Thello train from Nice to Milan

Hi francene. Likely your plan will work fine. Enjoy your trip.

Thanks, Bob. Have you taken Thello since April 2015? Do you have personal experience you can share with me regarding these trains? I'm hoping! If not, can you add to your encouraging words and tell me anything about your train travel that might assist me? I really very much want to hear from whoever has experience with these trains. How are the seats? How is the food? Do they tend to run on time? And any other impressions you think others might find valuable. And, if you've eaten at Bistrot Centrale, I'd love to hear about that too. Thank you!

Hasn't ANYONE taken the Thello train? Not the night train. I would so love to hear from you! Anyone???

Francine, don't give up! The person(s) who can answer your question may not check in every day.

Have you tried searching "Thello"? Or post in the France forum?

Zoe, I have read everything I can find online, including the Thello site. But none of that includes personal impressions from travelers. I've learned so much over the past many months from folks who post on this forum that I am really hoping to hear from someone who has actually traveled on a Thello train, preferably between Nice and Milan, (and not the night train). Thank you for your words of encouragement. I am so eager to hear from someone but I will try to be patient!

At one level a train is a train. Food and car comfort about the same. The Thello trains tend to be a touch nicer (whatever that means) since the equipment is newer but other than that our experience with other Thello trains is that it is very similar to other high speed trains. Since you are very focused on this issue is there a major concern about the Thello trains that you have not mentioned?

Frank, my impression from many reviews of the Thello night trains on this and other sites was somewhat negative. i was hoping to hear positive experiences from people who had actually taken the Thello day train on one of these new schedules. But, positive or negative, I was and still am hoping to hear from folks who have actually taken the train. Have you taken it, perhaps?

Hi francene. I share frank,s question about what your concerns are. To me, a train is a way to get from point a to b, hopefully in reasonable comfort and more or less on time. I,ve taken many trains in italy and all trains have met expectations. I looked into the new thello day train recently and from website it looked fine. I didn,t end up takingit just because of scheduling. Any night train is very different from a day train, and i wouldn,t consider thello nighy train comments as applying to their day train. Thus my earlier comment that it will probably work fine. You may be overthinking this. As far as the bistrot restaurant, i walked through it the other day and it looked fine, but of course i don,t know what your standards, preferences are in restaurants. Overall i would say that it is good to plan ahead, but on any trip, unexpected thongs will happen, and to me that is part of the fun and adventure. Enjoy your trip!

It is a new-ish service, it is infrequent, it doesn't accept passes (that why I have no interest in it - because they don't take my staff pass), and there are plenty of competing cheaper trains.

Those may be some of the reasons that you haven't heard more (at all) from first hand users.

I wouldn't expect anything spectacular from on board catering - visit a boulangerie or other shop and load up with nibbles and drinks before you get on the train.

The forecourt of Nice Ville station has been revamped over the last year or two and there is now a Paul there which makes decent (but more expensive than local ones) sandwiches and pastries and open straight through. As expensive as Paul is, it is probably less expensive and much better than that available on board.

I don't know anything about Bistrot Centrale as it wasn't there the last few times I traveled through Milano Cle and we have always been pleased with whatever we have sourced on the station. There are a lot of choices. If you have a few euro and the amount of time that you have, you won't starve.

Will it be on time? Nobody knows. Italian trains by and large run pretty close to time - at least the ones I have taken over the years. This Thello train, although run in competition to Trenitalia and TreNord runs over the same tracks and is controlled by the same signalling equipment. If a broken down train, or something else, blocks the line and you are in the queue behind, you will be late too, regardless of what is painted on the outside of the train. But most trains run reasonably close to their schedules, at least in the North.

How are you getting from the Varenna station (know the previous 2 stations because the stations are unmanned, announcements are rare, and the train only stops a short time) to your hotel, the Villa Cipressi? It is all the way through the town from the station, uphill, on narrow pavements (sidewalks) or in the road. It is on the right side, after you pass the church, near the multi story car park.

Nigel, I so appreciate your response. Most helpful! Thank you.

The price quoted on the various sites indicates that Nice Ville to Milano Centrale will set me back 15 euros. That seems eminently reasonable to me. In fact, I have considered popping for the first class ticket at twice that amount. Sounds like a steal to me. Maybe that shows my naivete? But still... ;)

Unlike some Americans, I do not have to be stuffing my face every minute of every day. I am so not worried about "starving". But if there are people who have been to Bistrot Centrale and loved it (as some on TripAdvisor say they have), I want to hear about it. And the same goes for those who have hated it, if such people exist.

