Stressed about public transportation in Europe. Help needed!

You need to have the exact itinerary with you and the days you are on a train.
You can check the timetables and price of point to point tickets on the individual rail company websites
http://www.trenitalia.com/tcom-en
https://www.sbb.ch/en/home.html
http://www.oebb.at/en/

Once you add them all up, you compare it with the Eurail pass options. You probably don't need the full European pass, but there are several, including two country passes, flex passes etc.

TheGerman websites is good for checking timetables, but if you travel for example within a Italy, you need to go to the Trenitalia website to prepurchase.
You don't need to preorder purchase necessarily but if you do you may be able to get discounted fares which are generally not available if you wait to by the day you go to the station.

Subways are not included. But if you decide to buy a flexible pass that allows only travel on a limited number of days, you can buy tickets on the days that you travel short distances. For example Milan to Varenna costs only a few euro.

If you were going only in Italy I'd say that passes aren't necessary since Italian tickets are cheap, but Switzerland and Austria I don't know. I think they still have the Swiss+Austria rail pass. It might pay, I don't know. It depends on your itinerary. Just get a pen and paper, then compare.

First of all, don't feel bad being overwhelmed by the rail transportation options. It certainly is complicated! Second, you'll love traveling on European trains. It's a great way to strike up conversations with other travelers and exchange opinions about what you've seen, what you want to see in your next destination, etc. If you're traveling alone I would just caution you not to leave any valuables unattended (for example, if you go down the corridor to the restroom, take any purse or day-pack with you) and don't be overly forthcoming about where you're headed and where you intend to stay.

I don't have much (recent) expertise about rail passes, but here goes.

1. Subways, streetcars, trams & other metropolitan forms of rail don't count as trains for a Eurail pass. Also, in Italy there are (or at least there were, some years ago) a few private railways that don't honor the Eurail pass.

2. Reserving seats is indeed important. At popular times, especially during vacation season, you might not be able to travel when you wish because all the seats are already booked.

Validating the pass: "A railway official will fill in the start and end date of your pass as well as your passport number. Also, they will stamp your pass to validate the date on which train travel begins. Activation is required within six months of the issuing date. To validate, you must provide proof of ID (passport) and the pass."
This and other how-to tips, can be found here https://www.globotreks.com/how-to/how-to-use-eurail-pass/

The above also answers your question about what counts as a travel day for purposes of the pass:
"A day on a pass is usually one 24-hour period, commencing at midnight. Once you hop on a train during a calendar day, it counts as a travel day in your pass. But, during that calendar day, you can take as many trains as you like, and it still counts as one travel day.
But, have in mind that there’s the 7 p.m. rule…
What is the 7 p.m. rule?
If you have a flexi pass (e.g. Global Pass – choose 15 days within two months), then knowing about the 7 p.m. rule can save you a few travel days! Simply, you can save travel days when you travel by night.
The rule means that you only need to use one travel day when you travel on a direct night train that departs after 7 p.m. (19:00) and arrives after 4 a.m. (04:00). But, the date that counts as the travel day is the arrival date."

Point-to-point tickets may only become available a certain length of time before the travel date, such as 90 or 60 days? I'm just guessing about this. Hope someone else will reply who knows the Italian, Swiss, & Austrian railways from (recent) personal experience.

1. Subways and local transport doesn't count as travel days with a Eurail pass, nor are they honored. In Milan, you can easily buy a multi-day public transit pass at most "tabacchi" (cigarette/magazine stands). Then you can ride any bus, subway, tram, or urban railway in the city. If I remember right, I stamped on first use in a stamping machine, in my case it was on a bus, and that establishes the start time of validity. That is what validating means.

2. You will need to reserve a seat(s) for the train to Kandersteg if you use the EC train to Brig, connecting to Kandersteg. To do a day trip to Varenna, you only have to validate tickets you buy at the station (be sure to buy tickets to and from as there is no manned station in Varenna). This means sticking the ticket in a stamping machine on the train platform before boarding. In Europe, tickets are somewhat on the honor system in that you are responsible to punch your own ticket. If you get checked by a conductor and you have not done so, it will cost you some money. If you are using a pass day, you just fill in your pass and there is nothing to validate. However, the round trip ticket from Milan to Varenna is so cheap, you might not want to use an expensive pass day for this. The fare is only 6.70 EUR each way.

3. You can't buy tickets at www.bahn.com because none of your travels take you to Germany. They can only sell tickets for trips that start, end, or are within Germany. Italian tickets can be bought at http://www.trenitalia.com/trenitalia.html. Swiss tickets at www.sbb.ch/en and Austrian tickets at www.oebb.at.

