Rude tourists

Unfortunately that is common behavior among many Americans and they carry it abroad with them. Europeans tend to be more civilized in their behavior.

The tour group street-hogging is not restricted to Americans, and it is very annoying to be pushed by group members barreling through to stay with the group. And I agree, it's gotten worse. However, I have also noticed group leaders and members making an effort not to clog the sidewalk.

I actually feel bad for locals trying to go about their day and get to work. I know places like Venice rely heavily on tourism, but can you imagine (and I'm sure many of you deal with this everyday in big cities) dealing with this every blessed day. I had a woman (North American - she could have been American or Canadian) complaining about an Italian (she assumed a local) being rude to her on the vaporetto in Venice - to which I replied - can you imagine dealing with thousands of tourists a day running over your toes with luggage, pushing, being loud and obnoxious? She actually asked me if I lived in Venice (I sort of wish I did - but not sure I could deal with the crowds!). No, but I can feel their pain (ok, imagine it) and try my best to be courteous...but I'm sure I've stopped in the middle of the sidewalk more times than I can count and blocked someone's way who was just trying to go about their day.

I don't think I've seen or dealt with any overly rude tourists (except one in Paris on the Eiffel Tower who literally was pressed up against my back like cling wrap - shoulder to knee - as we were in the long shuffling line to get to the elevators - and I don't know her nationality, I can only guess she was from the Middle East area from her skin colour - and she didn't speak English - but that is a huge generalization. She probably thought me rude when I abruptly stopped after this going on for what seemed like forever but in reality was probably 60 sec and gestured for her to go in front of me). One the flip side we've had some amazing conversations with Americans, Canadians, Kiwis (is that politically correct?!) and Aussies (one couple even going so far as to invite us to breakfast in Corniglia since the little restaurant we'd eaten at the day before was closed - we didn't take them up on it tho - should have).

Aaaannnnndd it's not just tourists. Particularly in Rome we have what I call "sidewalk hogs" who are not necessarily rude, but who are clueless as to how much space they are taking up, clueless as to needing to make way for oncoming foot traffic. Whether is is one person planted directly in the middle of the sidewalk smoking a cigarette who does not move when he sees you coming, or young people stretched out 5-abreast who are unaware a couple holding hands cannot pass unless they move. It is less of a problem in the north. In Milan and Bologna, for example, people more-or-less keep to the right and sidewalks tend to be more generously proportioned.

My "favorite" example of self-absorption was at an art exhibit where an Italian man stood about 12" away from a famous piece of art (Vermeer as I recall) involved in an intense SMS session on his cellphone, clueless that others wished to see the art.

No, it is not just tourists. There are clueless self-absorbed people everywhere I suppose, this unfortunately increasing attitude of everyone-for-him/her self.

I agree with everything stated above. Tiny sidewalks, trying not to get clocked by a Fiat or Vespa coming from either way, and there was a tour group--and it didn't have to be a big one, even 6 people will do the job--attending to their 'business', whatever that was. Hellll-loooo, can I get around you?!

That is why, among other reasons, that my wife and I traveled in the off-season. We did 17 days in Paris, Lucerne, Florence & Salerno, returning just over two weeks ago. Now--it was cold most times, and windy other times, and cold and windy a couple days. Not much rain, thank goodness. But on the good days--a 45 degree day in Lucerne under a strong late winter sun in the Alps where we dined al fresco & dug the heck out of it, or a 60 degree day at an Amalfi cafe and also the ruins of Pompei, it was magic. Very few tourists or tour groups. A few students, especially in Florence. There were definitely more on the weekends, however, and we learned to avoid those spots on Saturday & Sunday.

I don't want to give the impression that tourists & tour groups are like the plague. Heck, I am one! But it's a fact that the groups lessen the enjoyment of the whole experience, not necessarily for their rudeness, more simply for their just 'being there' and at least for this last excursion I did my due diligence to avoid them at every turn. Made for a much better trip overall.

For me it is the rudeness, on both sides, of those damn selfie sticks.

On the one side it is the increasingly pushy rudeness of the selfie stick sellers. One of my sports when I visit Italy - usually Venice and Rome, like earlier this month - is seeing what the illegals are selling this time. For such a long time it was the handbags and umbrellas. This year I saw more scarf sellers than before, and of course at night are the damn light up things that they throw up in the air or splat on the ground. But all of those things, except the umbrellas, keep the seller pretty much to standing still and they are pretty easy to avoid. Part of my sport is to enter into a little banter back, usually in proportion to the pushiness.

