Road traffic offence in Italy

"Traffic Violation" seems to be a frequent forum topic:
https://search.ricksteves.com/?utf8=%E2%9C%93&query=traffic+violation&button=

I may be wrong, but it looks like they attached a copy of the official notice and are telling you that eventually you will receive the original from the authorities. At that time you will be given options for payment and who to contact with questions. Right now I don't think you have to do anything except wait for the original. I'm sure someone here who speaks Italian (Roberto?) will be able to give you a better explanation.

Speeding fine or similar. Wait for the actual 'ticket' and pay according to the instructions provided. The instructions however are unlikely to be in English as they are all automatically printed so a bit of internet searching will be required. I've had ones in Spanish and German and they can be a bit of a pain to settle online.

Looking at your Flickr post ( https://www.flickr.com/photos/123533405@N05/35227099580/ )
The title is "Comune di Siena" = Borough of Siena.
The second line has the dreaded initials ZTL = Zona a traffico limitato = Restricted Traffic Zone
These are the "residents only" areas in city centres in Italy Click here for Wikipedia article

Looks like you drove into a restricted area in Sienna, at 15:38 on the 31st March 2017 (first line).
Your letter from Hertz says "Once you receive the original copy with all the details of the penalty notification, you can decide to proceed with the payment", so you can't do anything until you receive that letter. When you do, it will have details how to pay. The standard payment method is internet banking, which is easy if you have a European bank account, but may be difficult otherwise.

It says that on March 31,2017 at 15:38 you entered the Siena ZTL (Limited Traffic Zone) without authorization at the Via Sperandie entry.

Thanks for posting this -- you just got notified in late June of a ZTL violation from late March, so I know not to feel "safe" until at least three months after our week of driving in Siena/Tuscany in May.

Sorry to hear. Do you remember entering there? All the ZTL entrances I saw in Siena were plainly marked.

@DougMac I don’t remember entering into ZTL. I guess I missed it. My little one wanted to go to the bathroom and I was rushing to find one. 

Looks like Hertz may have change the notification process a bit. In the past they would have just hit your credit card with their administrative fee for sending you information to the police. Now it looks like they are providing a more formal notice as to why you will be charged the administrative fee along with the request for your info. The ticket is coming but don't think you can do much till then. I would wait. It is always possible that the ticket is not sent. You can hope.

Ouch! $100 potty break.

pdx,

Unfortunately, it's not uncommon to go through several ZTL areas when driving about in Italian towns, so you may be receiving more of these notices. Hopefully you didn't drive in Florence!

Good Luck!

you just got notified in late June of a ZTL violation from late March,
so I know not to feel "safe" until at least three months after our
week of driving in Siena/Tuscany in May.

Laura, based on some past threads, I believe it can take quite a lot longer than 3 months before notifications are sent. Here's a poster who didn't receive notice of violation until over a year after committing it:

https://community.ricksteves.com/travel-forum/transportation/parking-moving-vilolation-ticket-in-turin-italy

But as Frank stated, this sort of pre-notice is a new procedure. Not sure if it applies just to Hertz or to all rental companies.

That notice that they included also includes the license plate number of the Opel rental car and how to pay on the web. Much improved over previous practice.

They have just scanned and forwarded the letter rental agencies have always received from the cops.

Unfortunately, it's not uncommon to go through several ZTL areas when driving about in Italian towns, so you may be receiving more of these notices. Hopefully you didn't drive in Florence!

I feel compelled to respond to this in case someone who is thinking about driving in Italy comes across this thread.

I can't speak to how common or uncommon it is for tourists to drive through ZTL's, but I can say from experience that with some preparation and care, they are easily avoided.

Every ZTL we saw in Tuscany was clearly marked, whether it was the small village of Radda or cities like Florence and Siena. In addition, it's easy to find photos of ZTL's on the web. I studied what to look for before leaving home.

Driving in Tuscany was a joy. Simple adherence to traffic laws, especially speed, research beforehand regarding the towns you plan to visit and a modicum of attentiveness can assure you have a great time and don't receive any surprises once you return home.

