THE "touristification" of the CAMPO DE FIORI market

I am a fan of markets, if I am in a town, and there is a market, either a daily one, or weekly; street, or dedicated structure; Food or Flea, I am there.

I did not find anything surprising in the article, been to the market a half dozen trips over 20 years, I guess I always thought it was more for the tourists than the locals.

I have observed though that the trend toward a market as tourism, rather than local shopping, has happened all over Europe. The very presence of tourists means more places are going to sell to those customers, and that is usually not fish, fresh meat, or produce, except ready-to-eat and packaged items.

Another less publicized reason is just changes in culture. Most daily shoppers at markets tend to be pensioners. The typical family has both parents working during market hours, and a modern supermarket is available to get everything in one stop on the way home (and when markets are closed).

In my visits to markets, I am often disappointed, going into a large market hall, and finding maybe a dozen active stalls. Conversely, yeah there are insanely busy markets, but those are the ones that cater to tourists, or have become "gastro-markets" with food stalls.

Still, there are some gems out there, Spain has a number, a few in Italy, Market days in Belgium and the Netherlands, the odd one in Germany, but all the successful ones have had to adapt.

Its just not the same any more. Ahhh the good old days: https://colosseumrometickets.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/10/Campo-de-Fiori-1880.jpg

After over 20 visits to the market, to Rome, to many places in Italy, I find I'm welcomed as a returning 'guest' by many. I love walking throuogh Campo de Fiori but I seldom buy anything - so much is 'touristy' things I just don't need. But there is one delightful lady who has a produce stand. Every year she sees me coming down the row, comes to give me a hug and calls me by name, and calls her family memberrs to come say hello. (You might have seen her on a RS episode. She and I joked about how she was asked to dress up and put on make-up.) I buy some fruit and vegetables. I don't remember having that kind of 'shopping' experience here at home. It's one of those things that makes Italy Italy for me. I've learned to ignore the tourists who are just checking the Campo off their 'must see' list. I was there for a few weeks this past spring. She and her family were not. I feel like I have lost a friend and a piece of my heart.

Robert, those are the best tourism experiences. But you only get them when you invite them so speaks well for you.

So true!

There is a small market near Piazza Monte d"Oro named Campo Marzio that did not seem to attract tourists, although it's in central Rome... I was so happy that it was there that I did not mind being awakened every morning by the clatter of the stalls being set up!

I've had less trouble finding markets geared to locals in Spain than I have in italy.

What I see in Italy are weekly markets that set up in towns and sell some food, and lots of socks and underwear.
But in Spain, there seems to be covered food markets in most towns of any size...and these are open daily except Sundays.

Fortunately, the locals still shop at the markets in Budapest. Even the big tourist market has dozens and dozens of produce and meat vendors. Someone on the forum once said stay away cause its all tourists … didn’t know tourists bought enough pig heads and turnips to keep all those vendors in business. But the upper floor is all tourist now but has been for over 20 years. No idea what it was before 1990.

Then we have a few smaller ones that have stayed in business by giving a fourth to a third over to a grocery store and kept the remainder for traditional vendors. That works for everyone.

I guess it works here because people still live in the city. But a little way out of the center is my favorite and from old phots I have seen hasn’t changed much in 50 years.

A thoughtful rumination on the impact of tourism and how we adjust to change - for better or worse.

And of course, the de rigeuer response here on the Forum when one inquires as to the best location to stay in Rome is "stay near Campo de' Fiori."

Having stayed in & around Campo de' Fiori three times in the last 15 years, I feel I can speak to this article, which I believe was painted with a very broad brush, bordering on clickbait. I sincerely hope, ekscrunchy, that you posted this article to garner discussion rather than to assume the responders will just toe the party line by saying, 'marrone, it's not like it was before...'

Well...here's a news flash--it's not. On our first trip to Rome in October 2010 we stayed at the Boutique Campo de' Fiori Hotel, which still thrives on the perimeter of the piazza. It was a short stay, only 3 days, but I was enamored with the vendors--at that time probably 90% fruit & vegetable sellers. I watched intently as an old woman cleaned and scored chicory while preparing puntarelle salad that would be served in the tiny Filetti di Baccala shop around the corner. The wonderful spice blend guys were there then as now, a few cheesemongers as well.

By my next trip in February 2017, I would estimate it was still 75% produce, but the curio market crap was beginning to inch its way in. How did that happen? I know a couple vendors who have said these spots are grandfathered from generation to generation. No doubt there was 'baksheesh' involved. That trip we stayed at one of Boutique CdF 'residenzas' (studio apartment) that overlooked the market and we paid the bargain-basement price of 85 Euro a night--we stayed a week, and with the windows open in the early morning I could hear the old vendors scraping their carts across the cobblestones at 6AM, catcalling to each other as they arrived to set up. It was wonderful.

