Question about tipping private tour guides in Rome

That's quite bold. I would be very put off. You are right, you shouldn't be expected to tip a business owner. Actually, you shouldn't be expected to tip, at all, especially before the service. The price that is set, should be the price, unless something above and beyond occurred. I would actually cancel the guide.

Cancel.
This is someone trying to take advantage of American tipping culture to make extra cash, possibly "tax-free'..
I bet he does not do the same to Italian customers.

I recall similar about one that saw (sees?) quite a number reviews from one-and-done posters as well as some long-term forum members, and who also is a recommendation in the Steves guidebooks. From one of those posts some years back ago:

"However, it was a budget busting splurge. We paid her around $600 (my note: this was 8 years ago; I'm sure it would be much more now) for 5 hours which included a private driver. We also tipped her, and she made sure to email us the day before that she would like a 20% tip. We didn't do quite that much because the initial cost was so high."

Just worth mention that the expectation for tips isn't unknown among Rick's recommended resources. As good as a guide is said to be, I'd find the expectation not just to tip but how much to tip to be off-putting too.

I would not tip a private guide as he or she makes 100% of the cost of the tour and sets the price. However, I would definitely tip guides working for others such as Walks of Italy and similar companies. They make very little money and yet have to meet Italy's high standards for training and licensing.

I think you are all right, though I hate the idea of losing our €200 deposit. Plus we were going to get a full day tour of Pompeii and Herculean (They bought tickets worth €40,). I guess we can just not give her the tip at the end, but part of me wonders if it would “ruin” the day knowing she would be wanting an extra crazy amount at the end? Thanks everyone for your input and that I am not being unreasonable here.

Mind sharing more info about what the tour includes, what it's going to cost, and what tip percentage she's asking for?
Just curious as almost none of the one-and-done glowing reviews include the price. It can be nice for others using the forum for their own trips to have some idea of what sort of investment they're looking at for a private tour. :O)

If the "tip" which isn't really a tip, wasn't mentioned at the beginning, the guide is essentially changing the price, and IMO, you should get your deposit back. If you don't get it back, I would have no qualms about publishing the name and contacting RS for correction of the guidebook.

So looking at the current book for Rome, RS does NOT mention this guide. I found them mentioned on the forum, but most of the reviews were 6plus years ago except a random one from this year. I missed that in all my planning. We were supposed to take a full day trip with car transfers from Napoli central for €840. 3hrs at P and 2hrs at H. With a lunch break (tour from 9:30am to 5pm. Was so excited to go and the person was emailing back no problem. We sent them a deposit of €200 which I thought was fine given the price.

It just feels like a huge red flag the asking for so much extra as an “optional” tip, and seeing that RS no longer mentions them!!!! So we can cancel and lose the deposit or change it so that we just meet them at P and get a tour there.

Thanks for the advice!

I wouldn't necessarily consider this guide not being mentioned in a RS guidebook as a red flag. Just as there are many very good hotels and restaurants that don't make the books, the same can be true with guides. The problem as I see it is the written expectation of a sizable tip not being communicated at the time you had to make the downpayment. That pushes the 'optional' boundary.

But assuming you saw a lot of positive reviews about her services, you could just take the tour as planned but tip whatever you feel you're able to or not at its conclusion, thank her nicely, and don't let it ruin your day.

If they're bold enough to say a tip is expected then I'd be bold right back and reply that their will be no tip. I'd be curious of the reaction.

Not Rome, but we were on a group tour with two others in Naples and at the end, the others (Americans) tried to tip, and the guide refused. He said no tip should be expected by any guide in Italy. He was not a private guide.

We have private tour guides on pretty well every trip we do.

I book them directly, no online or other agency involved, and the price is negotiated according to our plans for the day.

I have never, ever tipped, except once in the US, the only tour we did there. The whole point of negotiating a price is that that is what you pay.

If we find the guides very compatible, which is generally the case, we often invite them to join us for lunch and we would pay. Sometimes they choose to join us, sometimes they do not.

I wouldn't lose your deposit, just enjoy your tour, pay the agreed amount and that is that.

If it is 840 Euro, that is an awful lot of money. Is it for a large group? We haven't had a full day guide since we were last in Scotland and England, but we were only paying between 300 and 400 GBP for four adults a year ago.