Wow, subtly marked, I would have missed it for sure unless I knew the red circle sign in advance. This road is quite far out from the Piazza del Campo, I wouldn't have expected this zone here at the edge of town.

https://www.google.com/maps/@43.3118677,11.3252043,3a,83.4y,117.25h,100.65t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sGX7oi3luQU5-lAMhqSDKnA!2e0!7i13312!8i6656

And the offending camera

https://www.google.com/maps/@43.3116582,11.3255155,3a,75y,295.99h,97.14t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sUvGwu2x50Vser1Jz46PuMA!2e0!7i13312!8i6656

Yeah, but driving so close to the city walls in any city is always risky. Even though may be far from the Piazza it is clearly right next to the ancient wall so I would be very alert in that situation.
In general staying on the main roads and avoiding smaller roads that run inside or adjacent to walls will keep you safe.

Don't mean to beat the OP up over this sounds like they were not meaning to drive on these backroads but had a child screaming for the bathroom and made some turns of the route they were on in hopes of finding one which is understandable and unfortunate.

Rotating Tom's Google view 180°, it looks like to get to that point you would have just driven through a gate in the city walls, and you then have two options, left legal, right ZTL. Straight ahead is no entry, and if you look right there is a second ZTL sign on the other side of the road. As mreynolds says, these ZTL's often correspond to the city walls.

I think the key point is the red circle sign. I was taught when I learned to drive:

• Red circle = forbidden (speed limit, no parking etc.)
• Blue circle = must (see "must turn left" sign below the red no entry sign).
• Red triangle = warning signs
• Rectangular = information (direction signs etc.)

And a red circle with nothing in it = nothing allowed, no vehicles, except the exclusion clauses in the sign below.

I suspect part of the OP's problem (and many other North American tourists) is that signs in the USA don't follow these rules, and many north American tourists are not familiar with the signs.

Anyone who drives in Europe must learn to recognize the road signs. A red circle always means a prohibition of some type ( usually represented by a symbol inside the circle). An empty red circle means "closed to vehicles" in every country.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Comparison_of_European_road_signs

In Tom's photo the red circle is at the top, so not subtle at all. Below that it also says ZTL.

To get to Via delle Sperandie you have to enter inside the city walls through the Porta San Marco first. Anytime you enter ancient city walls you always have to pay close attention to the signs. As Chris mentioned, the sign just before you enter the city gate should be pretty clear to anybody. You can only turn left (to go to the Parking lot) at the city gate The sign clearly says that to the right is the ZTL (white and red circle) and that is exactly what the OP did. I don't know what to tell you folks. Not paying attention to the signs will get you a ticket in America too, and in America once you drive across the soon to be built "beautiful" walls, you need to know the local English language too, because the "Left Turn Only" signs don't come in Spanish or with a symbol like an arrow.

Yeah, but driving so close to the city walls in any city is always risky. Even though may be far from the Piazza it is clearly right next to the ancient wall so I would be very alert in that situation.
In general staying on the main roads and avoiding smaller roads that run inside or adjacent to walls will keep you safe.

This is an excellent point. I always assumed any street within a walled city, be it Siena, San Gimignano, Volterra, Radda, etc. was ZTL. In the OP's defense, the ZTL sign there is not large, but it is obviously a ZTL and a sign below spells out ZTL.

This is why preparation and knowledge is important. I urge everyone to become familiar with Italian/European road signs and if there is any question, don't enter.

I see, going just outside the gate and spinning 180 the 3 options one faces just inside the gate are marked, so inside that's the second ZTL warning that I linked earlier.

https://www.google.com/maps/@43.3118889,11.3249819,3a,55.6y,79.89h,94.1t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1s3KpP8u0MBCvVR3a5_qA0pw!2e0!7i13312!8i6656

Does the bottom sign mean "no soccer playing in the street"? That's the way I would interpret it.

Just in case I ever drive in Italy. But I haven't seen the red circle sign elsewhere in Europe, just the same as in the USA where a "Do Not Enter" sign is used, and then qualifications to that underneath on a separate sign listing buses or emergency vehicles or in this case permit holders. Unless I missed it. As far as I know, there's no equivalent USA sign for this red circle sign, "road closed to vehicles," except a sign that says that in words.

I see, going just outside the gate and spinning 180 the 3 options one faces just inside the gate are marked, so inside that's the second warning that I linked earlier.

It looks like they zigged right when if they zagged left, they would have been in the clear and could have gotten to covered parking.

"I feel compelled to respond to this in case someone who is thinking about driving in Italy comes across this thread.
I can't speak to how common or uncommon it is for tourists to drive through ZTL's, but I can say from experience that with some preparation and care, they are easily avoided."

