That Venice Debate

OK, so have you been to Venice? If not, this is a golden opportunity. Otherwise, make sure you can visit Venice on your next trip, but when is that? And less crowded being a selling point - what more reason do you need?

You’ve got a helpful 2-night stay planned, with time after the day trippers are back on their cruise boats, or back on the mainland, leaving Venice for you and the others lucky enough to be there for the evening and night. Twisty alleys? Everything that’s not a canal full of water is a twisty alley - or a bridge connecting twisty alleys. Gondola ride at night? Check. Being in St. Mark’s square late at night, one of Rick Steves’ essential backdoor suggestions? He’s right, and I’ll always remember mine.

Sure, 2 more days without Venice would give you time elsewhere, but the potential list for devoting extra time in Italy could be dozens of other places. You’re seeing a mix of places already, not just 2 towns over 2 weeks. Since you’re not doing “slow” travel anyway, I wouldn’t take Venice off the itinerary. Unless you do actually need a recovery day, in which case you don’t want to be running around Rome or Florence or Sienna anyway. Rome could use an entire week, if you had it. Sienna is different than Florence, but it’s still Tuscany. Venice is different from all of the above - go and enjoy!

Hello everyone,
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Venice is worth seeing and exploring but is it worth your time? Do you plan to travel to Europe again in the near future? If so, Venice could be tacked on to a trip to Croatia, France, Germany, Switzerland, etc.
if future travels are in your future, I’d skip it this time since you seem a bit concerned about the time it takes to head down to Rome.

I consider two nights, especially at the beginning of your trip when jetlag and sleep-deprivation are likely to be factors, inadequate for Venice and would normally suggest that you drop it and give it more time on a later trip. But these are not normal times. If you're traveling this year, you have a golden opportunity to see Venice in the least crowded conditions it has seen for I don't know how many years. Unfortunately, you aren't giving yourself enough time to see much of the city, but I still feel that this opportunity shouldn't be squandered.

You seem to be interested in art. Do you not care for modern art? You haven't listed the Peggy Guggenheim Collection among your Venice sights.

The train from downtown Rome to Venice takes about 4 hours. To that you must add time to get from Fiumicino Airport to Termini Station. That wouldn't be wasted time for a lot of travelers, because arrival day leaves many/most of us too foggy to do any significant sightseeing. Spending a good chunk of the day getting to the farthest destination from our arrival airport is in that case a good use of otherwise nearly worthless time.

I went to Venice for a week in January 3 years ago and there were no crowds - not a single cruise ship in all week. We had no rain and it was milder than we expected. I have to say I was disappointed in it. I still enjoyed it, but I expected it to be one of the best places I have visited and it certainly wasn’t. Unless you spent an arm and a leg, the food was very average.

Would I take a fairly long journey to get there whilst jet lagged as you could be? No, but it’s your trip not mine.

If you are going to Venice, then you need to drop say the Amalfi coast, as ideally you need to add another night or 2 to allow for jet lag.

Your southern Italy plans look like a LOT of transit time from Salerno -- many of the places might be quicker from Sorrento. (But then, I'm quite fond of Sorrento.)

I would take one night from Florence and add it to Venice. Venice is magical and a great place to relax after jet lag.

I would keep Venice because it’s something that everybody feels like they should see at least once. It is neat, but two nights should be fine/more than adequate. Personally I would take a day from Florence and add it to Rome. I have no desire to go back to Venice or Florence, but I have yet to get tired of Rome.

Is it possible for you to change your ticket so you can fly into Venice and out of Rome? Delta I believe has a non-stop flight between Atlanta and Venice. If not, skip Venice and assume you’ll return to Europe again. As Diane suggests, you could easily include Venice if you go to Croatia some day.

