Restaurant etiquette questions

1
Can’t say that we’ve ever “ tasted” wine before ordering whether house or not
It is just not done
We’ve also never disliked a house wine

2
Order whatever you like

3
No it is illegal to walk around with open alcohol

1) Try the house wine before ordering? You can't try any wine before ordering it, except in rare circumstances. If you are not sure that the house wine will be up to your taste, get a glass before ordering the 2L carafe.

My view is that a restaurant depends on satisfaction of the guests. Thus, the wine will be OK to good. With my theory about wine, I never worry about ordering the cheaper wines - they too must be OK or the house would not sell them

2) Portions in italy are smaller than in the US. In the US, a primi is pretty large, but that's not so true in Italy. That also accounts for the size of persons in Italy vs US. They say you can always spot the US tourists - they are bigger than everyone else. So true ...

3) I would finish my wine before leaving. We usually order less wine than I want, so I finish my wife's. If you want more wine, find a cafe near the hotel and get the wine there. In Germany, apparently there is "open-carry" but I saw none of that In Italy last fall.

Your ordering will confuse the waiter and kitchen. It sounds like one person wants a primo for the main course, while the other is ordering a main course. So you'll have to be clear that's what you want.

You just need to get it lined up so each person is being served a plate at the same time, whether a pasta, a fish, or a meat.

If you are asking to split those dishes, that's a lot of work for the kitchen for a bunch of different stuff. Americans are conscientious about not wasting food, but the Italians will see it as "overly thrifty."
Portions are smaller. Most people order only two courses and maybe dessert.

At the end of dinner can you purchase to-go cups of wine?

No.

I don't find the portions small at all. I have been unable to finish my meal on many occasions--no one likes that either, so I'd rather be considered frugal than wasteful (as "doggie bags" are not exactly embraced either--you can't win, lol). You can always order more, so do not be afraid to order exactly what you want. I am a vegetarian, so I often get a pasta primo while my husband might enjoy a main, and if we have had an appetizer, that is plenty (or I'll actually have room for dessert from once). I do agree that you should practice some Italian (more of an issue in smaller towns) so you can describe exactly what you want.

but the Italians will see it as "overly thrifty."

No, we won't. 4 dishes in 2 is ok. Especially if Rich & co are dining before 8 PM, Waiters will know they are US tourists who are not going to occupy the table for the all evening. The only problem I see is that I can't get the difference between appetizers and entrees!

The house wine is so cheap that asking to try it would be seen as thrifty. As Roberto said, order a glass if you want to taste it. In places where house wine is still served, all the grimaces and rituals of wine enthusiasts would be out of place.

Wtf is a to-go cup?

It would never even occur to me to even ask for a to-go cup. Very kindly but Rome, Florence, Venice, Cinque Terre, etc. are not New Orleans. Besides, I'd worry too much about spilling it on something a couple thousand years old! 😉

We normally order 1/4 liter of house red for the DH, and a 1/4 liter of house white for me - or split 1/2 liter of white, finish it before paying the bill, or leave a little if we can't finish it all.

We also often make dinner of a shared primi + a primi apiece, and sometimes dessert; no secondi unless really hungry, and then we'll skip the primi. Just order what appeals.

No it is illegal to walk around with open alcohol

I have read in the RS Rome guidebook, and it's repeated in the RS blog entry and video below, that at Piazza della Madonna dei Monti, you go to the local convenience store, buy a beer, and then hang out on the square with it - sometimes with a sandwich or slice of pizza.

https://blog.ricksteves.com/blog/youll-feel-romes-lively-pulse-in-its-fun-monti-neighborhood/

Has anyone witnessed or done this?

1. Have not been for quite a number of years. House wine is (or was) usually decent and very fairly priced, even in Rome. Of course, they won't all be the same but I found that in Rome, and Tuscany in general, the reds have a 'Citra' quality to them. More expensive tastings we tried were not much better. The wines in Lombardy and Piedmont are, for me, of a higher quality.

2. Fine

3. I doubt it, though we once ordered sandwiches and wine (in glasses) at a delicatessen in Assisi, and were allowed to consume them by one of the fountains in a small square.