But you can't do that with the selfie stick sellers. They hold all their merchandise in their hands and they chase after you. And so many of them!! I was in Piazza del Popolo a few days ago around 4:30 pm trying to get into one of the churches and had to run the gauntlet of - no part of a lie - 17 of the pains in the neck. That's ridiculous. They must make a big profit margin. I wonder what they charge. No, BTW, I neither have nor want one.

But then there's the other side of the coin. I am a calm happy peaceful man. I have had it with people of all nationalities blocking and stopping the flow so that they can make stupid faces while holding out one of these damn things.

I was in the security queue at St Peters and had the misfortune to be behind a tour group of Korean 20-somethings. I worked out who bought all those damn things. Or maybe they brought them from home.

Then there are the selfie takers in the museums, the churches - right next to the no photo signs - and everywhere else.

Whoever invented them ought to be hung drawn and quartered.

It was fun, though, to watch all the sellers run in all directions like rats when the police descended. It was like rats, really running.

The sellers were always in the way as I went for my morning caffé at Tazza d'Oro. Plenty of enforcement around there too...

What really bugs me are the people in supermarkets who insist on leaving their shopping carts in the middle of the aisle so no one else can pass while they peruse the offerings. Or, the folks who insist that they are the exception when parking in the fire lane in front of the store. Rudeness happens everywhere.

Nigel! Save some of that ire for the Falklands! :)

However, I agree--in a curmudgeonly way--with every statement you make. Selfies are an indication of the disintegration of society. I only took two on this last trip, and that was only at the request of my family who texted me '...why aren't you and your wife in any of the pictures you're sending us? Are you even there?'

And that kind of says it all...enjoy your Sunday!

Oh Nigel - when we were in Rome last Sept, those dang selfie stick sellers were everywhere and in your face...I wanted to buy one just so I could break it over my knee and stab someone with it ;)

A lot of this seems to come down to congestion and a shrinking of personal space. Some (but not all) of the behavior described here would be OK if you weren't hemmed in like a bunch of sardines in an enclosed space.

There is a solution to this problem: Think of the iconic museums and monuments of Europe... if you can picture them off the top of your head, it's likely that millions of other like-minded tourists around the world can also do the same, and you'll all be funneling into these famous places together like cattle, particularly during peak travel season. What do I suggest? Have the courage to plan a trip that does NOT include iconic but limited access sites, like the Eifel Tower, Coliseum, Vatical Museum, Sistine Chapel, Louvre, Neuschwanstein, etc. Europe is so filled with wonderful castles, towns, cities and museums that don't get the hell publicized out them. You can leave out the biggies, and still enjoy hundreds of years of accumulated culture without having to battle hordes of selfie-stick warriors.

Seriously, we all probably know exactly what the Mona Lisa looks like already. Are we really going to get a new understanding of it in that short glimpse you manage to catch while pushing and shoving against the 5/25th Selfie Stick Battalion? If we plan our trips only using a certain Blue Guide Book that basically tells us exactly where to go, can we really be surprised and shocked that we're not alone?

Good one Nige! The "SS" is truly a curse...along with taking photos with an iPad help up high blocking the view of people behind you.

At a Vatican Audience I attended one Wednesday, people were so involved in taking photos with SS and iPad that I don't think they had a chance to actually see Papa Francesco. The "selfie" is one of the dumbest most self-absorbed things I have ever seen.

MPH is correct. It is sad that manners are so lacking. But it is the inevitable result of the "It's All About Me!" syndrome that is so prevalent among people today. Mainly, but not exclusively Americans. And it seems the younger the people are the more prevalent the syndrome. Guess the only solution is to spend as much time in Europe with old folks as possible.

TOM, Lewiston, NY

BRAVO!! Well said.

All very interesting comments. They support my feeling that there is a real lack of the allowance of "personal space" often in Europe and I frequently feel unnecessarily crowded, not only by groups, but also by individuals.

I understand what you're saying Tom (and I tend to agree with you) but it's easy to say if you've lived in and/or traveled to and all around Europe many times. Saying it to those who have saved their whole life to see the iconic sights in Europe and may very well only have one (or a couple) of trips to Europe in their future, it's like spitting in the wind. Not fair to ask them to give up their dreams because lots of other people have the same ones.

And it isn't just the crowds that are the problem, it's how people deal with crowds. As stated in earlier posts it's the self-absorbed, all about me attitude, a sense of 'entitlement' that some people have that makes them behave rudely when faced with having to balance their rights with the rights of others. Politeness and manners seem to be missing in our society and I don't think it can all be blamed on crowds.

