RS 17 day tour

The afternoon of day 16 is free. Does that not work for you?

That tour only has 2 nights in Rome
1 day (arriving from Orvieto) Colosseum, etc
1 day Vatican

I wouldn’t skip either nor do I see any time on those / days to add Borghese ( or anything else) and I wouldn’t do Borghese after Vatican museums

Can you extend your stay in Rome by a few nights?

If your tour of the Vatican does not END in St Peter's - meaning it doesn't use the interior passage from the Sistine into the basilica that's reserved for tours - then I'd skip the basilica in favor of heading off to the Borghese, as you'd have to walk from museums around to the entrance to the church and deal with the (potentially long) security queue to get in. If the tour DOES end in the basilica, then take a quick look before moving on the Borghese (pre-book an afternoon time slot there).

I'm guessing your Vatican tour begins in early-ish morning and you'd be done by noon or so but you need to check with the RS folks to confirm. Doesn't look like you really have any time for "off the beaten" if you've not planned to stay additional time in Rome.

Apothecary in Florence:
Officina Profumo-Farmaceutica di Santa Maria Novella
https://us.smnovella.com/pages/about-us
https://www.romeing.it/florence/santa-maria-novella-pharmacy-perfume/

Also attached to San Miniato (that church is a MUST, IMHO):
The monks produce beeswax candles, chocolates, cookies, tarts, herbal skins products and other goodies which are sold at their store (farmacia), which is on your left as you face the front entry outside of the church. The website states. "Our shop is open every day generally from 10.00 until 18.00, with a break from 12.15 until 16.00."

Also....
https://community.ricksteves.com/travel-forum/italy/lesser-known-things-in-florence
https://community.ricksteves.com/travel-forum/italy/florence-off-the-beaten-path

...altho I don't know as I'd call everything on the lists "lesser known" or "off the beaten".

No additional time is scheduled. I realize some say not to skip something… but art is more valuable to me. Long ago I’ve seen Treasures of the Vatican and I’d rather breeze through these galleries in favor of Borghese gallery. Frankly Rome is less of an interest to me than Florence and Venice. The off the beaten path request is more for other areas of Italy. Thanks so far for the comments.

Unfortunately, it looks like the tour ends in St Peters, rather than starting there. Otherwise, I'd say go on the Vatican tour and drop out as soon as you have seen St Peters. As it seems like the tour starts at the Vatican Museum portion, you will just have to skip the whole thing. So, do it. Just skip the Vatican altogether.

IMO The Bernini statues at the Borghese are breathtaking and the best sculptures (among so many great ones) in Italy. I have seen them more than once. They are not to be missed. Then, if you want, just gaze at St Peters from the outside and marvel at the structure...it is the best part of the experience anyway. To me, the whole Vatican experience is a waste of precious time and I've found it extremely upsetting anyway. But that's me.

Certainly, if I only had one day in Rome, I would not come anywhere near to wasting it at the Vatican. See the Borghese and then just enjoy being in Rome! Enjoy the little things that make Rome for you! It is your last day in Italy.

Right, I'd skip the Vatican tour altogether if not high on the interest list. The Borghese collection is excellent - the Berninis ALONE are worth the ticket - and their crowd control is welcome relief compared to the zoo at St Peter's/Vatican Museums.

If you’ve already seen the treasure of the Vatican, I would skip the Vatican tour and go to the Borghese Gallery. You will have museum fatigue if you tried to do both in the same day. Be sure you purchase your ticket on-line way ahead of time. The tickets are a strict timed-entry.

We did this tour several years ago and loved it! There’s such a nice variety of locations & experiences! In Venice, be sure to wander during your free time. The crowds are in the Rialto-to-San Marco path, so going over to a different area gives a nice experience, and there’s little shops here & there to explore.

I'd probably skip the Vatican Museums if you've seen them before. That would give you a full day to do what you want OR you could do the Vatican Museum, then when the guide brings you back toward the entrance area, leave and head for the Borghese. We entered at just before 830 (doors open at 830 but on our day they let tour groups start coming in about 820). I suspect we were done about 11. I stayed in the Vatican Museum to see more things but others left. You could schedule the Borghese at about 130 or 2. That would give you time to see it and still get back to the hotel in time for the Farewell dinner. I'd want to be back by about 6PM.

I did stay an extra day and did the Domus Aurea and the Borghese on the Sunday, then returned home on Monday.