Last April, with two of my cousins, we rented an apartment a few steps off the piazza, across from the Leonardo DaVinci Museum. Yes, now the market is more curios, the same dooded-up pasta & olive oil that I've seen at Mercato Centrale in Florence and also on the Amalfi Coast. But I still connected with my vendor lady--for the third time--whose mother had died in the interim since my last visit, and we shed a couple tears over that. But she still had strawberries from Basilicata and Sicilian blood oranges to sell. So there are still some left.

So...is this cataclysmic event--progress for good or bad--going to keep me away from Campo de' Fiori?! Hell, no. I have my eyes on a beautiful 2 bedroom apartment on the far end of the piazza, just over the La Carbonara sign, for my trip a year from now, and I'm thinking we'll stay 2 weeks this time. Why? Because virtually everything is steps away. The tremendous Forno Bakery owner by the Roscioli family--a satellite shop will be right outside my door for morning perusal, and their flagship store down one path is 5 minutes away. The Carrefour mom-and-pop grocery is just off the piazza. And lavanderias, farmacias, movie theatres a literal stone's throw from our apartment.

True, some of the restaurants on the perimeter are tourist traps as it were (that's always been the case), but a handful are quite good and hit the spot after a long day of touring Roma on foot and all you want to do is sit with a cold beer & some pasta, then stagger home to bed steps away at the apartment. And the vibe of Campo de' Fiori--even if the goods peddled at the market have changed over time--has been immutable over 150 years...the vendors arrive at 6AM, they pack up by 3PM, the washer trucks come in and spray the cobblestone, then late afternoon/early evening there's a lull before the nightlife heats up--watching this unfold out the window is the best TV ever. At least when we've been there off season, it never gets too crazy. In fact, the bustle is my white noise when drifting off to sleep--no other sound like it, the voices in a pleasant cacophony off the stone buildings.

So...please do me a personal favor & let the article deter you from staying at Campo de' Fiori. More room for me! Peace out.

plus 1 for Jay

No doubt there was 'baksheesh' involved

And such an adamant absence of doubts is based on...?

And why should baksheesh be involved? Those stalls are owned by small companies that own the license "to sell goods on a public square" on a specific spot, selling the all company is perfectly legal. So a baksheesh for what?

Tourism is saving Markets while changing them into something fake. Markets have been closing all over Italy for decades, but not because of some guy from NYC who's happy to buy penis-shaped pasta and thinks that Italians actually eat that stuff. There are many long-term reasons:

1. Any time a big company like Carrefour wants to open a new middle-sized store downtown, they offer Cash-stripped cities to build also some new public infrastructures in that neighbourhood . So every year there are more and more middle-sized stores all around and markets catering only to locals can't face the competition;
2. A new mega store in the suburbs means many new jobs, no Mayor has the guts to say no. So cities are surrounded by a "belt of supermarkets" and people gets used to go shopping in the suburbs, where they can go by car and find parking;
3. Buying meat, vegetables and cheese at a supermarket means having to wait in one line at the cashier. One line. At a neighbourhood market it's 3 different lines. Housewives are an endangered species, nobody under 70 has time to go shopping every morning and waste 40 minutes to pay 3 times;
4. South of Bologna most Market stalls do not accept credit cards.
5. Supermarkets are open 7 days a week up to 8 PM, 362 days a year; markets are open 6 days a week, close in the afternoon and they are never open during bank holydays. These days families do the shopping on Sundays and/or after 6 pm.

Every Italian older than 40 would agree with the article by Gambero Rosso linked by the OP. It isn't a market anymore because 80% of the stalls don't cater to locals anymore and sell stuff that locals do not want. In 10 years it will be 95%. Not because of mass tourism, because for various reasons locals prefer to go shopping somewhere else.

Marco--

You make strong points. And maybe not being an Italian local I thought somewhat romantically that locals still prefer to shop at local markets, certainly more than here in the States, and thus make the spots valuable enough to just naturally stay in the family. So I just assumed that for an 'interloper' to get in there, some type of bribe would have to take place--I still think there was some of that. And I also assumed the few remaining fruit & veg vendors--now that there's less of them--would do land/office business now. But if the locals don't come to the CdF market anymore, and tourists have no need (except for idiots like me who like to set up shop and cook a few times), maybe business isn't that great. I'll be very interested a year from now when I visit to see if my lady vendor is still there.

Interestingly, sometime between 2017 and our trip April 2025, the mom-and-pop grocery right off the CdF piazza was bought out by Carrefour. But...the shop looks exactly the same.

Hah--you talk about the 'penis-shaped bottles'--I saw that last April and went into a rant. As I said, Mercato Centrale/Florence--and I've been visiting there for 15 years as well--had more of that crap last April than in previous trips. Conversely...at the Sant' Ambrogio Market/Florence and also Testaccio in Rome...I didn't see much of that at all, thankfully. So there's hope.

I'm glad the article sparked what has become an interesting discussion,

The stands that used to cater to locals: How many locals live in the immediate neighborhood these days, or has it (and the rest of central Rome) been mostly hollowed out by rental apartments and flats owned by foreigners and very rich Italians (??). (Many examples of this in Spanish cities like Madrid, but Madrid, for example, still has wonderful permanent food markets, along with all the small shops selling food and wines.