Wish there was an easy solution but I fear there's not.

Nigel, I almost bought a selfie stick in Rome just so I wouldn't be approached by yet another seller. But then I realised I would still be approached as the sellers would operate on the basis of why own one when you can have two.

And I didn't mean to imply that the issue is with Americans. There are rude people from everywhere!

"Not fair to ask them to give up their dreams because lots of other people have the same ones."

No reason to give up the dream if it's to throw a coin in the Trevi fountain. But we shouldn't complain when we have to share space with a mob of other people who share the same dream.

You people complain too much. You all sound like a bunch of grumpy old men (and women).
If you want sidewalks with no people obstructing your way, stay in the typical American suburbs where there are no people walking on sidewalks, and often not even sidewalks.
Italian cities attract lots of visitors on foot, in addition to locals, so deal with it.

I have a funny story about personal space....

so my friend, after living in Italy for over a year (it may have been longer at the time of this story), flew back to America, via Chicago.....he was waiting in line at McDonalds, and the person in front of him turned around and had to say something to him, because apparently he was EXTREMELY close behind them in line....after a year of being in Italy and being squished, he didn't even realize he was squishing other people!

It makes me laugh :)

I heartily agree with *Tom's philosophy!* If one doesn't want to encounter hordes of tourists, add some less visited locations to the Itinerary. During my travels over the years, I've seen many examples of rudeness and the same "irritants" that have been mentioned here, and there's no excuse for that. I feel the same as Nigel concerning "Selfie Sticks" and they're at the top of my list when it comes to travel annoyances.

I try to minimize complaining about crowds at famous tourist sights, as I realize they're only trying to see the same sights I am. I've found that it is possible to get unobstructed photos at very crowded locations, using a few creative techniques. The one in the link was taken at Versailles on a VERY crowded day, and there were actually MANY people just outside the frame. Although it may not have been the perspective I wanted, it sufficed.

Any place there are crowds, there will be people behaving badly. My pet peeve is people blatantly cutting in line. When we go to Europe we find that cutting in line seems to be more common than back home. Or maybe it's just that if you get out in the world you are going to have more experiences and some of them will be negative.

this is very illuminating. I will now understand why people will be standing so close to me when I think they shouldn't. I tend to let people know that they are too close however I may need to demonstrate a little more tolerance when in Europe.

"a certain Blue Guide Book that basically tells us exactly where to go"

Seriously? Where does Rick tell anyone where to go? He makes recommendations. We're not robots. We can choose to follow them or not.

What is it about us, as 'ugly tourists' (excluding present company, of course, as we're on this site so we don't do these things!) that we have to digitally document every place we've been, and then...insert ourselves in the picture to prove it! Maybe that's been going on forever with Polaroids and home movies. Argh...

Yes, yes, I can sympathize--weakly--with those tourists and their selfie sticks with Il Duomo, or the Mona Lisa, or a Pompei sarcophagus in the background, seeing that it will probably be the only time in their life they'll be there. But what the heck does that selfie prove?! "Yeah, I was there and I posted it on Facebook and you can't take that away from me...ever!", you think? Geez, you might want to enjoy it by researching what you're going to see beforehand & understanding the significance of it. I must say that approach and then enhancing it while there with a recorded RS podcast was the way to go. Pompei was absolutely enthralling because of that.

We picnicked by one of the amphitheaters while in Pompei, and I said to her, "..wanna know what the ultimate 'ugly tourist' move here would be? Take a pic of me trying to feed a sandwich to one of the sarcophaguses." (sarcophagi?). Needless to say, it was only a fleeting insane thought, and never acted upon. But I'll bet it's been done...

We saw this last year in London. I hate to think that we are heading out in a Month to Italy how if is going to be, I believe there are a lot of tourists now with the Euro so low. We are going with another couple who have not been to Italy, and they have been to France in off season, so I have already warned them that between mid morning and late afternoon it may be quite chaotic.

Speaking of selfie sticks and rude tourists, this was the front page of the big apple Post today:

http://tinyurl.com/pq96794

I have been hearing people fuss about rude American tourists forever and so have been carefully observing my fellows for the last 50 years of travel. I can say that in my experience of literally months in Europe that it is fairly rare for American tourists to be rude. (I am not on cruises or in tour groups so can't speak there) I see a lot of clueless American tourists, but not many who treat locals with discourtesy.

