Siena to Florence rapid bus - important ticket info

Thank you for the reminder to always validate at the beginning of the trip.

You neglected to validate
It is not the ticket agent or the driver’s responsibility to explain that to you
It is clearly stated on the ticket
Therefore you were fined

theoluse, please ignore the rude reply. I'm glad you warned others. Everyone is new at travel or new to a place at some point. I'm going to be using the buses in Italy for the first time soon and if I make a mistake/get frazzled/confused I'd probably hesitate to post it here because I know some people are waiting in the wings to jump up and rub it in my face. I appreciate your warning. This post and the other one that Gail mentioned with the blocked 'broken' machine are going to be on my mind in Italy and remind me to always validate first! :-)

I was fined once many years ago in a California city for going straight at an intersection when there was a sign that read 'LEFT LANE MUST TURN LEFT EXCEPT BUSES', the other lane said 'RIGHT LANE MUST TURN RIGHT EXCEPT BUSES'.

I was a new immigrant to America then and my English wasn't perfect. The sign was in English and did not even have a translation in Italian or at least Spanish, which I would have likely understood given the similarity of the language.

This felt like a shake down or a very clever system to ensure extra income. Seems that a US State dependent upon immigrants from non English speaking countries would insist on road signs that more clearly instruct non English speaking drivers where to go, by adopting this European road sign.

Sorry, OP, but I would have to agree with Christine. She is not wrong, she just didn't sugar coat it. It is always good to warn travellers who may be new to Europe of pitfalls they may encounter. So thank you for that. However it is not OK to blame the authorities for ones own shortcomings. In this case not doing adequate advance research on tickets and validation. Especially in Italy. Ignorance of the law is no excuse in North America. Why would you assume it's an excuse in Europe? As soon as you described this perfectly legal action as a shake down on tourists you lost a good deal of credibility.

Please continue to post on these boards, especially if you need any guidance before future trips, so you can hopefully avoid a similar occurrence.

The notice that the ticket must be validated is written in the ticket, and clearly spelled ALSO in English.
As you enter the bus the validating machine is clearly visible.
There are also signs inside the bus about the fine to be paid if caught with an unvalidated ticket.

What else can a bus company do (the City of Siena has nothing to do with this) to instruct visitors that one has to pay the ticket to use intercity buses?

I don't know where the OP here lives, but here in San Francisco the transit works the same way. You must validate the ticket/clipper card at the machine when you board the S.F. Muni transit in exactly the same way. Occasionally there are fare inspectors that come on board and check and fine people. San Francisco also has lots of tourists.

Well, for many first-time or infrequent visitors to Italy, the validation system and requirements can be confusing or seem intimidating. Often different procedures on trains and buses, different locations or appearance of validation machines, different requirements for various types of tickets, and many locals have various kinds of passes that do not lead them to validate every time they board, so a traveler doesn’t see every passenger ahead of them validating. Also, as I have experienced, buying a ticket can sometimes be plagued by ticket machines out-of-order, or long lines at ticket machines or counters, leading one to literally be running to catch a train. So, not validating can be an easy mistake to make. And the practice of holding a travelers passport until they pay on the spot is virtually guaranteed to cause upset, especially when several people are involved in a single error, although I suppose the alternative is take passengers off the train or bus and to some kind of police post, even more time-consuming and bothersome for everyone. Just giving someone a ticket would not work. At least on trains, it seems ticket-checkers have some level of discretion. I myself have twice been apprehended for inadvertent non-validating, some years ago. One time I talked myself out of a fine, the other I could not, although my special reason was much more valid, I still think. I also remember one occasion when I was the only passenger on the last night vaporetto from Burano to Venice, a large one. Sure enough, along with me on the lengthy trip was a ticket-checker, and fortunately and thank goodness, I had indeed validated my vaporetto pass when boarding.
I think, given the state of the world, we all need to take the issue in stride, and also be forgiving with those who are upset by the practice.

We will be taking that exact bus in 2 months. So thanks for this reminder to always validate before seating.

However, bus drivers are not there to explain things to tourists. They are there to drive the bus.

Note also that the notion of checking tickets and fining immediately is common in a lot of places. In Budapest, if you can get on the transport without validating (which you can on the streetcars), if your ticket is checked and is invalid, there is an immediate fine which is pretty steep.

These methods of validating tickets without being checked by the driver when you enter a bus/train exist in most cities around the world nowadays, and also in the transit systems of many American cities where fares are similarly enforced sometimes in ways that may seem unfair to those who get caught, like in this example.

The issue is that America is a big country, and not everybody comes from NYC or SF or Boston etc. Many people come from towns and places where transit is non existent or rarely used (except for by the poor who can't afford cars) and where they never had to set foot on a bus or train in their lifetime.

This fact however does not dispense them from the responsibility of educating themselves before they explore the outside world of which they have no familiarity. I think the various Italian (European) agencies make great efforts to educate visitors, including foreign ones. The fact that practically every bus agency in Italy has instructions on the fare tickets in English is a testament to that.