I'd probably not make the reservations for arrival day. We arrived in time to leave off our suitcases and go find lunch, then meet up and head to the Colosseum via Metro (and have our transportation orientation). I'd just worry about arriving at the hotel in time to get to the Borghese that day for a timed entry.

In Venice I went to Ca' Rezzonico gallery one afternoon but I was particularly interested in seeing the 2 Canaletto paintings they have. It was not busy, no pre-purchase needed. Depends on if what they have on offer is of interest to you whether it would be worth it.

If you are interested, here is a link to my Trip Report from last October.

https://community.ricksteves.com/travel-forum/trip-reports/best-of-italy-sept-30-october-16-2022

The Borghese Gallery was a jaw dropping visit for me. My advice (and please take this as what I like and enjoy, not necessarily what you might enjoy!) is to either forego the Vatican Museum (enjoyable but liked Borghese better…smaller, easier to get up close and personal with the art, much better crowd control) or the Colosseum. It was also of interest but didn’t hold mine very long. Whatever you decide will be just right for you so have a wonderful trip.

To clarify , I’ve never been to Italy before and the Vatican treasures I saw was a huge exhibition in the US many years ago. Stunning but wow so much wealth….,.Is it possible to literally walk through the exhibit and then go to St. Peter’s. Inside? ( yes, I’ve been to so many museums, I know how to edit…) Do groups need to stay together? maybe I can breeze through the treasures portion and go quickly to St. Peter’s ?? Is the architecture amazing/worthwhile? I guess I need to better understand what would be seen this portion of the tour and ask the RS tour guide for timing.

...maybe I can breeze through the treasures portion and go quickly to
St. Peter’s

You cannot go "quickly" to the basilica if you are not with a tour that can access it from the inside of the museum. That time-saving passage is reserved for tours, and you must be with one to access it. That means that yes, you have to stay with the group.

The value of the architecture is a subjective thing. I was personally more taken with the fine trompe l'oeil decoration throughout the Borghese.

When I was on this tour last Fall there was no way really you could separate from the group. There is one set route the groups follow to the Sistine Chapel which is toward the end of the tour. You have a tour in front of you and one behind you.

The day we went there was a special papal blessing so the back short cut to St Peters was closed and if anyone wanted to visit the Basilica after the Museum they would have had to walk around to the front of the Basilica and enter there thru security. I sort of got the impression from chat between the RS guide and the local guide that the back way has not often been open since Covid but that may be a mistaken idea on my part. The years before when (2013 and 2014)I went we did go down the back way to the Basilica.

Pam, you're right about that back passage having been been closed for quite awhile due to COVID.. However, random companies are again highlighting that benefit in their tour descriptions where they'd temporarily removed it. I'm looking, for instance, at Walks of Italy's oft-recommended "Pristine Sistine" which states:

From the Vatican Museums, we use a special-access corridor to enter
St. Peter's Basilica*, skipping the enormous general-access
lines...The special access passage between the Sistine Chapel and
St.Peter's Basilica is closed on Wednesdays and subject to other
unexpected closures.

The Roman Guy's tours which include both museums and basilica state essentially the same, and Context, Through Eternity and City Wonders allude to it as well. I'm seeing comments here and there in reviews which mention that particular bonus, as in this one from a City Wonders participant:

We did the 3 hour Vatican Museum and Sistine Chapel tour, we then had
access directly to St Peters Basilica without having to queue again.

What I think is odd is that the Vatican itself doesn't offer a combo Museums + Basilica tour. Weird.

As suggested already, if you can add one more day to your trip that would solve the Borghese schedule problem. If you can't, then I'd follow Pam's advice and make a Borghese reservation for mid-afternoon of the Vatican visit day. IMHO, if you love art then you really should not miss seeing the Sistine Chapel in person. Unfortunately you must stick with the group to do so. But you can scoot along just as soon as they set you free. Depending on Borghese reservation time you might need to take a taxi - ask the guide for help planning efficient travel. It will be an exhausting, packed day but it is what it is. You can sleep on the plane on the way home.

Since you're big on art, I'd suggest skipping the Colosseum rather than the Vatican Museums. I've been to Rome 3 times and have felt no desire to see the interior of the Colosseum. Art means a lot to me; ancient history, not so much.

You don't have to stick with the tour all the way through the Vatican Museums unless you want to see St. Peter's via the shortcut from the Museums. You can follow the signs to the Sidtine Chaprl (that will take a good bit of time even if you don't stop yo look at anything along the way) and the follow signs to the exit.

