Spring (May ish) or Fall (Oct)

Hi lugubres -
Could you clarify something? By "Flight to Florence, train trips to different cities on various days" did you mean that you intend to base in Florence and day-trip Lucca, Verona, Parma, etc. (not the CT) from there? If so, some of the cities on your list really aren't day-trip distance from Florence; they're too far away.

As well, if basing in Florence is currently the plan, I see from a previous post that you've been there before, and your parent's interest is in smaller towns? If there is little interest in museums - which Florence is particularly rich with - you might skip it altogether and base further north, closer to Verona, Padova, Bassano del Grappa, etc., not that all of the destinations on your list are 'small'.

La Spezia (base for Cinque Terre day trip)

Do your parents have any mobility limitations? I'm asking as the CT isn't the easiest place for people having difficulties dealing with steps and inclines. That aside, you might consider basing in Levanto instead of La Spezia; it's said to be a more attractive city, and you need two nights for a full day in CT but maybe you were already planning to do that. :O)

Daylight is what it is: if Oct. is when you need to travel for the reasons you've given, then you need to get early starts to maximize those sightseeing hours before dark. It's possible that your accommodation will pack you a bag breakfast if they don't start serving early enough in the morning to accommodate your schedule; one of ours offered to do that when we had to catch an early flight.

Thank you @Kathy. Sorry for not being clear.

Yes we've been those major Italian cities Florence, Rome, Venice long ago. This time trying to do some smaller cities (Tuscan (Piensa, Montepulciano), Cinque Terre, etc.) and some northern ones (yes you are right they are not small. I should not have lumped them under "small") such Verona, Padua etc.)

Fly into Florence then take the train to Lucca; stay for 1-2 nights (depending on flight time & train travel time from the airport to Lucca); next stop train to La Spezia 2 nights (one day is for Cinque Terre visit), and so on. Always moving forward to the next location.

The intention is to do a few loops. Florence airport to Lucca as it'll faciliate reaching the next stop La Spezia; also easier to get to Parma afterwards. From that point onward it'll be "northish" locations: Verona Trento .... then to a bigger city to take the train to Florence airport as I need an automatic car and it has longer opening hours as well as no lunch closure. Then it'll be driving to Volterra, but staying in Siena, and then another day staying in an agriturismo in Montepulciano and so on.

Nothing is final yet. Might have to change/shorten the Oct 2023 itinerary again to save / give a day or two to May (2024) as both fall into the same vacation request period for me. I need to plan ahead or try to place "hold" on any potential dates.

Parents mobility: they are fine considering their age. Will need to take more breaks. We don't plan on taking any hikes but just touring the 5 villages. The last "climb" was Pulpit Rock (Preikestolen) in Norway's fjords in 2018.

Daylight: I will have to work with what I have. Yes we will have to adjust our expectations.

Thank you again for taking the time to reply.

Hi Lugubres,

The daylight hours are certainly longer in May, but October can still be lovely. If I were traveling with my parents, I would opt for sooner rather than later for the reasons you mentioned.

A few ideas for you to consider based on your response to Kathy.

• In the CT, depending on when you go in October, it can get colder. Ideally, you can go in early October. I would suggest rather than stay in La Spezia and day trip in, that you consider staying in Monterosso. It is relatively flat and absolutely lovely in the early mornings and evenings. Depending upon the weather, book a Sunset Cruise. It was one of the highlights of my trip with friends. They have mobility issues and Monterosso was no problem navigating.
• Driving in Siena is a pain, I know you need your rental car to get to Volterra, so just connect with your lodging in Siena to make sure you have a good pulse on parking and driving. There is a rental car station in Siena, if you would rather take a train to Siena and then take a day trip from Siena to Volterra by taxi or private driver and then pick up your car as you are leaving Siena. You can get automatic transmission cars in Siena.

This sounds like a lovely trip and great memories for you and your parents, enjoy.

Sandy

Thank you @Sandy.

Thanks for the tip of getting to CT in early October as it can get cold.

Can you elaborate on "driving in Siena is a pain"? I'm fully aware of the ZTL zone and not to go across it. I was thinking of staying outside Siena and when visiting it, park the car in the garages mentioned in RS guidebook.

Taxi: have you used it? how to reserve one? how's pricing?
Private driver: too expensive for our budget. Do you have any that you've used? It's good to have a back up just in case
Have you picked up / returned an automatic car in Siena? How was your experience?

I would choose October, even though it might not be ideal for the Cinque Terre. I spent 3 weeks in Italy in May 2016 and found that everywhere we went there were school groups, reaching from elementary to high school ages. It was disruptive at times. You also make a good point about October being this year, as opposed to May of next year. We can never take our health for granted and your parents aren’t getting any younger. Do they have any mobility issues? If so that should factor into your destinations.