You arrive at Milan Malpensa airport (I assume) and you cannot use a Eurail pass for the train into Milan. You can buy a ticket at the airport train station.

I am not a fan of the Eurail pass, especially for Switzerland as it only gives a 25% discount on the trains from Interlaken to Grindelwald and Muerren and the Schilthornbahn.

Keep posting back and we'll try to "talk" you through this

Agreed, Eurail pass not good for Switzerland...I would buy separate tickets for each journey. Most train companies will not have tickets/schedules up months in advance...as they change them seasonally...more trains in summer to accommodate extra travelers etc. You may need to continue to check back until schedules are released. So the trips that may fall into the Eurail category are Milan to Venice, Hallstatt to Vienna....the side trip to Varenna cannot cost much. Enjoy your trip!

Mulano Centrale to Venezia Santa Lucia has a €19 fare right now; no changes or refunds possible for this price.

You guys are the best cure to my travel stress. Really!

All of the info you guys gave me is so helpful. Also, I don't know if it changes anything, but I will be arriving in Linate and not Malpensa.

For the multi-pass in Milan, do you pay up front for the amount of days you use or is it a "refill" method? For example, in Singapore I can buy a pass and put money in it as I use it. When the money runs out on the card I can put more money in to use on buses and subways. Is it the same for this multi-pass in Milan or is it by day (no matter how many times per day) convention?

The responses from you guys are so great, I don't think I need a Eurail pass for this trip it looks like. But there's a Swiss pass or something that is similar to a Eurail pass but only for Switzerland. Is it worth it or should I still try to buy point-to-point tickets? While in Switzerland I will be heading to Murren, I think I need to take the cable cars for that? If so, do I need to book it in advance? I assume the Swiss pass wouldn't be used for cable cars?

For validation: let's say I pre-purchased a ticket from Venice to Milan on June 5th at 8:00 am. Does that mean I'm guaranteed to have a seat on that particular train? All I need to do is to validate the ticket before entering the train?

TM,

I haven't read all the previous replies, so hopefully I'm not repeating anything. A few thoughts....

• On the trip from MXP into Milan on the Malpensa Express, it's important that you validate (time & date stamp) your ticket prior to boarding the train, or you'll be subject to hefty fines! You may find this website helpful - http://europeforvisitors.com/rome/transportation/trenitalia-ticket-machines-1.htm
• Also note that the Malpensa Express has two routes, one to Milano Centale and one to Milano Cadorna. Be SURE to board the correct train!
• Metro (subway) and Bus tickets also have to be validated.
• Vaporetto tickets (Venice) also have to be validated but use an electronic reader for that. Just touch your ticket to the machine and if you get a green light, you're good to go. You may find this helpful - http://europeforvisitors.com/venice/articles/venice-vaporetto-fares.htm
• the trip from Milan to Varenna is also a Regionale train so again you must validate your tickets prior to boarding the train on the day of travel. Note that Varenna doesn't have a staffed ticket office, so it would be best to buy your return ticket before leaving Milan. Sit on the left (facing front) for best views of the lake. Also be sure to disembark promptly as the train doesn't stop for long in Varenna.
• if you want to buy advance tickets for the fast trains (ie: Milano Centrale to Venezia Santa Lucia), you can save money if you can get Super Economy or Economy tickets. Note that the fast trains have compulsory seat reservations that are specific to train, date and departure time, so can only be used on the ONE train listed on the ticket. If you board any other train by mistake, again hefty fines collected on the spot!
• On the routes served by the fast trains, you can generally use either Trenitalia or Italo Treno. Check both websites and buy tickets on whichever one best fits your timing.
• You can buy advance tickets either on the Trenitalia or Italo websites, or at www.trainline.eu at the same prices as the rail networks. Trainline sells tickets for both rail networks, so provides "one stop shopping".

Buon Viaggio!

"I don't know if it changes anything, but I will be arriving in Linate and not Malpensa."

There are no trains from Linate. You can take a bus to the Milano Centrale station; a taxi is about €25-30.

"For the multi-pass in Milan, do you pay up front for the amount of days you use or is it a "refill" method?"

You pay up front for a 1 day or 2 day pass, or else can buy individual tickets. Milan is large but the transit is excellent, so I agree a pass makes sense.

"there's a Swiss pass or something that is similar to a Eurail pass but only for Switzerland. Is it worth it or should I still try to buy point-to-point tickets?

This is a perpetual question because it's complicated. It's hard to go wrong with a Half Fare Card. It costs 120 CHF, so if your total trains in Switzerland come to 240 CHF or more, you can't lose. Or a Swiss Pass may work out better - you have to add up the numbers.