The worst tourists I have ever seen are tied between some older Brits and a Saudi. The Brits were doing the 'if we shout louder and are more demanding we will get what what we want' thing in Santa Lucia in Naples as we were checking in behind them at a hotel. The Saudi was on a Kuwaiti airlines flight and just being a jerk to one and all. He ended up seated on the opposite aisle from my companion and I and a few rows back. When food service came, my young associate told the FA that he was vegetarian but had failed to order a special meal and would appreciate it if there were extras or if they could manage something. A few minutes later he received a lovely vegetarian tray. About 5 minutes after that we hear our bellowing rude Saudi passenger shouting that he had ordered a vegetarian meal and how could they have run out?

The worst children are tied between a school group of young French kids in Nice who were dismantling the Chagal museum as guards herded them away from paintings and into the chapel where they ran, banged on the hand painted piano and bounced off walls with stained glass windows and threw crayons. An amazing event. And a group of Eastern European school age kids on an Al Italia flight who ran amuck and were totally not dealt with by the feckless FAs.

I have come across rude Americans (although not many), rude Germans, VERY rude Japanese groups (favorite was the woman who waited in line for the rest room at the Uffizi and then called her entire group into the line when it was her turn), one rude Dutchman. I have met only charming Australians and Canadians, although the last time we were in Paris there was a drunk under our apartment window at 4 am yelling 'where is the fooking pontine' -- so I am chalking him up to Canada.

I am a professional photographer and always wonder why people would ruin a perfectly good image by putting their face in it and possibly obscuring the most important part of the image:) I have to force myself to do one image like that per trip... Just don't understand the mentality of it and I guess I never will. I would rather post a beautiful landscape image on face book.. although maybe that doesn't 'prove' I was there? Who cares?

not a pro photographer but like Terry I do NOT want my face in the photo, with rare exceptions. So I try not to be rude when someone asks if they want to take my photo in front of whatever.
And all the above posters validate my avoiding the major tourist check off sight list. Slow travel, off season, less touristed places in my experience are so much more enjoyable. Just the law of averages says the more tourists in any location the greater the odds that some of them will disrespect the site and the experience of others.

Re: selfies in front of tourist attractions -- ten years down the road, the only photos these people will have will be a blocked view of the Eiffel Tower with a stupid face in the foreground.

on the topic of photos with me in them.......I am NOT a pro photographer, and I can find MUCH better pictures by buying postcards and the like if I want a great picture....

I would rather have a picture of my experience somewhere, that is why one of my favorite pictures from my study abroad time in Spain was a picture of my friends and I doing our Spanish homework on the steps of the Teatro Real (the closed off side haha) in front of the Palacio Real.....such fun....

but I'm really not a picture person anyways haha

As a 60-something I agree with one and all regarding the mania for selfies, Facebook, etc., and I find myself often making comments about such things (usually involving the phrase "young whippersnappers"). And yet . . . as I sometimes browse through a lifetime of vacation photos, I find lots of images of places and monuments and scenery and all too few of the people I love who went there with me. I certainly hope not to be found indulging in a selfie binge in Italy next month but I do hope my wife and I will come home with a few images to remind us that we did all this together.

I agree with Katherine and David- it is nice to be in some of my pictures, especially with my loved ones who are with me. It helps capture a particular moment or feeling. And it is usually the most random pictures I treasure- not necessarily the ones of the famous sights. So when I travel solo or with one other person, selfies happen. Sometimes, it is logistically the easiest thing to do when there isn't a place to prop up my camera and set the timer or I don't feel like asking a stranger to take the picture.

I am just throwing this out there to encourage people to not automatically judge a selfie-taker. Those people might be capturing a particularly special moment OR you they might be taking the only selfie they will take their whole trip OR they might have left their camera back at the hotel and don't feel comfortable handing a smart phone over to a stranger.

But of course, there is a way to take a picture, selfie or not, without being obnoxious about it or intruding on another person's space or experience.

Roberto. My original post was about the rude and boorish behaviour of some tourists and was NOT a complaint about crowded places. There is a difference. As for sticking to suburban America, that is a touch tricky given I do not live in the country.

I'm reading that some museums are starting to ban selfie sticks:

http://www.nytimes.com/2015/02/15/us/museum-rules-talk-softly-and-carry-no-selfie-stick.html?_r=0

Besides being just annoying, selfies - whether using a a stick or not - can be deadly. This is just one instance:

http://www.nydailynews.com/news/world/couple-plunges-deaths-portugal-selfie-children-article-1.1899500

It's a matter of time before some unfortunate tourists meet the same fate at the Grand Canyon, Angel's Landing at Zion or any number of other U.S. National Parks where distractions can be fatal. I've witnessed too many instances of frighteningly irresponsible behavior by selfie takers too many times to believe otherwise.