The Vatican has two areas with a concentration of paintings--the Pinacoteca and the collection of modern/contemporary (mostly religious) art. Both were uncrowded on the day of my recent afternoon visit when much of the rest of the complex was packed.

The Pinacoteca is near the end of the tour (as currently laid out), up a not-well-marked staircase that might also have been accessible shortly after entry. It was my last target right before exiting, and I walked past the stairs I needed to take without realizing the Pinacoteca was at the top.
Fortunately, there was a staffer standing there as I approached the stairs for the second time, so I got the instructions I needed.

The modern/contemporary-art section is one of those areas the Museums make it easy to bypass if you want to; the signs were pretty clear.

The Borghese Gallery is wonderful,especially Bernini’s sculptures. I don’t like huge crowds and endless halls of art so missing the Vatican gallery and even the Sistine chapel is no big loss. Been 2 times and it was 2 times too many. Did like the time in St Peters even walking to the roof. You could see St Peters cathedral after the Borghese.Seeing Borghese after the Vatican museums means you are a marathon traveler or will be too tired to enjoy the visit. The coliseum and Roman forum tour is insite into Ancient Rome. There is a lot to see walking in that area of the city. My 2 cents😀

We used the "back passage" on our tour last September.
I found the Vatican to be the low point of the tour for me. I do know that others in my tour group expressed some similar feelings. I suppose it really depends on the individual. Once you enter the "flow" and are herded along in the Vatican you are stuck with the group and there is no escaping the mob.

I had a much more positive experience at the Borghese gallery. There are no crowds as it is controlled by the timed tickets. It was an easy taxi ride to the gallery, but getting back to the hotel was a bit more challenging for me due to ticket situation.. Tickets for the buses or Metro must be pre-purchased from machines in the Metro stations and I had come unprepared.

The Colosseum was interesting, but where history really came alive was when the local RS guide took us to the Forum afterwards. I loved this part of the tour. I would not skip this.

Thank you all for your advice. Because I booked my flight early, the airlines changed flights a few times and I received notice that I could make one free change. I decided to add on one extra day to see Borghese Gallery and hopefully some other interesting galleries, or whatever will be open on a Sunday! Plus the kicker is - the airline gave me a seat upgrade and now I have extra legroom ! Win win!

Kathryn, that is wonderful, lol!! So nice to hear that the change worked out to benefit you both with extra time and extra room. I'm also glad you've got an extra day as you can easily fill the time with something in addition to the Borghese.

Thank you all. In case someone is still reading this… And if you have taken this tour… I am wondering if you found that you needed to purchase any additional tickets to sites not on the tour. I realize I will need to purchase tickets for the Borghese in Rome perhaps a few other places.

Did you buy any additional tickets near Lake Como, Bolzano, Venice, Florence, cinque terra, Siena, or Rome?

Thank you

I bought tickets for extra venues in Venice and Rome.

In Varenna I was there an extra day but it was pouring rain so I didn't buy a extra ferry ticket. I visited the botanical garden in Varenna and the small ornithological museum, neither of which needed pre-booking.

We stayed in Castelrotto/Kastelruth instead of Bolzano and just visited Bolzano on our way back south to Venice. The tour goes to the Archeological Museum so that entry is covered and there wasn't time to see anything else and still get a quick lunch. (Well, except I seemed to have had enough time to buy a pair of shoes, lol!! on my way back to the bus. I'm not much of a shopper but when I do shop it's quick!) No advance purchases needed in Castelrotto as the tour goes up to the hiking area at Compatsch and your transportation is covered.

In Venice I got a timed entry to St Mark's Cathedral and bought the Secret Itineraries tour of the Doges Palace. I also went to another museum in Venice to specifically see some Canaletto paintings but I did not need a timed entry to that lesser-visited sight.

In Florence I went to see the Basilica of Santa Croce where Michelangelo and Gallileo are buried but no timed entries needed there. I spend a good deal of extra time in the Uffizi after the official tour was over but once you're in...you're in, lol.

I also did extra churches in Siena and Monterosso al Mare, none of which needed pre-purchased entries.

In Rome, in addition to the Borghese I got a timed entry that Sunday AM to the Domus Aurea. The only way you can enter is on one of their small guided tours on the weekends. I did it in the AM and Borghese in the evening. I went to the Capitoline Museum on the arrival afternoon as I'd been to the Colosseum and Forum before. No timed entry needed there either. I also went into a few churches which did not need timed entries.