Also, having no experience of how things work in cities around the world (including cities in their own country), does not authorize travelers to immediately assume it's a some kind of money making scheme to scam American tourists, as the OP (and many others with similar complaints) seems to imply. Those bus fare inspectors (and the driving drivers) are simply doing their job, a job that earns them no tips (unlike taxi drivers who will likely scam you) and which often exposes them to danger since some transit patrons become belligerent and violent when confronted by the inspectors.

Sorry for the rant, but my late father, who worked as a bus driver and later as a fare inspector in Florence, texted me from the sky to write this comment.

I was watching a travel vlog of two young Americans out and about in Italy and ... same thing. No validation, big ticket.

This is one of those things you need to pick up from a guidebook. Train and bus tickets, do you composter or not? Need to know.

Many years ago I was riding the trams in Amsterdam and I knew from reading that this could happen, so I validated. Same thing on a metro here in LA (the idiot in front of me turned out to have some outstanding warrants so the sheriffs were only to happy to invite him off the train, of all the people who should have followed every rule!)

I didn't perceive Christine's reply to be rude, but rather just explaining the situation. It's incumbent on all travellers to be aware of the laws in the destinations they'll be visiting. The rules about validating tickets in Italy are well know and as I recall these are covered in the RS Italy guidebooks. Ticket validation also applies to city buses in Rome or other cities, the Metro, Regionale trains, Vaporetti in Venice, etc.

Those who travel on the express trains such as the Freccia also need to be aware of the compulsory reservations and the fact that the tickets for those are specific to train, date and departure time. Those who board an express train with the "wrong" ticket can also expect a fine on the spot! I know that as I was fined many years ago on a Freccia, and I just treated it as a "learning experience". The mistake was mine, so I didn't argue the point. I don't perceive this as a "shake down" aimed at tourists as I've seen Italians being fined also.

"don’t expect bus drivers to explain anything"

Not all of the drivers are able to speak fluent English and unless you spoke to the driver, he/she wouldn't even know which language you spoke.

It's good that theoluse posted this, as the information may be helpful to others.

Rule 9
Observe the following with unsolicited bad reviews.
For the Original Poster (OP) sharing their experience: Your review should be 100% focused on what will help others, not an outlet for you to complain or seek emotional support. Stick to the facts and strongly avoid any emotionally charged statements and broad generalizations. Expect questions about your experience to find out exactly how or why something went wrong. Expect replies that give advice about how the experience could have been avoided. Expect replies that consider the other side of the story and not yours. These responses are helpful for our community so that they can make the best decision for themselves.
For replies: Replies should avoid any form of judgement. Don't pile on. An obvious mistake to you was not obvious to them, so don't be rude about it.

If the webmaster was handing out discipline and banishment akin to the bus police, some folks would feel they were unfairly treated.

Not buying the bus driver couldn't tell who the novice tourists are.

Looks like the bus driver assumed that the travellers knew what they were doing. Should he say “ricordati di convalidare il tuo biglietto nella piccola macchinetta gialla. altrimenti verrai multato” to every passenger?

Bottom line is don't be shy: ask. You don't even have to speak the language, just learn "please" in whatever language, show the tix and shrug. You don't even have to ask the driver; passengers will help you too.
It's universal.

I don’t use public transportation very often on vacation, but if I do I always look for the validation machine whether I’m in Europe or South America. In some countries they’re not immediately beside the driver.

I was a new immigrant to America then and my English wasn't perfect.
The sign was in English and did not even have a translation in Italian
or at least Spanish, which I would have likely understood given the
similarity of the language.

Roberto, I was trying to remember if I'd ever seen instructions in Italian for anything, ever, in the U.S. Nope, not once.

theoluse, welcome to the RS forums -
I don't know as anyone is meaning to "pile on" or to deliberately be unkind about a mistake. I've sure had to own up to my personal share of oops! It's the "shake down", "clever system to ensure extra income" and expectation for tourists to be awarded special treatment that's some of us are objecting to. What happened was a failure to comply with rules that apply to everyone. No exclusions. A bus driver can't be expected to speak umpty languages and be able to educate every foreigner that climbs aboard.

I'm sorry you had a regretable experience, and I'm sure your caution was well-intended! It just would have been more positively received by some of us without the implication that you were a victim of some sort of racket. You weren't. It would also be nice to hear what did NOT go wrong on your trip; what you enjoyed that you would recommend for other new travelers?

Actually Kathy, even without Italian instructions I would have understood the sign in English. I spoke well enough to understand "Right (Left) lane must turn Right (Left)".

I wasn't fined in the end actually, the cop gave me a break, but a colleague of mine made the same mistake at the same place and she wasn't as lucky. Since then they changed the signage. The signage just wasn't clear enough at the time. It was written words with no arrows. Now the signage is clearer at that intersection, and there is also a "do not enter sign". Also buses no longer go across the intersection either.

Theoluse thanks for an important reminder. I'm sorry you had this experience.

Re ChristineH's comment: I perceived it as direct, but be aware that I was chided by a friend for being direct even though I've lived in my part of the country my entire life. Some subcultures in the US expect people to always speak as carefully as a diplomat to avoid offending anyone and this is also something that we need to be aware of. In my case, the lady my comment was directed to had immediately said that my statement was accurate , but I was still criticized and told to consider apologizing.