Returning to Italy

I really recommend looking at the actual, day-by-day historical weather data available on the website timeanddate.com, because we each have our own tolerances for being hot, cold or wet. Looking at 3 to 5 years' worth of statistics will give you an idea of the range of temperatures you may experience. Unless you decide to spend all your time up in the Dolomites, you'll probably want to avoid the hottest part of the summer.

The climate-summary charts included in most cities' Wikipedia entries are useful for monthly rainfall statistics and hours of sunshine. I see that for Rome, fall is wetter than spring. That pattern may not hold for other parts of the country; I haven't checked.

One thing you can be sure of is that there will be more daylight hours in the spring than in the fall if you compare periods with similar typical temperatures. The shortening of the days in the fall bothers me a lot even when I'm at home, but most people don't seem to mind that.

Italy has nearly endless destinations attractive to visitors. You missed Venice on your first trip, so tha's an obvious place to think about. If you didn't see any of the small towns in Tuscany, that would be another classic choice. Then maybe a watery area--Amalfi Coast or one of the lakes? It's hard to go wrong, though it's wise to consider the expected weather when you choose destinations. Early spring or winter might not be so great for the lakes, for example, though I am no expert on off-season travel to Italy.

Why don't you start by watching Rick's shows on Italy and see what attracts your attention: https://www.ricksteves.com/watch-read-listen/video/tv-show

We have been to Italy ten times and fall has given us the best weather. It has so many regions from the snowy Dolomites to Puglia and Sicily in the south. Check those weather charts as you pick locations.

The month of October is a good month to consider, as the weather is good and it’s much less crowded than September, which is probably the busiest month

Different strokes for different folks...

We've travelled to Sicily in October, which was perfectly warm but quite a bit of fog & rain. Chianti was just about perfect on that same trip.

But we've grown very fond of Rome in late winter--February into mid-March. Temps between 40-60 F. Just a sprinkle of rain. Hat & gloves for a brisk early morning walk, packable light jacket rest of the time. Virtually no tourists, which is my sweet spot. Even though I am 'one of them', the less the better. I feel shopkeepers and locals in general are more themselves. For 2022, we're trying an April trip from Zurich down to Rome via rail & stops in Chur, Lecco (Como), Verona & Florence along the way

I’ve been to Italy twice - both times late February/ early March. The first time we were afraid the weather would be too cold so we brought winter coats, etc. and ended up not even using them! A light jacket or sweater and maybe a scarf was all we took the second time. B-e-a-utiful weather! Plus, a lot less tourists! First time we went with another couple - we spent 3 days in Rome, then split up - they went to Venice, Florence and Pisa while we went to Sicily. They did say it was colder there, but still tolerable and fewer tourists in Venice was a super plus. While the weather was still nice in Sicily, it is the off season so a lot of restaurants were closed. I wouldn’t go there again that time of year. It would be awesome a little later, though.
All that to say - I strongly recommend March for Rome/Florence. Did I mention we got an awesome deal on an Airbnb apartment?? Great prices, fewer tourists and temperate weather is perfect for sightseeing!

All that to say - I strongly recommend March for Rome/Florence. Did I
mention we got an awesome deal on an Airbnb apartment?? Great prices,
fewer tourists and temperate weather is perfect for sightseeing!

rrphotogirl--

Truth. Huge VRBO apartment near the SMN train station in Florence, 135 Euro/night. A smaller but perfectly serviceable apartment in Rome overlooking the Campo de' Fiori market, 85 Euro/night.

Can't touch those prices in season...

Time of year: spring or fall (and the ultimate choices would determine time of year, and vice versa). If you are an outdoor lover going outside of cities, I'd consider June. If you are a city lover, I'd consider late fall or winter.
You have literally hundreds of options! I think you and the friend should each read and pick four places (if your timeline is about two weeks), then see where you overlap. I don't think there are any rules about where to go for the first visit or the tenth--I have been seven times and not seen Rome, Florence, or Venice, yet I deeply love Italy!