In regard to the question you asked about how I will get from the train station in Varenna to the Villa Cipressi, here is what the Rick Steves staff suggests:

"Once you reach Varenna you can either walk or take a taxi

~ Walk to the Villa Cipressi ~ The hotel is about a 15 minute walk from the train station. Exit the station

and follow the road to the left, then down the hill to the right. Turn left onto the main road at the Albergo

Beretta and follow it to the town's main square. Walk through the square, past the church, and seemingly

out of town again on the main road. The Villa Cipressi will soon be on your right.

~ Taxi to the Villa Cipressi ~ A taxi to the hotel should cost about €10. You'll find one outside the station."

I was planning to select one of these options. Sound reasonable to you? I have read that some of the streets are steep. I appreciate your raising the issue.

Finally, I simply want to say how grateful I am for your kind, helpful, intelligent reply to my inquiry. No condescension, no nonsense, just straight up good, thoughtful, helpful advice and questions. I cannot thank you enough.

€15 per person all the way from Nice Ville to Milano Centrale sounds way too good to be true.

Are you sure it is for the full duration, not just Nice to Ventimiglia?

Nigel, that is the price quoted on several different websites. 15 euro. Nice Ville to Milano Centrale. 30 euro for first class.

If you check the usual sites and discover that I am misinterpreting this, I will very much appreciate your thoughts.

Yup, you are right and I am wrong. Sorry.

€15 cheapest 2nd class €30 cheapest First.

I looked in September and the First class tickets were becoming rare on the day I looked.

That is an excellent price and as soon as I was certain of my dates I would bite their arm off. If you delay, the next price level is higher.

The Villa Cipressi, by the way, is a very nice hotel and has famous gardens which go along the road and also down along the cliffside over the sea. Beautiful.

Thank you for checking this out, Nigel. Much appreciated. Now I just have to figure out how to select a front-facing seat. I can't seem to get that straight. I really want to be seated facing forward, if possible. Any tips? Anyone?

Francene, if your train pulls into a railhead station, you will be facing the opposite direction when it pulls out. It's a bit of a nuisance for me to ride backward. Butsometimes you can switch to an empty unreserved seat

Thanks, Zoe. If anyone knows how to select a reserved seat that is definitely facing forward during the trip, I would love to hear. (Remember this is a Thello day train running between Nice and Milan.) I am getting ready to make my reservation and hope to get this as right as humanly possible. Very grateful for any assistance!

As you know, I haven't ridden that train. But I have looked at the stopping pattern.

08:09 NICE VILLE
08:22 08:24 MONACO MONTE CARLO
08:42 08:59 Ventimiglia
09:04 09:06 Bordighera
09:13 09:15 San Remo
09:29 09:31 Imperia Porto Maurizio
09:37 09:39 Diano Marina
09:52 09:54 Alassio
10:02 10:04 Albenga
10:16 10:18 Finale Ligure Marina
10:30 10:33 Savona
11:05 11:21 Genova Piazza Principe
12:06 12:08 Voghera
12:23 12:25 Pavia
12:50 Milano Centrale

The left hand time is arrival at that station, the right hand one departure.

Usually most long distance trains stop for 2 or 3 minutes. If they are changing ends so that the train can go out the way it came in (front becomes back and back becomes front) that often takes 10 or 15 minutes or so, and the schedule will accommodate that. For example, Milano Centrale, Marseilles St Charles, all the Paris stations, Roma Termini, Venezia Santa Lucia, Firenze Santa Maria Novella, are all terminus or dead end stations. All through trains have to change ends to continue.

In that case all front facing seats are suddenly facing backwards and all the others the opposite.

Not all extended stops are to change ends. Sometimes it could be for border police to check a train, or it could be to change traincrew.

In your case you will see that there are extended stops at Ventimiglia and Genova PP. I expect that the first is to change crew and an opportunity for border police to have a wander through. I have always seen many border police wandering around Ventimiglia station.

The stop at Genova PP (one of my absolutely least favourite stations anywhere) could easily be to change ends as I am fairly certain that the straight way out is towards the Ligurian Coast and the train may have to change ends to go north towards Milano.

But I don't know as I never looked at that option.

So maybe your seat will go the same way the whole way, or maybe it will change direction one or two times.

Instead of worrying about it you might swap into an empty seat going the way you want on the day, and be prepared to swap again once or twice.

If you sit (facing either direction) on the right hand side leaving Nice you will have the fabulous views of the Med out your side until San Remo or Genova.

The question of forward facing seats is frequently asked with the same answer. No way to predict. Modern train cars are designed to travel in both directions. And, as pointed out earlier, the cars can change directions of travel depending on the schedule and train stations. The standard car design is all of the seats facing the middle so at any one time half the people are riding forward and half backwards. So roll the dice. If riding forward is critical then hope to see some open seats you can used. Good luck.

Nigel, thank you for the clear and thorough response! I learned so much from what you took the time and effort to write. Things I was too ignorant to anticipate. You are so helpful and I am so grateful. Merci beaucoup, monsieur!