They are easily avoided if drivers are aware of them and take the time to familiarize themselves with the signs. However based on a number of posts I've seen here over the years, many people who rent cars in Italy aren't aware of them and are therefore subject to multiple tickets. Of course the other factor in this case is being inattentive while desperately looking for a WC.

One related point to mention..... it looks like we might be getting the dreaded Traffic Tutor system here in B.C. A point to keep in mind for anyone driving here, although it probably won't happen for awhile.

Thank you all for your posts. I did not drive in Florence city. I rented a car from Florence Airport and then drove towards Siena. I did spend good amount of time to understand the signs and read several forums but I still missed to see the red mark. I must say we truly enjoyed driving in Tuscany for four days.

I will update the thread when I get the letter from Siena Authorities.

We nearly entered a ZTL in Florence, I saw the red circle just in time and my husband pulled a U turn. I had expected ZTL to mean no cars but there were plenty of cars and buses driving beyond the sign. Then I learned that locals can register to be allowed to drive there. So having a navigator who knows the signs is also useful.

Tom, the sign you are referring to (like this one: http://l7.alamy.com/zooms/f42aac1c88dd4f2992c0710b9e1e0914/street-sign-end-of-a-play-street-or-traffic-calmed-street-where-children-cy0e99.jpg ), is a SQUARE sign, so it is information, and it has a red line through it, so it is "end of".
It is the sign for a street where pedestrians (and children playing football) have priority over vehicles. See the Wikipedia article here: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Living_street

Yes, the red circle sign is used throughout Europe. There is one I noticed at the end of the street I work in (in Switzerland), but with the rules underneath in German.
These symbolic road signs mean you don't have to read each language to understand the road signs in different countries. I learnt the signs when I passed my Driving Test in the UK, and the same signs apply in France, Germany, Italy etc. with minor variations. The only problem is if you learnt to drive in one of those countries which don't use these "Vienna Convention on Road Signs and Signals" signs.

P.S. the 4 red circle signs at the top of Tom's link ( https://www.google.com/maps/@43.3118889,11.3249819,3a,55.6y,79.89h,94.1t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1s3KpP8u0MBCvVR3a5_qA0pw!2e0!7i13312!8i6656 ) are of course:
No buses, No camper vans, 6 tonne weight limit and 30 Km/Hr Zone. All red circles so all legal offences if you disobey.

When I got a couple speeding tickets in Germany, the rental company notified me and charged me 15 euros for each ticket for doing so. Eventually, I received notification from the town where I got the ticket and mailed it the fine. I wrote the check out in dollars after calculation the exchange rate. I never heard from the other town. My guess is you'll eventually receive another notification.

Then I learned that locals can register to be allowed to drive there.

Residents, those that live inside the ZTL can register and drive in.

I live out of the historic center, so I can't get a permit and I'm not allowed to drive into my city's ZTL. Cameras don't distinguish between me and somebody coming from the other side of the ocean.

If they didn't let at least the residents drive in, they would definitely change historic centers into theme parks where nobody actually lives.

Beth, ZTL means Zona Traffico Limitato, not closed to all traffic. Those areas are Pedonale (pedestrian).

"Then I learned that locals can register to be allowed to drive there."

Hotels can also register their guests to pass through ZTL areas. However, as I understand the rules that permission is specifically for the most direct route to the hotel and does not provide permission to drive freely around the city.

Residents inside the ZTL may get a permit. Temporary permits are also issued for a variety of reasons, including taking someone to a medical appointment inside the ZTL, but the issue is you must be authorized.

Just because other cars drive in doesn't mean you can. LIMITATO means LIMITED. LIMITED doesn't mean prohibited in all circumstances. When the doctor says to limit your alcohol intake doesn't mean don't drink at all ever again.

Obviously the problem is people not knowing what the white and red circle sign means. It's not the Europeans' fault if the international road signage system was not adopted in North America. For sure it's much more convenient to learn those symbols than learning road signs written in the local languages.

I said earlier, I think the major problem is cultural. Americans would say that a Do Not Enter sign with exemptions listed is the appropriate one to use for a ZTL, not Road Closed to Vehicles (which is certainly untrue) with exemptions listed. Americans would be obeying the ZTLs if they were posted with Do Not Enter signs since the same sign is used in both places.