Not wrong. Private guides are not in my wheelhouse but contractual disputes are.

You paid a deposit against the cost of a service you contracted for. There was a price and service you agreed on. An email telling you that tips are "expected" is not part of the contract. Tipping is discretionary. In some cases and places, the discretion is lower on the sliding discretion scale because workers are not fairly compensated. A private guide in Italy, who sets their own prices, likely has control over their compensation.

What is the cancellation policy? Can you cancel and receive your deposit back?

If there are unfavourable cancellation terms, I cannot imagine that you will get your deposit back if you cancel even if you threaten to expose this quasi-extortionate behaviour. I don't suggest that kind of tit for tat.

On a practical note, if you don't provide the "tip" at the beginning of the day, will that impact the experience you are provided? Maybe.

If you choose not to cancel, I would ignore the email, be jolly and sunny and amenable if it is brought up at the beginning of the day and enjoy the day. Tip if you think it is deserved because someone went above and beyond. Then post on this Forum and Trip Reports exactly how things went and your opinion of the service. I'm not sure why you wouldn’t name them now so that others can be forewarned.

So this is part of the email about the tipping sent after we gave her our deposit and after the cancellation period. It is true that they said it was optional, but I missed that part when I first read it because I was so taken aback by it all…

“As recap: the balance for the tour/drive + the Herculaneum tickets is 715 Euro that due in Euro cash directly to me on the spot when we meet.
FYI: in my Province tipping private guide services and driver services is customary and welcome as sign of appreciation. Here standard gratuities run generally at the moment between 15% and 25% for this kind of services. Anyway feel free to do as you prefer. For all the tips for guide services and driver services you will pay all to me and I will take care of driver.”

Conclusion:

We had an amazing private tour of the Colosseum today (Carla Zaia is a true gem!) and realized that three hours was really our max for enjoying our time before feeling overwhelmed with too much information. I reached out to the person asking if we could update our plans to just do a half day tour of Pompeii and asked what the transportation cost would be separately as we may just meet them on location instead (save some money). The guide quoted a price that was just €100 less than the full day, so we said thank you for her time and that we will just cancel.

I feel it isn’t right of me to give the name since we didn’t do the tour and I am not out to hurt someone’s livelihood. I am just glad we didn’t spend our money on this…we would rather lose the deposit than spend a crazy amount and hate our last day.

Lesson learned from all this is that booking a day long tour is best done with a company that offers refunds closer to the trip. Private guides are great, but best to meet them at the location vs including transportation. Know your cancellation rights and AVOID companies that do not offer refunds or ones too far away from your trip. Life happens and you need flexibility. Also be wary of a private guide that states a price, but then will give you a deal. Just tell me the one price!

Thanks everyone for your help and emotional support!!!!! What an amazing community of fellow travelers!!!!

I'd like to add some notes about this thread:

• All costs must be defined when you sign a contract. The guide want a tip after the tour? Must be declared before. The guide in this case declared "Anyway feel free to do as you prefer.", that means that the tip is not mandatory. Does she expect it? Not your problem.
• Around 900€ for a full day trip including tickets, guide and private car with driver is not a so high cost. Of course is even a fair salary for both the guide and the driver, so they shouldn't claim for an higher cost (tip).
• Even ask a deposit is normal and the 20/30% of deposit is a fair amount.
• In Italy (and in European Union in general) there is the right to rescind from a contract signed online. In Italian is called "Diritto di recesso". Here you can find some more official details about it: https://www.mimit.gov.it/en/media-tools/documents/right-of-withdrawal-frequently-asked-questions-faq . To summarize, the customer can always withdraw for any reason within 14 days before the beginning of the service.
• For travels usually the customer has the right to rescind if the final price (for any reason) rise of more than the 10% and the deposit MUST be refund. Can a 25% of tip considered a rise of the final cost? Can be discussed: in my opinion yes.

Thanks for the additional info which sheds a bit more light on the tipping piece. The line, "Anyway feel free to do as you prefer." does indicate that a tip of a certain size (or tip at all) isn't mandatory. As Ricky said, if she had a different expectation then that wouldn't have been your problem.

Very good to hear that you had a terrific tour of the Colosseum (including Palatine and Forum, I hope?) and hope you are enjoying more of fascinating Rome! :O)