Venice is actually a very special place and a must see if you have not been there. The absence of vehicle traffic noise and the freedom to walk without risk of getting run over by a scooter or a Panda is wonderful. Trips here and there by foot and water, it's special. We fly in to Venice and the travel South by train. If we are exploring the countryside we will rent a car but not in Rome or Florence. A lot of folks love to load up on Florence. We get out of the Renaissance mood pretty quickly so it's not as high on our list. Personally I would not add days there. Instead we lean towards heading farther South and renting a car to visit places like Tarquinia, Ortobello etc. Rome can always fill out a stay. You could spend a lifetime in the city. When we head South we start out in Rome, head to Naples and then carry on from there. I usually plan that as a separate trip. Whatever you do it should be memorable and fun....such a great destination.

I would not go to Venice jetlagged. Been there, done that. However, Venice is one of those places you feel you should see, but people seem to either love it or 'not'. I expected to love it, but arrived travel weary and everything was a chore to get to or find our way around or dodge umbrella spokes to the eye. I could see it had potential and have been trying to give it a second chance, but those plans continue to be foiled.
But if you feel compelled to do so, can you rearrange your travel to stay in Rome first, then Florence, Venice and Salerno -returning to Rome night before flight? I assume you will be staying in Rome the first night anyway if you aren't arriving until 8 pm so whether 1st night or last night, there is going to be a one nighter in your plan.

Venice is something you have to see once, but my general advice is less time in Venice and more in Rome. I can never tire of Rome.

I am planning a similar trip, with 4 nights in Salerno, and for the third time I have dropped Venice from our itinerary. Instead, we will be staying in Siena for 4 nights. Siena ticks all the boxes on your list except for the sea/cliffsides component.

Thank you everyone for helping me gel up my Venice situation! So many helpful comments especially when reminding me of this as a unique opportunity in time as well as looking at what my future travels will be.

While I have much on the ground flexibility (all stays can be changed right up to my US departure date), my RT ticket in and out of Rome is fixed as it was very low in sky miles compared to other CV-19 flights, which is making this trip possible for me.

With that flexibility in stays, and your comments, I’ve added one more night to Venice by taking a day away from Florence (and dropping the idea of going to Siena this time around as there will be a girlfriend's trip to Tuscany in the future). As luck would have it, I am in a wonderful hotel near St Marks Square and hope to enjoy those sunset moments - gondola, performances in the Square (fingers crossed), etc. sans a lot of crowds and before the water takes the island over too much.

I appreciate the heads up about Salerno versus Sorrento and will further research. The travel to and from the other cities seemed easier if I just went direct to Salerno by avoiding that transfer in Naples, and the transportation to day sites didn't seem that much more extensive, albeit a bit more walking into the excavation sites. Plus, I secured a highly reviewed stay in a room with a balcony and sea view in my budget (compared to what I could afford in Sorrento). But I'll go back and look to confirm.

As others have said, this will be a unique time to go. I’m sure there will be some challenges, but I’m a flexible person and looking forward to the upcoming adventures!

All the places on your list are great, but Venice is the most out of your way. I would either expand time in Venice and drop places south of Rome, or do the opposite. It sounds like the latter might better suit your interests, and save places north of Florence for another trip where you can do more justice to Venice and nearby places (e.g., Padua, Ravenna, Verona). Sorrento is fine but I think Salerno is a great place to stay; it is very accessible to what you want to see, and I think has a more authentic vibe than Sorrento as it attracts far fewer tourists, and is excellent for wandering and eating and (unlike Sorrento) has some attractions in its own right, such as one of the better cathedrals in southern Italy. I would not waste time with ascending Vesuvius -- you get a good view of it from Pompeii and to me, that is quite sufficient. While your list of places in that area is all good and is more than enough for your allotted time, consider the Greek temples at Paestum, which are great, and easily reached from Salerno. You don't say when you are going and that would affect my advice; for example, I had a wonderful day some years ago exploring Capri on a sunny January day with very few other tourists there, but I would not want to set foot on that island in the height of the summer crush.