I absolutely would choose October this year due to your parents' ages. I'm 71 myself and am trying to squeeze in extra time in Europe by planning the occasional February-March trip in addition to summer travel. I don't like the short days in the winter (not all that different from October), but it's extra time in Europe. I will warn you that walking after dark can be hazardous if the sidewalks/streets are not smooth. As tourists, we are often wandering medieval areas that may not have street lighting on every block. I took several falls--fortunately without significant injury. Be sure everyone has an extra warm layer of clothing so there won't be a need to rush at night because someone is cold.

Ah, thanks for clarifying the plan, lugubres. Yes, I'd choose October too. :O)
But this is a bit of concern?

Fly into Florence then take the train to Lucca; stay for 1-2 nights
(depending on flight time & train travel time from the airport to
Lucca); next stop train to La Spezia 2 nights (one day is for Cinque
Terre visit), and so on. Always moving forward to the next location.

I picked this up from your other post back in 2021:

As parents get older, going up and down the bus / train and lugging
the small suitcases are getting more tiresome for them. We used to do
bus/train and staying at hostels and with a modest budget. Now have to
make some adjustments.

Your folks are now a couple of years older than they were at that point. Moving every 1-2 nights might be harder on them than just picking a base in the North and day-tripping to points which are within reasonable distance? It would allow them to settle into an accommodation and not have to deal with the packing/unpacking/moving their stuff on the trains every other day. Padova, Verona and Bassano del Grappa would work from a single base, and you could throw Vicenza into the mix too. Trento would need to be its own couple-night night stay but at least you could reduce some of the other accommodation moves. Just a thought?

Thank you @Andrea. I'll keep the "school group & May" in mind any future trips to Italy.
Mobility issues: Not much. For both I will plan more breaks and not visit so many sites as when they were in their 50s.

Thank you @acraven. Thanks for the warning about after dark walking as the path might not be paved and increase chances of falling.
I totally agree with you on extra warm layer part. Yes we always bring backpack as if we need to leave extra early in the morning, we need jacket scraves, etc and by noon it'll be too hot and need to be stored away. It'll be useful if it's windy later (even if it's not late at night). I always wonder how people can travel so "light" with a purse only. Backpack is a must for sunglass case, water bottle, etc.

Thank you @Kathy: it's true that we'd prefer not to stay 1 night and move forward as that's a lot of pack/unpack; train up and down. I think due to the estimated higher train ticket cost, it's better to move forward than to do a round trip of 3 people (day trip). At the time of this philosophy, it was to take the time for breakfast, train, arrive late morning, have lunch, tour a bit. Next morning breakfast, tour a bit then take the train to the next destination. I think if we will do Vicenza then it'll be a day trip from Padua. I'll definitely keep your suggestion of having a home base & do day trips wherever possible; budget allowing as well. Sometimes budget trumps it all even if it's not the most ideal situation to change accommodations each day. Just helping parents to visit / see what they can. I know it can't compare to spending 1 week in a particular location.

Before making a final decision about moving so much from hotel to hotel, go to the Trenitalia website and price out the train tickets. For nearby destinations there will usually be a regional-train option, and those can be very inexpensive, making day trips surprising affordable. For example, Padua-Verona costs only 8.05 euros on a regionale-veloce train. The travel time is 58 minutes. The premium Freccia trains are likely to cost 23 euros (unless bought early) and still take 44 minutes.

I like your destinations, but I am concerned about the many short stops. I hate them so much that avoiding them is part of my itinerary-planning process. If I'm looking at a two-night stay somewhere, I try to find another place in the area that will justify a day trip, so I can stay three nights.

Trains in Italy are great, relaxing, convenient, cheap. Trains with luggage are considerably more of a pain, especially day after day after day. Plus, with a home base with day trips you can just not do a day trip one day if someone is ill or hurting or slept badly or whatever. Traveling on and on and on, you have to keep going to the next town whether someone feels like it or not. My husband and I are 70 and 68, generally healthy and fit, but pretty much every time we go to Italy (for 5 weeks once or twice a year) one or both of us gets sick, hurts some body part, and have even gone to an Italian emergency room once each. Anyway, being locked into travel every day is definitely something we would think twice about, so three nights is our minimum stay in one town.

As for early sunset, we almost always travel in winter and I never even noticed the shorter daylight hours until I read about it on this forum. People are out and about in the evenings in Italy, and shops are open (unlike, say, here in Saint Paul, Minnesota).

At the time of this philosophy, it was to take the time for breakfast,
train, arrive late morning, have lunch, tour a bit. Next morning
breakfast, tour a bit then take the train to the next destination.

But with this plan, you have to figure out what to do with your luggage if arriving in a town/city before check-in time. Yes, there are usually places you can check luggage for a fee but that means returning to that service and getting your bags before heading off to your accommodation. Pinching pennies (which it sounds as if you are)? Many accommodations will stow your bags before check-in for free but you'd need to check if yours offers that amenity, and find that accommodation before heading off to do anything else. Honestly, accommodation breakfast is nice if it works but if one is on a compressed schedule - which you would be - it's not worth hanging around for it if that causes complications/restricts your sightseeing time elsewhere.