Thank you!

Hi, I’ve been trying to get tickets directly from the Borghese gallery… perhaps the website is having issues. Is this where most people are getting their tickets?

Thanks

Yes, you should use their website and official ticketing vendor they link to site:

The website...which tends not to work for me during hours the museum is closed. That could be your problem too:
https://galleriaborghese.beniculturali.it/en/

This is the official ticketing site; you can go directly here if the other site is non-responsive:
https://www.tosc.it/en/artist/galleria-borghese/

Editing to add: I'm guessing from your previous posts that the Sunday you are wishing to visit is June 11, and tickets are not yet available for that date. When they DO become available, they will sell out very quickly so check frequently! There's some chat about ticket sales for dates beyond June 3 in this thread:

https://community.ricksteves.com/travel-forum/italy/borghese-gallery-tickets-9b9ccdf0-2c74-4384-a800-2c3b4c4a8f0e

Yes, the site doesn’t work beyond hours.
The date I need Is June 4. I checked this site and burst out crying because there are no tickets available for this date. I wrote a letter to the [email protected] address hoping that they will respond. It would be great if June 4 simply was not available at this time, I doubt it, it’s the free day and there are plenty of tourist wanting to see this gallery for free. I’d rather pay triple and not deal with crowds that really care less about the art and want to check it off their to do list, but this is the day that I made room for, not knowing it was the free day. I may have to switch things around if nothing is available.

Reservations are still required to book for free days as they observe the maximum number of visitors for every 2-hour time slot even on "Free Sundays" and whatnot. It is possible those reservations have not become available yet so let us know what shakes out?

This notice was from last year:
https://galleriaborghese.beniculturali.it/en/free-sundays-are-back/

Kathryn--the Borghese will be releasing dates post June 3 around "mid May" so keep looking. I need June 7 so am in the same boat, but I think it will all work out. Just keep checking every day and one day, bam!, they will show up. Have a wonderful visit!!

Thank you! I feel much better and will do so.

If anyone else who has taken the 17 day tour from Milan is reading this… I’ve heard mix responses as to buying train tickets online from Milan Centrale to Varenna. I figured I would buy them when I get there. Others are saying no, buy before you leave the US Thoughts?

For your question about train tickets, I travel a lot by train when I’m in Italy and purchase my tickets ahead of time - about a month ahead of time, to buy the more expensive ones at the Super Economy price. But, I don’t purchase my tickets ahead of time for the day that I will arrive in Italy. Also, your ticket isn’t an expensive one. For your ticket, it looks like Milano Centrale to Varenna-Esino is €7.10 whether you buy it ahead or that day.

If you do purchase a paper ticket at the station, be sure to stamp it in the validation machine before getting onto the train.

I agree with Jean. Just buy your ticket to Varenna the morning you leave. I downloaded the Trenord app(train company for Lombardia area) and just clicked in right before I left my Milan hotel and it’s wifi, lol. Extremely easy.

Just to be clear, will you be coming from Milan or from Malpensa airport?
In either case, I'd buy the ticket when you get there but especially so if coming from Malpensa.

Malpensa. thanks so much, that’s what I will do. I wanted to check because some people acted like I’d have to wait a few hours if the previous trains are booked up.

Also, I’m packed and ready to go in a few days. I heard it might be colder and wetter than usual. Is this so, perhaps I need to pack a fleece pull over?? Is the rain lately all day?

If you have taken the 17 day tour, do we actually go in Brunelleschi’s Dome and tour inside? I recall serving somewhere to book Day 8 after 12:00. Can’t find it now and I’m ready to book. Also did anyone find that a Vaporetto pass came in handy and was really needed, or just a ticket or two were needed?

“If you have taken the 17 day tour, do we actually go in Brunelleschi’s Dome and tour inside? I recall serving somewhere to book Day 8 after 12:00. Can’t find it now and I’m ready to book. Also did anyone find that a Vaporetto pass came in handy and was really needed, or just a ticket or two were needed?”

No, you don’t go in the Duomo or the Baptistry in Florence. You do go into the Accademia and Uffizi with the group.

You really only have an afternoon of free time in Venice so I didn’t bother with a vaporetto pass there on either of the Rick Steves tours I’ve done that included Venice. If you are going out to the islands or the Lido instead of seeing things in Venice, maybe yes.

Thank you Pam, this is helpful!