I'm JUST beginning to try to learn a tiny bit of Italian using Duolingo'S neat iPhone app. I'm doing ok on lessons 1-3! But I have one simple grammar question arising from my knowledge of German which is a bit more well along. In G you usually do not use the 2nd person singular du (you) when addressing a single person who is not closely related to you. You usually use the 2nd person plural Sie. Is the use of tu in Italian used the same way or do I always use tu whenever I'm addressing any single person even one I'm not close to?
Posted by
Pensacola
9110 posts
Tu is the single familiar -- used only to friends, family, and kids. And household servants.
Posted by
na
75 posts
Hi Tom,
as Ed said Tu form is singular, familiar
if you want to address someone you do not know well you should use the 3rd person singular, which in Italian is the Lei form
if it's two or more ppl you do not know well, use Voi form
Posted by
Seattle, WA, USA
7737 posts
This is why this isn't a great forum for these questions, but I'll give it a shot:
Lei means "she" or "you (formal)". The 3rd person singular is either lui (he) or lei (she). The second person formal is Lei which is also the 3rd person singular feminine. (There's some interesting background as to how the 3rd person singular feminine came to be used as the 2nd person singular formal but that's for another day.) So if your waiter asks you in Italian what you would like to order, he's going to sound as if he's saying "And what would she like to eat?" while he's staring right at you.
As for 2nd person plural, you always use voi in spoken Italian when addressing two or more people, regardless of how well you know them.
And good for you for learning some Italian. Don't be frustrated when they respond to you in English, though. They're probably just trying to practice their English skills. :-)
Also, you know not to use "Ciao", right?
Posted by
Firenze
500 posts
If you speak some German, the use of "tu" and "lei" is exactly the same of "Du" and "Sie". Even the quirk of addressing a male with a female form is the same in both languages.
Posted by
38 posts
Not to use Ciao? That was my new favorite word for my trip! Why shouldn't I use it? Improper?
Posted by
Seattle, WA, USA
7737 posts
It's hardly a major transgression, but "ciao" is informal, either as a greeting or as a goodbye. TONS of tourists use it incorrectly and Italians won't be surprised if you use it, but they might be impressed if you use the more formal (and therefore more appropriate) greetings which are Buongiorno, (Good morning) Buona sera (Good afternoon/evening), and Salve (which is appropriate anytime).
The more formal goodbye is Arrividerci and the even more formal Arrivederla (which is singular). But frankly, you would be fine to use "Grazie" as a goodbye when leaving either a store or restaurant. (Be sure to pronounce all three vowels in "Grazie")
Posted by
Seattle, WA, USA
7737 posts
Quirite, you are misunderstanding my response, at least in part. I wasn't saying that arrivederci is too formal; I was saying it is more formal than "ciao" therefore more appropriate. And I agree with you that "grazie, arrivederci" is best.
Posted by
38 posts
Thank you very much for your grammar advice! I will be sure to speak as well as I am able to now that I know. Whew! In another week I will get to try it out! :) Arrivederci!