"While in Switzerland I will be heading to Murren, I think I need to take the cable cars for that? If so, do I need to book it in advance? I assume the Swiss pass wouldn't be used for cable cars?

Yes, you take cable cars as well as trains for Mürren. No, you do not and cannot book in advance. If you don't have a pass, you buy individual tickets (no discounts for advance purchase on these routes). Yes, if you have a Swiss Pass, it is good for cable cars, but with the following restrictions: You get full coverage from Interlaken Ost through Lauterbrunnen, and up to Mürren and Gimmelwald on one side, and up to Wengen on the other side. For the fully covered places, you don't need to buy tickets - just flash your Swiss Pass and hop on. Above Mürren (to Schilthorn) you get 50% off. Above Wengen (to Kleine Scheidegg and Jungfraujoch) you get 25% off. With a Half Fare Card, on the other hand, you have to buy tickets, but you get 50% off ALL of this travel - even the Jungfraujoch. This greater discount on the Jungfraujoch is one reason the Half Fare Card can be such a good deal.

"For validation: let's say I pre-purchased a ticket from Venice to Milan on June 5th at 8:00 am. Does that mean I'm guaranteed to have a seat on that particular train? All I need to do is to validate the ticket before entering the train?"

Yes, when you buy a ticket for trains in Italy that require reservations, the reservation is included, and you get a specific seat on a specific train (the car number and seat number are on your ticket). You do not need to validate this ticket, since it's only good for that one train. You only need to validate tickets without reservations, that could be used on more than one train (validation prevents re-use).

Note, part of the confusion is that you will be in three different countries, each with different "rules" about the trains. For instance, almost all trains in Switzerland are unreserved; you just get on, and if there's no seat, you stand. If you miss the train you intended to take, there will be another one in an hour or less, and you ticket is good for that next train. But in Italy, many trains have mandatory reservations; you get a specific seat on a specific train. If you miss the train you intended to take, you must buy a new ticket; if you get on a different train from the one your reserved ticket is good for, you get a fine.

Merry, some answers.
This is the map that shows where the Swiss Pass is valid: https://www.sbb.ch/content/dam/sbb/de/pdf/freizeit-ferien/ferien-kurztrips-schweiz/internationale-gaeste/sts-geltungsbereich_en.pdf
As you can see, it is valid all the way up to Mürren or Wengen (solid line), but above there you get a 50% or 25% discount (dotted line). This is better coverage than a Eurail Pass.
You never need not book in advance for Swiss trains, they don't take bookings (exception, the four extra tourist trains, Glacier Express etc., but in all cases there are normal trains on the same route). Swiss trains run at least one train per hour on all routes, and on most 2 per hour. Just turn up and get on.

Italian trains work on a different system.
"pre-purchased a ticket from Venice to Milan on June 5th at 8:00 am" If you pre-purchase a ticket for a High Speed train (for example Venice - Milan) it will say on the ticket which train it is for, and say which coach and seat number. That seat on that train is reserved for you, if you miss the train the ticket is worthless. Advanced purchase tickets are cheaper than those bought on the day.
For local trains ("Regionale"), the Swiss system applies. Tickets are for any train, no reservations. But, you must timestamp your ticket ("Validation") before getting on the train, to stop you using it twice.

And I am deleting my previous tip about going to Venice straight to Venice as i was under the mistaken impression that you are flying in from North America, which all land in the morning at Malpensa. I see now you are coming from Singapore (maybe).

Is it just yourself, or will there be others traveling with you? Any children, and if so, what ages? This is important information we need as far as giving advice is concerned.

Hi Sam,

I am flying in from the US, but will be stopping in Frankfurt before flying into Milan, so I think that's why my flight will end up in Linate instead of Malpensa. Please let me know if there's anything I'm missing or I should be aware of anything now that I'm flying into Linate.

I will be traveling with my husband, no children. Thank you for your help!

Thanks so much you guys for making the time to write these helpful responses!

I have not heard of Half Fare Pass for Switzerland at all. How is that different from Swiss pass? That sounds like a great deal. If they are that good, why would anyone buy Swiss passes? I don't mean to doubt either one, I'm just really curious.

I also just found out about Jungfrau rails. Are they only in Lauterbrunnen? Since I'm staying in Murren should I also get Jungfrau passes?

The Half Fare Card costs 120 CHF per adult and is good for 30 days. Once you have one, all journeys on trains, cable cars, buses, boats, city transit is half the listed fare. It is, in all the the calculations i have done, the best value. The Swiss Travel Pass only gives a 50% discount on the Schilthornbahn above Muerren, and for the Jungfraujochbahn, it only gives a 25% discount for this expensive trip. The Half Fare Card gives 50% discount for all of these. The downside, as far as regular trains to Swiss inhabited villages, is that you still have to purchase a ticket at half the normal fare, where as with the Swiss Travel Pass, you just board the train, and if a fare inspector asks to see your ticket, you just show him your pass. But anywhere above inhabited villages, you still need to buy tickets, and it is up to the operator what the discount will be.