If you do stay in Salerno at least visit Paestum
The temples are magnificent, the museum is worthwhile
Easy train trip from Salerno

I think your decision to add another night to Venice is wise. You have a comprehensive itinerary. From what you expressed it should tick all your boxes for history, wandering, market, etc. Before we went to Venice we were advised to avoid St. Mark's Square during the main part of the day. We enjoyed the area in the early morning or evening. We were first in line for the opening of the Cathedral and Doges Palace. Most days we walked off the beaten path to neighborhoods to avoid the crowds (we were there in August 2018). Other days we took a Vaporetto to Burano, Torcello, Lido and San Giorgio Maggiore.

I agree that Pasteum is a must see. We were blown away by the best preserved ancient Greek temples in the world.

Enjoy your planning!

I had one full day in Venice on my first visit 51 years ago. It was fine and if I had never gone again, I would be ok with that. 3 years ago we were there 3 full days. I preferred that amount. My wife preferred Venice to Rome and Florence.

Any opportunity to see Venice is worth it, but especially when less crowded. I'd add more time there. Just wandering around -- away from Piazza San Marco! -- is a wonderful experience.

Of course, everything on your itinerary is wonderful; but there is too much for the time you have. I suggest you consider eliminating the south of Rome segment. Those days could be added to Venice (1 or 2), Florence (1 or 2), and Rome. Your allotment for Florence leaves little time for walking around and enjoying the city. I’m an art lover, but cramming all those art museums into 3 days would leave me semi-comatose. Just 3 days in Rome will barely scratch the surface. Eliminating one change of city will also increase your effective time by a day.

If you decide to keep your Salerno stay, I second the recommendation to visit Paestum. It was ~20 years ago when I went, but strolling around the temples was quiet, solitary, and relaxing.

As for your original list of 5 nights with Salerno as base (for which Sorrento, again, would probably be more convenient if more expensive), I would not try to cram in Capri. Closer to Pompei than Herculaneum is Oplontis (in the town of Torre Annunziata), the villa of Nero's second wife Poppea. If you are a Monteverdi fan this will be golden!

Thank you for the extra info and Salerno comments. That is my instinct as well (to base in Salerno over Sorrento).

Based on all the comments, I'll be sure to prioritize the ruins in Paestum. And also do some research into Oplontis - it sounds awesome but might be getting heavy on that theme so I'll have to make some choices.

I am committed to Capri and the Blue Grotto experience for family history reasons. I haven’t figured it out yet but it appears it be a nice ferry, beach, and hiking experience (as I am not comfortable doing Walk of the Gods solo).

Thanks also for the advice about not ascending Vesuvius - I can certainly live without that. In doing so, it does open some interesting half day alternatives that I’ll have to look into. As I hear several recommend less time at the Amalfi Coast, I could drop a day and visit Herc on my way in, lending an extra day to Florence. Will do so research there.

The advice about Venice has been so helpful. It makes sense that the square will be busiest during "regular hours", so I'll plan to do as much as I can early and late, and then venture to exploring the lesser visited areas during the heavy tourist times. I'm really interested to see what arises with evening performances - Vivaldi or Verdi. I see there are a couple that can be pre-booked which might make the most sense with Covid, but I'm really hoping to have that orchestral experience in the square that I've heard about.

Great advice all around that has been so helpful. You all are awesome and depending on what I decide about those half day alternatives now that I’m not going to walk up Vesuvius, you will probably see a new thread from me soon.

If you do take train to Paestum check schedule carefully
There is a gap from mid morning to late afternoon as I recall
Buy your RT ticket in Salerno as well
Nobody was at the station in Paestum, ticket machine wasn’t working ( we had ours but others there did not)

If you are interested in Vivaldi we enjoyed a fabulous performance (Interpreti Veneziani) at the magnificent Chiesa San Vidal. We purchased our tickets at the church the day before while “walking off the beaten path.” It was the best Four Seasons concert we’ve attended.

We enjoyed Salerno

Great meal here
http://www.mythosristorantegreco.it

Best gelato
Bar Nettuno on Lungomare Trieste

I would take a day from Florence and add it to Venice, since as others have noted, there won’t be as many tourists as usual. I also agree that Sorrento is a better base for the Amalfi coast.