I've wondered about the comparison between Spain and Italy as far as shopping for food..
In Spain, even small cities have permanent "mercados municipios," open 6 days a week.

I don't see those much in Italy, where I see more of those weekly markets where vendors set up stands in a different town every week, and the items for sale tend to be less food and more household goods, inexpensive clothing and shoes made in Asia....and things like those dried pastas in striped rainbows of color, packets of pre-mixed dried spices, etc. (I've yet to see the penis-shaped pasta, but I did see an Il Duce apron in the town of Amalfi years ago....)

Bravo Eks, for this post. Markets play a key role for us as long-time self-caterers. This topic of their ongoing pivot in role and demographic as it plays out in Italy, Spain and elsewhere is interesting. Today in Antibes, we shopped at a Carrefour, the daily covered market, a 140 yr. old boulangerie and a killer charcuterie. Each sold stuff we needed/wanted.

I am done. The brave Bruno Giordano

The stands that used to cater to locals: How many locals live in the
immediate neighborhood these days, or has it (and the rest of central
Rome) been mostly hollowed out by rental apartments and flats owned by
foreigners and very rich Italians (??).

Again, paralleling Rome with Florence, spending time roaming there last April as well made me think exactly that. The 300-year-old apartment that took up the entire floor of the building where we stayed on via Tornabuoni--smack dab in the middle of the shopping district--was old & magnificent & smelled like aged flowers and slightly decaying wood. And we grabbed it on AirBnB because the owner said he had moved to the outskirts of Firenze and it was the first season it was being offered out.

The legend Roberto di Firenze would no doubt be able to speak to this dilemma, and has on occasion. Mercato Centrale used to be great, now it's a lot of the same crap. But we were urged by many to explore the Sant' Ambrogio market for a taste of the past, which reminded me of Testaccio in Rome in its culinary purity. I smuggled some shrink-wrapped guanciale fillets home that were bought there cheaply, and was almost discovered by the beagles at customs at Logan Airport in Boston. The canines didn't find them and we enjoyed tremendous bucatini all' Amatriciana as a result.

The article below (use Google Translate to convert to English) refers to Florence but the same is true of the historical centers of Rome and Venice.

The locals have moved on to other places, increasingly outside the city limits altogether in the bordering municipalities, In the case of Rome those that moved away from the city center still stayed within the city limits inside the municipality of Rome, but that is because the municipality of Rome is unusually huge by Italian standards and extends way out in the outskirts and the countryside around.

In part it is because those city centers have changed their souls, and have morphed from a living city to a theme park like Disneyland where many homes are short term rentals for tourists and University students who enjoy the vibe of the nightlife. But families and elderlies did not stay. Old small apartments, with no elevators, high prices, limited shopping options at reasonable prices, and the impossibility of using or even owning a car due to the parking and traffic restrictions have made it impossible to live in the historical centers. Let’s face it. Italian families, just like North American families, also enjoy a larger home and being able to shop at a large grocery store with their car and park in their own garage. You can’t do that if you live in a historical centers and you are not so wealthy to be able to own a palatial residence.

https://www.firenzetoday.it/economia/fiorentini-residenti-diminuizione-casa.html

However, if you like to be surrounded by people who speak your language, Florence is perfect. Every Florentine will tell you that the city center is an American colony. You hear way more American English downtown Florence than in Los Angeles or New York City.

almost discovered by the beagles at customs at Logan Airport in Boston. The canines didn't find them

I never saw Jay as a scofflaw. And then to brag?

Nige...believe me when I tell you it was worth it. And then months down the line I was excited when I got a line on some supposedly great guanciale at an Italian shop up in Milwaukee. Drove there, paid through the nose, brought it home, cooked it up...bitterly disappointed. No comparison.

The quality of the fruit, vegetables & meat at these old-timey markets in Florence & Rome are unmatched at times. Even more reason to bemoan their downfall.

And, Roberto...you are absolutely correctamundo about more English than Italian being spoken in downtown Florence. And we were there in early April, when the American mamas & papas were visiting their children doing a semester at one of the universities. Same thing in Rome, although a little more of an ethnic melting pot at Campo and Piazza Navona and the like. Time passages...

Jay, Pooky the sniffer beagle once 'caught' me at a noted Canuck airport's carousel area. OP Eks will recognize the reference cos I later morphed that true story into one of my silly, imaginary teasing posts. A pretty beach rock had earlier found its way into my carry-on and Pooky detected that. I immediately went into 'plausible denial' mode, complete with shrugs and complete cooperation.

Me (adopting A-game boyish charm): 'Geez officer, dunno. Maybe your Pookie here is smelling the meat sandwiches that my wife and I packed inside that same bag two days ago like...back in Sicily?'
Officer (cold stare accompanied by the slightest grunt): 'hmph'.

I am done. The picture of innocence (Pooky I mean)