I think due to the estimated higher train ticket cost, it's better to
move forward than to do a round trip of 3 people (day trip).

I'll disagree, depending on the specific trip. As craven and Nancy have pointed out, shorter trips by regionale trains are VERY inexpensive. But as also pointed out, should one of your gang go down with a case of traveler's tummy or some other temporary issue, it might be a relief not to HAVE to pack up and travel onward versus staying put for a few days. Want a break to do some laundry and generally re-group? A longer stay in a base can be a welcome thing.

Thank you @acraven @nancys8 @Kathy for your advice.
Kathy: you brought up a good point on what to do with the luggage if moving each day.

Since I think they only release 4 months of train tickets, I can only see April to July. If I was looking at May it's too close and therefore I see many expensive tickets.

I will definite rework the itinerary and find a home base and do day trips.

Thank you so much for all your input.

Just to noodle a bit on train tickets, I punched in Padova>Verona on the Trenitalia site for a random date (May 9) at 7:30 AM and see tickets for assorted early-morning times for as little as 8,05€ per person, one way. Padova> Bassano del Grappa one way is running for as little as 5,55€ - 6,25€. These are not tickets you'd need to purchase until the day of your journey, and I don't expect those prices to change much if at all by the time of your trip. We're all different so even if these prices don't fall into my "expensive" range, they might for you?

Keep in mind that the only extra fee, if you will, of basing in one city and day tripping from there would be for RETURN trips as you'd be paying for point-to-point tickets to get to Verona, Padova and Bassano del Grappa in the first place. Luggage storage could eat some of that if your accommodations won't' store for you, although many will.

Here's just one more thing to consider: breakfast.

If your parents are either like my husband in Italy (gets up super early, gets dressed, walks around town, has coffee and a pastry in a bar, then is ready for a day trip or museum) or like me (gets up super early, has tea and either muesli or some yogurt and fruit, only then gets dressed and is ready to go out) you could save money by not staying in hotels with breakfast served (or you can pay for the room-only option). It would drive us crazy to have to wait and wait for an 8:00am hotel or B&B breakfast and then either eat too much or be paying for it and eat very little. Lunch is a whole different story --- we spend a few hours eating lunch every day in Italy. We think that's where the excellent, local, and interesting food is.

But, everybody's different --- I know from this forum that a lot of people like to load up on the hotel/B&B breakfast and then have a quick sandwich for lunch. See what your parents have to say about this.

October weather should be great! Our first trip to Italy was in an October and I worried about cold and lack of light. Turned out to be no problem, most days shirt-sleeve weather, modest rain. We always made our transfers early in the day and made sure we could drop off luggage even if rooms were not ready. I Needed gloves two morning for early departures. So do not fret the weather.

The other commenters are right on about the speed of your stays. 2 night stays tire us out (we are 70 and 79] and staying longer in fewer places is a more economical way to travel, I.e., fewer transfers.

I am not clear on how long your trip is. Sorry if I issued it buried somewhere in the discussion above. That many stops would take us at least 3 weeks and we’d consider it a fast pace. With 4 weeks we might be OK. My rule is no more that 2 places to sleep in 7 nights and at that it is a fast enough pace. Consider cutting your wish list down and enjoy a few delightful places like Lucca, La Spezia (Liguria is lovely in October), Siena, and an agriturismo for contrast. That could make a great two weeks itinerary.

@Kathy: I will take a look at the train fare again. Maybe I've got it mixed up with somewhere else. 8,05€ per person is not expensive. It's fine.

@nancys8 If I want to start extra early then I'll have to forego breakfast or book at places that don't serve breakfast. For sure I'll make time for agriturismo breakfast :-) Definitely need to adjust everything.

@Laurel: thanks for confirming the weather in October in your past travels. Trip length might be 15 plus some weekends. Of course it all depends on flight cost so might add or subtract. Nothing set in stone yet.

Glad I'm checking on this now so I can still modify and rearrange the itinerary.

Grazie mille!

One quick note on extra layers. We traveled to Florence, Venice and Rome last month. Before the trip I bought a very light weight down puffer jacket that stuffs into a small stuff sack. It worked great. Temps for our trip were mostly 50s-low 60s day time and 40s at night. Having that jacket as my top layer was perfect, especially in the morning, then I would just stuff it in the sack and hook it to my small cross body bag for the day. I was pleasantly surprised that it wasn't really noticeable as I walked around museums etc. I got mine at Uniqlo in NYC, but there are many options around and maybe on sale now! This jacket is definitely not warm enough for cold New England winters but will be my go to travel jacket for fall/spring. I bought it on the slightly large size for me, which turned out to be handy too, maybe not the most fashionable, but I would often wear my cross body bag under it and zip it up, for a little extra security, and there's always room for another layer!
Enjoy your trip.