Thank you everyone for all the helpful information. We are just in the beginning, so a lot of conversations need to happen.
For those of you who have traveled to Italy more times, do you go to different places each time or stay in more familiar areas? My first travel friend had no interest in going to Venice because she had visited years before and felt like it was like the freeways in terms of crowds. How do you feel about Venice?
Orvieto was a nice town, but I think I would like to experience another area. What city would you recommend in it’s place? Lucca? Montepulciano? Open to suggestions.

The deal with Venice is that it gets a lot of day-trippers who arrive on cruise ships or low-budget tours that stay outside the city. The bulk of those people all want to see the same things. If you spend just one day in Venice, you'll get up close and personal with thousands of those folks crammed together. In Venice it is extremely important to allow enough time to get off the Rialto-to-San Marco path so you can appreciate the city's charm. Wander around. Get lost.

Italy has no shortage of smaller cities and towns you could visit rather than returning to Orvieto. Padua is right on the train line from Venice to Florence, as are Vicenza and Verona. I loved Ravenna and its stunning mosaics, but it's not on the rail line used by the fast trains and would add some travel time.

Others can do a better job than I can of suggesting small-town options in Tuscany, but I liked Lucca.

My first travel friend had no interest in going to Venice because she had visited years before and felt like it was like the freeways in terms of crowds. How do you feel about Venice?

kathyw.,

acraven has summarized the problem well.

Your first travel friend sounds like they got in the crowds mentioned by acraven.

If you do that you will have a horrible experience, so it is best avoided.

I have felt that a freeway is the best way to describe the river of cruise folks - they walk from Piazzale Roma/the train station to St Marks via the Rialto bridge on an extremely predictable route and do all that, and then walk back the same route. So that particular sequence of lanes is well worth avoiding, but avoiding that is so very easy. 99 percent of Venice does not have that freeway feel.

I've visited Venice many many times, and I always love it. The only times crowds are a problem is when I decide I want to do a particular thing which matches with when the big flow is where I want to be, and I know what is coming and I work it to my advantage. It all comes down to knowing what to do and where to go.

For example, I went up the Campanile at St Marks Square, later in the afternoon, and although I had a maybe 10 minute or less wait it was still crowded in the staircase. I now take a short vaporetto ride across to S Giorgio and take the rickety elevator up to the open top of their Campanile. An absolutely gorgeous view of the Canal and Venice, and can see all of St Marks Square looking across rather than straight down. I much prefer it, and the boat is a nice few minutes' ride too. No crowds, no wait, no line.

So it is all what to go to, how to get there, and most importantly when not to go places and which places to avoid.

I always love it.

My sister and I were in Italy in May 2019. Rome was warm but the nights were cool. Florence had a cold snap while we were there and the locals said it felt more like November. Venice was occasionally chilly and rainy. We'd planned for layers but only had one pair of shoes. We invested in those incredibly ugly but very efficient tall plastic boots and were saved wet feet. Nothing like rain to keep the other tourists away.

The more we travel together, the more "rules" we develop. One of those is to never spend less than three nights in one location. We also opt for better hotels. We have found that when we have a little more space and better amenities, we're happier and get along better. There's nothing like cold showers, icky rooms and josling for luggage and bathroom space to start the bickering. It doesn't matter that you're "out all day". There are still key points where you intersect. It helps to have some kind of agreement about food. Do you prefer restaurants or can you make do? I once traveled with someone who subsisted on champagne and chocolate and that wasn't enough for me. We love to go to markets when traveling and it saves us a ton of money. We stop for a coffee when we're tired and an aperitivo in the afternoon. It helps to have some structure for the trip and you've got plenty of time to work on that. For us, planning is half the fun!

I will be doing much more research on this, but on our proposed Zurich-to-Rome train journey for April 2022, we plan to base for 3-4 nights in Verona, daytripping one day to Venice, and one day to Lake Garda/Sirmione. There's a spa there--Aquaria Thermal Spa--that looks fabulous.