I guess I'm implying Americans would say a Road Closed to Vehicles sign is an unnecessary creation, there's no need,

Tom, a no entry sign (this one) is used at the exit end of a one way street. In the junction we are discussing, there is one for the straight ahead street. Vehicles are allowed in that street, but going the other way only.
The "no vehicles" sign implies they are not allowed, no matter which way they are going. I would accept that the "no motor vehicles sign (click for photo), may be better, as it allows cyclists, while the pure red circles doesn't.

It has nothing to do with culture Tom. Those are two different signs.
This sign means wrong way. Traffic is allowed in the opposite direction. For whatever reason the US has adopted this international sign.
This sign means no vehicular traffic in any direction. For whatever reason the US has decided not to adopt this international sign.

You are basically saying that the Europeans should use only signs the US has also adopted because the ones not adopted in the US are a useless creation.

The day the US make it easy for non English speaking drivers by adopting international road sign symbols instead of words, I will entertain that premise. In the 1990's California entertained passing a law prohibiting non English speaking drivers from obtaining a driver's license on the grounds driving without understing English was too dangerous. I wish they applied the same standards to themselves when they rented cars abroad.

Chris
It doesn't mater what the signs look like.
Florence ZTL has, in addition to the red and white circle, a bright light (like a street light) that turns red when the ZTL is active and next to the red light is a sign saying that only authorized vehicles are permitted. The sign is in ENGLISH and Italian.
Is that English language sign preventing Americans to drive through it? Obviously not, judging from the posts here and elsewhere. So it doesn't matter. Things will change only when finally Google self driving vehicles will be the only vehicles allowed on the road.

Not harping on this but in the US the Do Not Enter sign is used for both senses:

"Do-Not-Enter sign means that you are driving into oncoming traffic or you are entering into a restricted area."

so I think there's a cultural component.

Over the years some of the European signs have been incorporated into the US standards although modified a bit.

What the sign means in America is irrelevant. According to the. Vienna convention that sign means "wrong way", meaning you are entering the opposite direction of traffic. Yes it is a cultural component. Americans have the cultural tendency to make up their own rules as they see fit, and expect the rest of the world to comply.

This is the bilingual sign you have not seen in Florence. There is one at every ZTL entry gate:
http://cdn1.discovertuscany.com/img/florence/transportation/ztl-5.JPG?w=1140&q=60&auto=enhance

This on in on Corso de Tintori at the ZTL entry gate in front of the National Library.

Now show me an equivalent example of multilingual road sign in America. I bet you don't find one. For the cultural reasons stated above.

The problem isn't cultural it's that people believe they can drive where ever they wish and they don't do enough research before their trip to find out what the rules of driving are.

Many ZTL's are marked with signs in Italian and English and yet people still drive into them and come here and to other forums to complain about the fines they receive for doing so. If they had done the research before their trip they could have seen pictures of these warnings so they would know what to look out for and to avoid. They would also know that city centers are basically off limits.

Donna

The problem isn't cultural it's that people believe they can drive where ever they wish and they don't do enough research before their trip to find out what the rules of driving are.

The first part I disagree with, and certainly not the case of this OP who claims to have done some research. The second part is true.

I will say that the more I learn about the European signing system, the more I realize there's a different philosophy at work, not a simple substitution of one sign for another. Many times driving in France I've puzzled over some signs which describe what is going on along the road but do not tell the driver what to do about it. Think about it: American signs prioritize "Do this______."

I was there in the 70s when the word signs Do Not Enter were modified to include the European symbology. So when I see this sign in Europe I think, "Do Not Enter," whereas a European sees a description that straight ahead is oncoming traffic only, which although similar is not the same interpretation.

I decided to follow this topic because I have puzzled over why ZTLs are a problem for many Americans, and for this the OP posted the ticket so I could look up the location and get my first look at the ZTL signage.

Many times in Florence I have walked through this intersection and never noticed the ZTL signage, but of course a walking person isn't really reading traffic signs https://www.google.com/maps/@43.7728327,11.2494697,3a,75y,142.58h,89.35t/data=!3m7!1e1!3m5!1s3aEBgAhk4KSOV6rjEG4Ojw!2e0!6s%2F%2Fgeo0.ggpht.com%2Fcbk%3Fpanoid%3D3aEBgAhk4KSOV6rjEG4Ojw%26output%3Dthumbnail%26cb_client%3Dmaps_sv.tactile.gps%26thumb%3D2%26w%3D203%26h%3D100%26yaw%3D349.20422%26pitch%3D0%26thumbfov%3D100!7i13312!8i6656

I'll bet that English language sign Roberto linked works well for American drivers, "authorized vehicles only" is culturally exactly what would work for me. It's not a description of the situation, "restricted traffic zone," but a command or a declaration.