"I have not heard of Half Fare Pass for Switzerland at all. How is that different from Swiss pass? That sounds like a great deal. If they are that good, why would anyone buy Swiss passes?"

The Half Fare Card gives 50% off everything that moves in the entire country - from city buses to the Jungfraujoch. That's the advantage. The disadvantage is that you have to buy tickets each time. If you are buying tickets out of a machine (say, for a city bus), there is always an option for the half fare, because that's what Swiss people use (they are eligible for a different half fare card). If your tickets are checked, you show your ticket with your Half Fare Card.

The Swiss Pass gives the discounts I outlined above - full coverage of boats and buses, as well as full coverage of rail and lifts up to Wengen or Mürren, and discounts above that. Similar story for other parts of the country you're not visiting; as you go up in elevation, some things are fully covered, some are 50% off, and some are 25% off. Things not up mountains (boats, buses, rail between cities) are 100% covered.

Advantages of the Swiss Pass over the Half Fare Card:
1) More convenient. You only have to buy tickets for things not fully covered. For EVERYTHING else, you just flash the pass.
2) It also acts as a Museum Pass. This will probably not help you, but for those spending more time in cities, the Museum Pass gets 50% off the Swiss Transport Museum in Luzern, and free admission to most other museums in the country. I used it for museums in Lausanne and Luzern, for instance, and got about 50-60 CHF of value right there.

Advantages of the Half Fare Card:
1) You get 50% off the Jungfraujoch, instead of 25% off with the Swiss Pass. Since the Jungfraujoch is very expensive, this alone can make the Half Fare Card a bargain.
2) No worry about whether you will get your money's worth. If you are buying more than 240 CHF of transit (and it's hard not to, on all but the shortest trip), you can't lose with a Half Fare Card. With a Swiss Pass, you must do the calculation to see it if pays off financially. Of course, for some, the convenience makes it worthwhile, even if it ends up costing a bit more.

TM,

Regarding your time in the Berner Oberland, are you aware of the routes to reach Mürren? From Lauterbrunnen there are two choices, and you'll need to know which one you're using when you buy tickets.

When you arrive at Interlaken Ost (it's the second stop), you'll transfer to the Berner Oberlandbahn for the short 20 minute trip to Lauterbrunnen. From Lauterbrunnen the easiest solution is probably the BLM route (specify "Mürren BLM" when you buy your ticket). From the station in Lauterbrunnen, walk across the street to the cable car station, walk up the steps and board the next cable car. That will take you to Grütschalp (only a few minutes), where you'll transfer to the small mountain railway which will be waiting. The railway will take you to Mürren, and you'll arrive at the opposite end of town from the Schilthornbahn cable car.

On the topic of Swiss rail passes, as you've probably discovered there are many different choices. These are so complicated that some of us here have resorted to using spreadsheets to try and figure them out. Which one to buy will depend on specifically which trains and mountain lifts you'll be using. In addition to the Swiss Pass and the Half Fare Card, you could also look at the Berner Oberland Regional Pass. There's no easy answer so you'll have to do the number crunching.

Have you considered car rental? You are free to go where you want, when you want. Driving in Europe is very easy, roads are well marked, and a good GPS with latest maps will get you where you want to go. A few issues to be aware of are speed cameras and traffic zones (Italy).

Of course, while in Muerren, the car will sit in the paid parking lots in Lauterbrunnen or Stechelberg. And there is a whole other parcel of issues with car rentals, like insurance, highway vignettes in Switzerland and Austria, International drop charges, requirement to have an International Drivers Permit, and parking fees, and massive inconvenience in large cities. Oh yeah, ZTL's and speed trap cameras too.

I initially considered car rental, but decided it'd be too much work and planning. Plus, it's so beautiful in Europe, we would prefer to not have to stress about cars, but thank you for the advice!

Eurail passes go in the same pocket with the Traveler's Cheques i.e. they have been obsolete for a very long time. There was a day when you could just hop on a train with the pass and it was a cheap way to drift around Europe. Those days are long gone with the limits on seats for pass holders and the need for expensive seat reservations on high speed trains.

You get your best rail prices by booking several months ahead. e.g. we pay 35 Euros to take the Thalys to Amsterdam. The first time we did it, we paid about 100 Euros because we hadn't planned ahead. Some tickets are even less than a third if bought very early. You can book long haul train trips on line ahead. If you are having trouble you are probably on the wrong web site.