can't speak much to how it worked since I always used paper ticket but you could tell when it worked because it would chime and the light would turn green after tapping).

Posted by
742 posts

Having experienced being stuffed like sardines on a bus in Rome 10 years ago, on our trip this May we walked almost everywhere. Rome is a very walkable city; our hotel was near Campo de Fiori so nothing was more than a 30 minute stroll. On a few occasions we took a taxi. We always verified that we could see the meter and it was set at €3 when we started. Fares were very reasonable and if you have 2 or 3 people it’s not that much more money and so much more comfortable than taking a bus! It’s very possible to explore Rome without using any public transportation!

Posted by
441 posts

In recent months, Travel Forum posts have described situations when buses in Rome were so crowded that it was difficult to get to a machine to validate a ticket. Forearmed with this knowledge, when in Rome a month ago, I chose the strategy of buying a 7 day transit pass which covered both Metro and bus. I only had to validate it the first time I rode a bus.

Posted by
182 posts

In May of 2023, I was on a crowded bus with my traveling companion & this was her first time to Rome. Because we’d just got off of a 2 wk cruise from the States & because the bus was crowded…I didn’t think of pushing my way up to the machine to validate. Got off the bus at the train station & was immediately approached by two uniformed “authorities”…one man, one woman. They wanted to see our validated tickets. Oops!! We hadn’t stuck them in the machine. Each of us were fined on the spot: €69…yes! Both of us had to pull out our credit cards. My “friend” was so upset with me because I had been to Rome before & I should have known better. It was a bad start to our week in Rome & she was mad about it for the rest of the trip. I was sick about being fined THAT MUCH. She wanted to go to the Embassy & complain.

Posted by
182 posts

I suggest using Uber or taxis in & around Rome & Naples. They are the best way of insuring that you won’t be robbed by the metro police or the pickpockets who LOVE crowded buses & subways. They are taxis are at the taxi stands which are everywhere. The Ubers were great & cheaper than the taxis & will pick you up anywhere on the streets. Stay away from public transportation!!

Posted by
33887 posts

Uber in Italy? Cheaper than taxis? Which Uber do you mean?

Posted by
16086 posts

In 2023 the fine for not validating the ticket in Rome was 100€ with a 50% discount if paid within 5 days. Even today it’s 104.90€ or discounted at 50% if paid within 5 days (it comes to 54.90 with admin fees). So it was never 69€, if paid on the spot (which I don’t know it is still possible in 2024).

I disagree with the notion that Uber is cheaper than taxicabs. It is true that taxicabs charge a 3€ flag down fee at the start of the ride. That is common also elsewhere. In San Francisco the flag rate for the first 1/5 of a mile is $4.15, then $0.65 per fifth of mile thereafter. Since July 2022 Uber has an agreement with ItTaxi radiotaxi app in Rome, whereby you can summon a regular taxi using the Uber app (however Uber will apply a commission of about 3€ per ride).

Posted by
1679 posts

"Berlin's 7-day ticket was through their app and didn't need to be validated." – It's validated by the start date you enter in the app.

Posted by
16086 posts

One cannot to go to jail for not paying the fine, even if is never paid. It is not classified as a crime but an administrative fee, much like a parking ticket. If you were asked to pay 69€ and threatened with jail time there is a chance that was not legitimate official.

Posted by
16086 posts

This is what happens with a bus fine.
https://www.laleggepertutti.it/371708_multa-autobus-senza-biglietto-che-succede-se-non-si-paga

Cost of the fine for traveling without a valid ticket in Rome.
https://www.atac.roma.it/utility/pago-multe

These are the differences between an administrative sanction, such as the above, and a criminal sanction which could result in an arrest.
https://www.laleggepertutti.it/384933_differenza-tra-sanzioni-civili-penali-e-amministrative

Google Translate is available if Italian law and/or language in not one’s expertise.

Posted by
7189 posts

I didn't realize that you could be stopped and fined after riding, off the bus?

I have no experience with bus travel in Rome, we've walked most everywhere, taxi now and then.
But I do know you must validate. Just like most public transportation we've taken throughout Europe.

Posted by
1169 posts

Certainly tourists need to be cautious and careful; they also need to know the local rules and laws, and follow them. One should never attribute to thievery what is a result of failure to know and follow local rules. I've had to pay fees in other countries because I didn't know the rules. It's just one of the risks of travel.