"Where does Rick tell anyone where to go?"

Hyperbole, of course.

I'm not a huge fan of having myself in photos either, but when hubby and I travel, we usually end up with a few with one or the other of us in them. Maybe 10-12 out of over a thousand photos will have the 2 of us - I just use the timer option. Last year, my mom joined us and the only photo I have of mom, hubby and me is one that a really nice Irish girl took of us in Ravello - she actually offered to take it - I didn't ask. But my mom is allergic to being in photos...sigh.

Then again, I don't think my Canon will fit on a selfie stick...lol. And my old school flip phone wouldn't work either (mostly because it stays home...and it's a flip phone) ... now - do they have a selfie stick for iPads??!! That I could use!!! (tongue firmly in cheek) ;)

Hyperbole, of course.

Tom, I accept your apology. (^_^)

I'm a bit dismayed to learn that the annoying Selfie Stick was invented by a fellow Canadian.

That's my friend Sree in the NYT article about the Met! Hooray for the Met!! I love how he said "If we thought it was served some great purpose, we would defend it, but . . " and @Michael OMG (Of course I always click on your BLIND LINKS), that is soooooo awful.

So, I think that [this][1] is the solution for NYC--maybe Rome should follow suit. And someone thinks it should be taken seriously!

Closed this too fast. Here's a Washington DC take on this.

: )

Pam

I love it, Pamela!

If it makes any of us feel better, travelers to Italy have been complaining about their fellow tourists since the era of E.M. Forster's ROOM WITH A VIEW. Remember how Mrs. Lavish would have "set an exam at Dover" and turned everyone back who didn't qualify to be a good tourist. ;)

I just went through boxes of slides taken by my parents over a lifetime -- everything of a place went into the dustbin -- we just kept those with people in them. No one needs a snapshot of the Eiffel Tower and if you want to hang it on your wall you probably want to get a professional shot. But we all want pictures of our family -- my favorite pictures of my mother are a shot of her and my husband and me slightly tipsy in a cellar restaurant in Florence taken on her only trip abroad -- a selfie if you will. And I have another photo from that same trip of me and my mother having dinner in front of the Pantheon in Rome at dusk. It was taken by a fellow tourist at the next table. The Pantheon is my favorite building but the thing I treasure in that photo is the very happy moment with my mother realizing a dream she thought would never be realized. She was 80 and barely able to travel having been tied down caring for my disabled father for the preceding 15 years. Her last chance for Michelangelo and we made the most of it. The view. meh. Pictures of people we love. Priceless.

Thanks for the post, Jane. I totally agree. I keep scrapbooks of all of trips and I use very few photos that don't have one of us in them. Sometimes I think it might be nice to have a "selfie" but my husband would just about die at the thought! My selfie has to be another tourist in the vicinity - but not a rude one!!

Barb

http://petapixel.com/2015/03/31/heads-up-the-tablet-selfie-stick-is-now-a-thing/

OK - I should have kept my mouth shut about a tablet selfie stick...this came out before April Fool's, so probably isn't a joke...

My husband and I just got back from Italy yesterday. We came across two tourist who were being rude to Italians. One of them was American, the other was possibly Dutch. I know rudeness certainly knows no cultural or national divide. It is simply a human behavior, that all of us may display at some point or other. Although, I'll admit, some are just more likely to be so. They must be very unhappy people, I guess!

What I found most annoying (besides the selfie-stick guys, as already mentioned!) were the numerous tour groups of teenagers. I guess teenagers can be disrespectful in any country. They were EVERYWHERE....we couldn't escape them! Everytime we'd see them coming, I'd do a double step to try and get way ahead of them, but they always managed to find me! They were so loud and always standing in peoples way. What was particularly irksome was how they acted in the sacred places. They had no clue that you must be silent or at least keep your voice down in a church. I know if my siblings and I made so much as a peep during service, we would get pinched!

Being from America, I assumed it was mostly the American teenagers who lacked respect and courtesy, now I know it's actually international. UGH.

Spring break is prime time for European school trips. That's what you ran into, large classes of kids. I don't blame you; I'd want to scurry away too. We were never like that, were we. Just perfectly quiet angels, LOL.

I make a distinction between rude tourists and school groups. From kids I expect no respect, from other adult tourists I do.

who'd a thought it - this thread has just grown up. The Big Five Oh.

Wow, Nigel do I get a medal for that?