As to bilingual signs in the US, the committee of state and federal DOT employees that sets national standards have the philosophy that bilingual signs are cluttered and less safe for English speakers. There has been a movement for bilingual native language signage for informational signs New York, Minnesota, the trend started in Montana but I can't find pictures of those signs.

Chris: thanks for the sign explanation, I should have figured that out.

Well in Montreal all traffic signs are unilingually, take-no-prisoners French and that includes parking restriction signs. The latter will offer all kinds of information on days of the week, hours of the day, maintenance days, snow removal activity, whether it is or is not a paid parking spot or a residents only area. Good luck if you do not understand French. No accommodation is made for English speaking tourists, or English only Montrealers, for that matter. The law is that all public signage must be in French only. Tim would be very unhappy here.

If I'm Tim, you're not reading my posts very closely. I'm blaming lack of knowledge of the meaning of the red circle sign as the whole problem with Americans getting ZTL infractions. I don't see that's there's even a language component in these infractions.

If the http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-2Se7ljpTrGg/TgWpDkcg1PI/AAAAAAAACrk/2yUTdFFL1nk/s1600/Indk%25C3%25B8rsel+forbudt.jpg sign were used instead (as it would be in the US), Americans would be obeying it, but I'm being told that this sign isn't used in that way in Europe, and wouldn't be seen as appropriate.

No, that wouldn't work. There is no traffic coming towards you, and the road is not closed. You just have to have the right to drive on it.

The situation is much like a no trucks over 7.5 tonnes. The road is open, if you are permitted you can drive on it, and if you are restricted you may not. The white circle surrounded by a red ring is exactly what is needed.

So let's throw "Arco Attiva" or non-Attiva into the mix. ZTLs have mixed restrictions.

So Tom.
Let's assume I'm a foreign tourist visiting America with no or little knowledge of the local (English) language.

How are these road signs going to help me to avoid getting fined?

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Then tell me if these European equivalent would not be better
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Regarding the fundamental difference between the two signs posted above, the white and red circle basically indicates a largely pedestrianized area where only some vehicles are permitted.

The other indicates the traffic is fully allowed, but in the opposite direction compared to what you are about to enter. Therefor the correct translation of this sign is WRONG WAY, do not enter from this end.

Yes, I agree that the reason why so many Americans are caught by the ZTL is the lack of familiarity with this international road sign, in North America.

Actually, we knew the road sign. We saw the road sign. But when you're depending on GPS lady for directions ... and you come to a place with three ways to go but you have no idea whether the ones without the ZTL sign will lead to more ZTL's ...
But the rest of the trip was great.

Actually, we knew the road sign. We saw the road sign. But when you're depending on GPS lady for directions ...

I can relate. We took our Garmin with us, along with maps. Before we left our agriturismo, we programmed in the address of the stadium, where we were planning to park. We drove over just using road signs, but turned on the GPS when reaching Siena.

We got to the heart of town fine, but then things got confusing. We made several laps with Miss Garmin telling us we were there, yet we couldn't see the entrance to the stadium parking. On one of the laps, we almost turned into the ZTL. Luckily, the signage on the entrance we were at was much more prominent.

We finally parked for a moment and studied our map of Siena to determine where we were going wrong. We found the parking entrance was right where Miss Garmin said, but it is practically unmarked and much smaller than expected.

I guess the takeaway is that GPS systems are really great, but not totally foolproof. Pre-planning and familiarization will go a long way towards avoiding confusion.

Roberto, I too would be confused by this sign, and my native language is English! To me "do not pass" means I must not pass that point. Your sign No. 2 is, according to the official British Highway code, "no overtaking".
And this sign isn't "Wrong Way", it is "No entry".

We can't even agree on what to call them, but we do agree on what they mean, which is why the symbolic signs are so effective.

@donna

... and come here and to other forums to complain about the fines they
receive for doing so

I just wanted to know the offense and how to pay. As I said earlier, I was in a rush to take my kid for a bathroom break...

Well, pdx traveller, they told you early on -- you just wait until you receive the actual notice which will tell you the amount and where to send it. These things just take on a life of their own.