Posted by
16086 posts

Christine. A ticket inspector cannot. S/he cannot even prevent you from getting off the bus even if you don’t have a ticket at all and refuse to give your ID. Doing so would be a blatant violation of art. 610 of the Italian Penal code. Only a police officer has that power, but not a ticket inspector (my dad wished he had that power). The ticket inspector has to ask for the intervention of a law enforcement officer to go beyond asking for tickets and/or the names (he cannot even force you to show your ID. However my father often checked tickets while accompanied by agents of Florence Municipal police or sometimes, at night, even the State Police, so this might be such instance. This account however sounds strange. The amount does not match the fine amount, the practice of requiring on the spot payment threatening arrest is not legal for an administrative sanction, even if the person were a police officer accompanying the ticket inspector. Also the request must be made on the bus or at most at bus stop immediately after descending the bus. Threatening arrest for payment of ann administrative sanction would be the equivalent of a police officer threatening to arrest you if you don’t pay a parking ticket on the spot. From what is being said here, it is either some scammer posing as a public official, or an abusive public official who went way beyond what the law would permit to do.

Posted by
33887 posts

quoting berry

I didn’t think of pushing my way up to the machine to validate. ... My “friend” was so upset with me because I had been to Rome before & I should have known better.

So you knew, and failed to act. Yet you blame people doing their jobs.

To other posters - this was Fred's post and inactive since June. We are now discussing berry's story about an incident in May 2023.

Posted by
1295 posts

Not Rome, but Firenze. Impossibly crowded bus. People handed their tickets to others right down the bus, to validate them.

It showed a most delightful way of communities working together. Really, a very special experience. I remember it, even though I do not remember now where we were going.

Posted by
10637 posts

"My “friend” was so upset with me because I had been to Rome before & I should have known better. It was a bad start to our week in Rome & she was mad about it for the rest of the trip. I was sick about being fined THAT MUCH. She wanted to go to the Embassy & complain."

I see it differently, Nigel. OKay, admittedly they didn't validate. First moment back in Rome. It slipped past him.
But, Berry was scammed and then the companion was mad at him for this little thing for the rest of the trip. How awful to be with someone who guilt trips over 69 Euros. Way to control another person and ruin a vacation.

Posted by
7189 posts

Thank you Roberto for that explanation
That story above sounded a bit off
So most likely they got scammed

I agree with Elizabeth-don’t think I’d travel again with a “friend“ like that

Posted by
23627 posts

We really enjoy Rome. Since '92 we have spent over 30 days in Rome scattered over five, maybe six, visits. Haven't seem a scam yet or been pickpocketed or fined for a ticket validation. I have stepped off more than one bus when I realized it was going to be impossible to get to the validation box. I am never in a big hurry that I cannot wait for the next bus. A couple of time the correct amount of change has been a little slow but I just stand them, act a little dumb, and correct my change in firm voice as it is delivered. Never hand money to a taxi driver or a vendor without telling him what the bill is, "20 Euro, Right?" We try to understand how the system works.

Fred, your are correct, The lesson to be learned there is when in Rome is to do as the Romen's do. Validate your ticket or buy a pass.

Posted by
16086 posts

I think the Berry poster was traced to a post in Tripadvisor, where she posted details of the incident and even photos of the 'ticket inspectors'.

It doesn't appear to be a scam. Not long ago ATAC, the Rome's transit agency, requested the Latium regional government to appoint some ATAC employees as Administrative Police officers (Polizia Amministrativa). Below is an article about it with some newly appointed ATAC Administrative Police officers pictured with the then Mayor of Rome, Ms. Virginia Raggi.
https://www.romatoday.it/politica/autisti-atac-polizia-amministrativa.html

Administrative Police authority, according to Italian law, is a set of functions carried out by 'agents', who are not necessarily "judicial police officers'. The ATAC employees appointed as Administrative Police officers, are not Judicial Police officers, and therefore have more limited powers. They can issue a ticket for an administrative violation (such as traveling on the bus without a valid ticket) and can request to provide the name to the violator, but, not having the power of a 'judicial police officer' cannot force someone to exhibit an ID, cannot carry out an arrest, cannot search a person. For these purposes, the Administrative Police officer, must request the help of 'Judicial Police Officer' (such as a Carabiniere, or State Police officer, or Municipal Police officer.

From the photos posted by Berry on TripAdvisor, it appears that those 'agents' were the same 'Administrative Police Officers' mentioned in the article. The TA post also mentions the poster and the friend were fined $59, which is in line with the actual fine, which is 100€+4.90€ adm. fee, but, if paid within 5 days, become 50€+4.90€ (=54.90€).
I'm still dubious that those agents threatened to jail the passengers, since that would be an administrative fine (like a parking ticket) and jail time is not contemplated for this type of infractions, since it does not constitute a criminal act sanctioned by the Penal Code. If they did in fact threaten to arrest, that would have been a violation of their authority.

Posted by
10 posts

Same thing happened to me as a student on the metro in Vienna in 2007. I feel like Europe 101 is validate your ticket.