But in 3 trips we've never been to Venice, and frankly have heard more negative than positive things so far. Nice thoughts from you, Dario, give me a better feel for the place. We'll take a 90-minute train from Verona. Is there a day of the week, or time of day to visit, that would avoid at least some of the cruisers? I really want to enjoy Venice.

Jay,

Verona isn't exactly around the corner from Venice. It takes a while.

How early can you get out of bed in the morning? The Grand Canal is magic at dawn or just before, and for the first hour or two of the day. The workers are going to work and scene and atmosphere is completely different than a couple of hours later. By mid morning the daytrippers and the cruisers are flooding the streets, particularly the "freeway" (see above) until about 4 when they start to leave. The other magical time is in the evening, after the trippers have left, through the dinner hour, and as the lights start to come on. The Grand Canal is magic at sunset and the hour or two after.

How late can you get a train to get you back to Verona at a time you would accept.

The worst time for Venice in my opinion is any day between about 10 and 4.

I'm sorry, but day-tripping to Venice is not a good way to enjoy it. You'll be with the mobs of other day-trippers unless you plan to skip the most famous sights that everyone wants to see. You'll miss the quieter part of the day, too. Truly, it's better to leave Venice until a later trip when you can give it more time.

Hi Kathy, I’ll answer your subsequent questions:

“ For those of you who have traveled to Italy more times, do you go to different places each time or stay in more familiar areas? My first travel friend had no interest in going to Venice because she had visited years before and felt like it was like the freeways in terms of crowds. How do you feel about Venice?”

We really love Italy and have been there several times. Our first experience was the RS 17-day Best of Italy, and it was our favorite RS trip - each location was wonderful! During subsequent trips, we have been to each of those places during one of those trips, except Lake Como. I prefer Lake Maggiore, instead. I love travel research & planning and try to have 1-2 places we want to return but also several new ones. My list of favorites just keeps growing! 😊

This past year was supposed to be my daughter’s first trip to Europe (she’s 40), and we created a 3-week itinerary that would go to her wishlist spots, plus give me a few new locations, so we were experiencing something new together and I wasn’t becoming a travel guide! 😉. That itinerary was: Stresa, Milan, Bergamo, Venice, Lucca, Salerno, Amalfi, Rome. We had planned to go to Ferrara but changed that to Lucca to attend their Luminaria Festival.

Venice is both my husband and my favorite city in Europe. We have stayed there three different times for several days and even attended their Regatta Storica. It is especially magical to be there in the evening and early morning. We wander in the direction away from the tourist main path and purposely get lost, relax with a beverage or gelato and find our way back. For my retirement in 2018, I planned a solo trip to Italy with my own itinerary- fantastic time! My husband was fine with it as long as I didn’t go to Venice without him; that’s how much he likes it!

If your friend wants to avoid crowds, personally I think Florence is more crowded than Venice. Of your options, I’ve always loved Siena. And while you’re in that general area, Montepulciano is wonderful,
to explore and you can take the local bus over to Pienza. I stayed in Montepulciano for three nights during my solo trip, coming from Arezzo and heading to Lucca afterwards. If you’re able to attend any local festivals, those are always a lot of fun. Other towns I really like that you didn’t list are Verona (take the city bike tour for history & fun), and Ravenna’s mosaics are stunning!

One of your questions resonated with me "Do you go to new places, or return to the same places?" My answer is "Yes"

We love to hit places we have been, there is a comfort in knowing the layout, maybe a favorite place to eat or hotel, seeing the changes that have occurred, and the chance to hit smaller out of the way sights, that may not hit the "A List"

On the other hand, most of the places we go are new, and that is it's own excitement.

For you a second trip, and your friend the first, I do not think you can avoid repeating a city or two, Rome would be one, the other could be your choice, Orvieto, Siena or Florence likely, what would you like to share with them?

From there, Venice has been mentioned, good first for you both. From there, I would suggest the Naples/Sorrento/Pompeii/Amalfi area...and that would be plenty, 4 to 5 stops.