While the portions may be smaller than in US they are sill too large for me. I enjoy the variety of an appetizer, first and second. My husband and I always shared and made sure to ask our server and let them know what we wanted when and that we were perfectly happy sharing a plate. We never had an issue. You just want to try as many things as you can! Being polite and friendly goes a long way

markcw-

That article is 8 years old
As far as I know it’s illegal to walk around drinking alcohol

Perhaps with a sandwich and sitting in front of where you purchased it is fine

There may be different ordinances for different locations

I’ll let Dario or Ricky or Roberto clear this up

ChristineH - The blog post may be eight years old, but the same basic scenario appears in the current RS Rome guidebook, May 2023 printing, under Monti Food Crawl. Could be a case of poor editing... but the fact he's persisted with it for so long is why I'm asking.

A web search appears to confirm that a certain amount of public consumption is, or was at least tolerated:

Anyone drinking from a glass container outside after 10 p.m. is now at risk of being fined up to $170; after 11 p.m., any public alcohol consumption will get you in trouble. Bars must also stop serving alcohol between 2 a.m. and 7 a.m.

https://www.cntraveler.com/story/rome-cracking-down-on-street-drinking-bad-tourist-behavior

1. I have never heard of someone tasting the house wine before ordering it. If you buy a bottle, they usually let you taste it after they open it, like it is also common in the US. However house wine is served in a caraffe (1/4 L or 1/2 L or 1 L size), in my experience house wine in Italy is way better than the crap they serve at my Italian American club in the SF Bay Area, but if you have a particularly discerning palate, maybe you should go for a regular bottle.
2. You can order whatever you want. My wife and I often share every single course, sometimes we order two of the same course but we share those as well. Just make sure you tell the waiter you intend to share (s/he will bring an extra plate, or even split the dish for you and bring the two half portions in separate plates). It is also a good idea to tell them the order you would like the dishes to be brought to you. For example if your spouse orders only a second course, while you order an appetizer and a second, maybe you want the appetizer first then the two seconds simultaneously.
3. In spite of what you may have read elsewhere, there is no law in Italy prohibiting drinking in the streets, therefore you could walk on Via Calzaiuoli in Florence and drink Chianti wine out of a flask. What is illegal is to be caught under a state of “manifest drunkenness in a public place” (art. 688 of the Italian Penal Code). So if you are in that state of “manifest” drunkenness you will be subject to a minimum fine of €51 (up to a max. €309). It must be “manifest”, therefore if you are drunk but able to act normal, the fine doesn’t apply. The punishment is increased if you are habitually drunk. Now there may be circumstances where a local municipality may have issued an ordinance prohibiting the consumption (or even the sale) of alcohol at certain times and places because of public order concerns. That happens often near stadiums when certain high visibility soccer matches take place (when a British team comes to town, that is always the case) or also in certain areas at night which are famous for wild youngsters’ behavior. Now that I have clarified the law, let’s examine your specific question. As I said if you order house wine, it will come in a caraffe. You can choose any size (from 1/4L to 1L) but if you don’t finish what you ordered I doubt the restaurant will let you take the caraffe with the leftover wine with you. Frankly I’ve never heard of anyone asking the waiter to pour the left over wine from the caraffe to a styrofoam cup. More common is the circumstance when you order a full regular bottle or flask, and you don’t finish it. In that case I’m pretty sure they will let you take the bottle with you (that I have done myself). If then you decide to drink it when you are back in the hotel or if you want to drink it from the flask while you stroll in the streets is up to you. Just be aware of the aforementioned prohibition of being “manifestly drunk”. Also Italians generally don’t drink wine out of a flask while in the street, if you do, you will cause many Italians to raise their eyebrows but you will not be the only American to act that way. There will be plenty of American college students who will be there doing the same, especially in Florence, and, in spite of the art. 688, many of them will be also “manifestly drunk”.

Rich,

You've received some good answers so far, and I have a few comments to add....

1. I would consider it "tacky" to ask for a sample of the house wine before ordering it. I've found that the house wine is usually quite good and very inexpensive. Whether the wine is "decent" is somewhat subjective.
2. At my age, I don't have a large appetite and I've found that a secondi item and something from the contorni menu such as a salad or grilled vegetables is usually more than enough for me.
3. Others have provided good information on the legality of wandering about with an open container of liquor. That's not something I would do.