As for timing...about all I can say is avoid July/August...hot and busy. December and January have their own charm, but not for me. I did like late February/March, but May was nice, had planned on April this year that likely won't happen, enjoyed September, hope to again maybe this year, October might be OK, but face it, it's Italy, can it really ever suck? Maybe if you want beach time you need to plan a specific time, but otherwise, just about anytime is good (reinforced by all the other responses).

Thanks my esteemed colleagues Nigel & acraven, that's why I was asking...

IF we were going to daytrip it, maybe a 11:22-12:50 trip Verona/Venice, with a return 21:10-22:38. Planning on staying in Verona within walking distance of the train station. This way, we get to see Venezia at night, which has to be beautiful. But I know, and I realize, it's only a look-see as reconnaissance for a future stay.

Only one of a million logistical questions to be ironed out pre-reservations!

I've done a combo of new places and revisiting some places or at least regions. There is always the risk that on return, a place will not have the same magic the second time, for whatever reason. But there are also places like Rome where you could spend a decade and not see everything.
When I do visit Venice, I have read enough that I want to give it enough time and rent an apartment in a neighborhood where I can get respite from the crowds. I'd also plan to pair it with a stay in a small town or a rural excursion (*I've long planned to hop over to Istria from there, but there are options in Italy also of course).
In addition to getting the dream list narrowed down, I'd think about transport. For example, if you rule out driving immediately, then you know to focus on train lines (can supplement a bit with buses). Italy is one of those places where you don't suffer from not driving--on the contrary, there are hundreds of great public transport options. But some places do lend themselves to driving, so getting the first list nailed down is helped by knowing what you feel most comfortable with.
I am a huge proponent of regional travel rather than traversing large distances. I just find it personally rewarding to learn about Italy's regional differences and celebrate each one individually.

Jay, if you’re staying in Verona, I wouldn’t stay near the train station - Verona Porta Nuova. You want to be more in the vicinity of Piazza Bra or Piazza Erbe. Otherwise, you’re not in the prime area for enjoying either Verona or Venice. It would be much better to stay in Venice - the islands, NOT Mestre and then take the train to Verona for a daytrip instead of the other way around. Yes, be sure to take the faster train between those two locations to maximize your time there. The slow one stops at every town.

Good to know, Jean, about near the Verona station. Yes, both those times round trip Verona/Venice are the faster times.

I think bottom line is that all of us that have made multiple trips have our favorite stops, where we've felt most at home. I remember first trip, 11 years ago now, I had a high school buddy that had just returned from teaching art in Florence for 6 months. I told him I was planning on more time in Rome than Florence, and he insisted I should switch it around, which I did. Florence was magic, but only 3 days in Rome was almost worse than not having gone there at all. Did not like it one bit.

Fast forward to 4 years ago, when we gave Roma a second chance, staying in an apartment for a week, and we both decided this was home, that this was the place I wanted to spend a winter sometime in the near future. I finally got Rome.

So that colors my thinking about Venice. I'm thinking I need to slow-play it, like I did Rome. A daytrip is short shrift indeed, but on the other hand...if we were to stay in Venice, then Florence & Rome in succession is so...touristy, for lack of a better word.

One other thing--folks mention about these great Italian cities, including Venice, at dawn, in the early morning. Indeed, Florence & Rome are like that. One of my favorite things to do is to wander as the sun comes up (while my wife is sleeping!), walk down to the Arno or Tiber River and just...stare & think about what took place along these water channels going back hundreds & thousands of years. It's me & history, nobody else.

Thanks to all, I'm sure I'll figger it out!

I have visited bella Italia three times and always in the month of May. I have found that the flights are slightly more affordable than the peak summer months and the weather is certainly more pleasant in terms of temperature. As I've gotten a bit older I seem to not enjoy the swelter of summer. Generally in May daytime temps were in the 65 - 75 degree range but this can vary depending on how far north or south you are as well as the elevation. I have considered late September but May has the advantage as it has longer daylight hours which is important to me. Of course, June would have even more daylight hours but for me the weather is beginning to heat up. Enjoy your trip.