1. you are already choosing the cheapest option, can you be so choosy?
2. this year big news on Italian newspapers are surcharges for half or shared servings. But, for example, I often eat a primo and an antipasto in the place of a second
3. walking with a cup is never elegant, but there is not either a social stigma against drinking in public. Walking with open alcohol bottles gets forbidden locally only when too much drinking becomes a problem. But while I have seen open beers and open sodas, I never, never saw to-go wine cups. Very rarely I have seen a customer leaving a restaurant with an half bottle of expensive wine. Drinking wine on a bench is associated with homeless people.

No place serving vfood that is worth eating will have disposable cups.

Thanks to everyone for the thoughtful and educational responses. In conclusion there’s no need for a taste testing (I’m not snobby or cheap) and won’t be strolling around with a disposal cup of wine. I thought I remembered seeing on You Tube a walk up window in Florence where you can order wine but that might have been from some time ago.

Ah, Florence's wine windows!
These threads go back a couple years but might be helpful:

https://community.ricksteves.com/travel-forum/italy/beer-windows-in-florence

https://www.cbc.ca/news/world/florence-tradition-wine-windows-covid-1.5887677

I don't think that glasses of wine purchased from windows still serving are for walking about with but I'm cheerfully willing to be corrected if all wet. Pretty sure it's served in actual glass instead of plastic, and you drink it there.

I can't get the difference between appetizers and entrees!

Yes, this is an egregious North American error that drives me crazy. Of course an "entree" is an appetizer. It is an "entrance" to your meal. Somehow we North Americans have corrupted it to mean the exact opposite, a "main course." Kind of like when we say "literally" to mean the exact opposite of "literally" - I literally flew off my chair!

3 - while I've never asked for mine to go when leaving a restaurant, I was interested in the responses on this topic as it pertains to walking around with an open bottle/to go cup given on my trip a few weeks ago, we stopped at a convenience store in Firenze to purchase beer to take back to our room and I was surprised when the person ringing us up opened the bottle for my husband…I thought, “ok, I didn’t realize this was like Las Vegas and we can just walk around and drink”. I was nervous about it but no one bothered us…
Later in our trip we stopped for a quick bite at a bar and were asked if we wanted the drinks to go..which we didn’t but we decided to go ahead and order drinks to go on our way out…and enjoyed them as we strolled the piazzas watching musicians before turning in for the evening.

Unless you’ve got an expert palette for wine just ask for the red or white. Some restaurants will give you a sample prior, but I never asked. Order whatever’s on the menu, most items come at the same time unlike in the US. I’ve never seen anyone drinking wine in the streets, I’m not sure of the legality here

Roberto says " If you buy a bottle, they usually let you taste it after they open it, like it is also common in the US."

OK, they let you taste it. This is a ceremony not a real tasting. In my 45 years of drinking wine in restaurants, I have NEVER had a bottle which was "corked" or bad. This is theoretically possible, but vanishingly unlikely. Corked wine is due to defective corks used for very old bottles. I do not drink very old wine, being a person of only middling income. Commercial wine in the US served in restaurants comes in bottles with corks (or increasingly with screw-tops) which are very very well-designed.

So, you may be tasting the wine, but the test has a pass rate of 100% - no one turns the wine down.

I agree with Mark, BTW. While I have some middling understanding of German and French wines, the world of Italian wines is completely beyond my comprehension. There is so much wine there, and so many kinds. I don't bother to pretend to have any idea what is what. I just ask for them to choose for me, or get the house.

Drinking alcohol in public is entirely legal in Italy, unless a local government entity (City Government) has passed an ordinance prohibiting the sale and consumption of alcohol in certain areas at certain times for public safety/order reasons. For example some cities prohibit it in certain public parks where there have been instances of public disorder or uncivil behavior due to alcohol. That includes near sports venues during certain sports events.

What is not legal is to be totally (manifestly) drunk. That is punished by an administrative fine (it is not a criminal violation anymore).

So if you want to walk with a cup/glass of wine in your hands, nobody will stop you and fine you. Although it is not common to drink wine while walking as it is drinking beer while walking, however if there is a local 'sagra' (festival), there will be Italians drinking wine outdoors.