Good morning -
We hired a private driver to take us from Rome to Pompeii (with tour guide) and then onto our hotel in Sorrento. He was suggested through Rick Steves. He want us to pay in cash. Is this normal? I don't really like the idea of taking that much money with me.
Thank you
Sounds like something from The Godfather. Unmarked bills, too.
We paid our drivers in cash, Naples train station to our Sorrento hotel with a stop in Herculaneum, which added up to a lot of Euros, and then back Sorrento to our Naples hotel.
If we have a large amount of cash when traveling, I keep some in my wallet and the rest under my jacket in a neck pouch. We brought enough with us.
If you need to withdraw money, or additional money, to pay your driver, ask him/her if they can make a stop at a bank ATM. Cash for this service is very common.
Our drivers were the father and son from the Monettti family, well-known to Rick Steves Europe.
Big Mike's imagination gets a little wild but it keeps him occupied and out of jail.
Both yours and Bet's driver want cash because they are tax cheaters. You can trust such people or not, your choice. Meanwhile, one sixth of my income is used to "plug the holes" such people make in the National Budget.
Ask to pay by credit card and see what happens, he could even accept not to loose the money. But please at least do not tip a blatant tax cheater!
We hired a private driver to take us from Rome to Pompeii (with tour guide)
What do you mean (with tour guide)? Do you mean the driver is your tour guide or are you taking a tour guide with you on the drive?
He was suggested through Rick Steves.
What is the private driver's name suggested by RS?
He wants us to pay in cash. Is this normal? I don't really like the idea of taking that much money with me.
Email the RS office if this is their recommendation. Ask them if this is correct on paying cash?
Dario said "they are tax cheaters".
How do you know? Maybe they want to avoid credit card fees and they DO report cash income on their tax returns. You have no way of knowing one way or the other.
I'd happily pay the cash. It won't be until after the service has been rendered, so you are not getting ripped off. Wait until a day or so before to access the cash from an ATM.
Both yours and Bet's driver want cash because they are tax cheaters.
Odds are in a continent with 24 to 27% VAT, yes they are. Ask for a receipt and see if they get nervous. But it's the "system"
How do you know?
I know my country better than you.
Since a self-employed driver is not an end consumer, VAT (10% in Italy for such services) is not the reason they cheat on their taxes.
Welcome to Italy, you pay less income tax when you're paid in cash. We had gotten a quote from one RS recommended guide in that region and the cost was going to be about 800 Euros cash only.
We were also offered an 8% discount if we paid in cash at a hotel in Rome. we were given a receipt, but it wasn't official looking.
I know my country better than you.
Same here in the US. Anytime payment is requested in cash by a business as opposed to a customer choice, there is a high probability it is not reported on the books entirely or partially.
Maybe they want to avoid credit card fees
That isn't all they want to avoid!!! While perhaps it is a rare possibility there is a cash only business out there in 2023, most of the time it is to avoid the tax man. Credit card fees are a cost of doing business just like utilities, permits, etc.
you pay less income tax when you're paid in cash
no, you pay less income tax when you can hide some revenues and only cash can be hidden these days. Welcome to the western world since Cicero was a lawyer.
about 800 Euros cash only
"Cash only" is illegal in Italy, by law they must accept plastic anytime the bill is above € 60. Do such drivers play by the rules when it's time to test their tyres and brakes? Nobody knows, good luck.
we were given a receipt, but it wasn't official looking.
There isn't a standard "official looking" for receipts, the moment they give one with their vat number on, you can rest assured they are not cheating. The risk of handing around fake receipts is too big, especially for an hotel. Offering an 8% discount is just a way to save on credit card fees.
everyone who prefers cash is a (tax) cheater?
In Italy the answer is 100 times yes.
Anybody who wants to be paid cash is because they want to dodge taxes. Period. The 1% or so credit card commission is peanuts compared to the tax savings.
Not only they are trying to avoid to report income taxes, but especially they want to avoid to report the VAT (Value Added Tax) which is 22% in Italy (except for hotels and restaurants services, which is 10%).
So If a driver's service costs 200 euro, if invoiced regularly, I pay the 200 euro to the driver, and the driver has to give 36 euro to the government at the end of the quarter. (€164 net price + 22% (€36)= €200).
VAT on sale is a debt that a merchant has with the government. VAT on purchases is a credit that merchant has with the government. Therefore it is to the interest of a merchant to maximize VAT on purchases, his credits to the government, (sometimes by even making up fake purchases and invoices), and to minimize invoiced sales (by taking payments in cash without invoice/receipt, aka 'ricevuta fiscale' or by giving you an unofficial receipt on a piece of worthless paper).
If he takes the €200 in cash without an official invoice/receipt, he will not report that sale in his VAT book, and he won't have to pay the €36 (=22%) to the government.
But the 22% VAT savings is not his only extra gain. By understating his sales on the books, he can also understate his revenue and income on the income tax return.
....But please at least do not tip a blatant tax cheater!...... The problem is as a tourist it is not my job to enforce the tax collection system in any country. If they want cash --- that is fine. That is the terms of the contact. I am not here to second guess why they want cash. As long as it is not illegal for me to pay in cash, I will comply with the request. There may be other reasons why cash is requested. BUT -- do request in return a receipt.
Again: vat for private drivers is 10%, not 22.
The problem is as a tourist it is not my job to enforce the tax collection system in any country
Even if, there is no reason to reward a dishonest self-employed worker in a country where you shouldn't tip the honest employees, either.
I am running into this issue too. We booked a food tour and figured we'd give a credit card deposit, but the guide said to pay in cash at the time of the tour. This made me pretty nervous as we've never been asked for cash before. Reading the responses, now I feel that I don't want to give my business to this person. he has a nice website, and I found him here on this forum as recommended by another traveler.... Not sure what to do now... Should we go or find something else? I worry that he might be a bit "fly by night" if it's a cash only. That said, we haven't given him any money yet and certainly can easily back out any time...
Not sure what to do now
tell this guy you do not use cash and see what happens.
he might be a bit "fly by night"
I bet he can be trusted from your point of view, and that he will provide the type of tour advertised on his site. Tax cheaters scam their neighbours, not their customers.
The problem I have with this discussion is the presumption that a request for cash means "tax cheat." What happened to the idea of innocent until proven guilty? Granted it is not a court of law. I know our resident Italian wants everyone to believe that a cash request is an automatic admission of dishonest intent. Without evidence, I am not prepared to make that assumption. Seems to me, it is your choice. If it is unacceptable for you to pay in cash, then say so and look for another option.
From a small merchant's view point there are some very good reasons to avoid using credit cards. Credit card fraud is not a nickle, dime business. Using a credit card is not a guaranteed transaction. Cash is.
If you do pay cash, pay only at the end of the event be it a tour, drive, etc..
End the debate about tax cheats or I'll lock the thread. Stick to the OP's question please.
There isn't a standard "official looking" for receipts, the moment
they give one with their vat number on, you can rest assured they are
not cheating. The risk of handing around fake receipts is too big,
especially for an hotel. Offering an 8% discount is just a way to save
on credit card fees.
Dario, I still have the receipt, the only thing that could be a VAT number is a line that says PIVA followed by an 11 digit number. Does PIVA have something to do with VAT?
He want us to pay in cash. Is this normal?
We booked 4 tours our last trip. 3 via Shared and Mondo tours which is an endorsed Rick Steves company and all 3 were cash only when we met the guide. The guides meet us on site and wouldn't be carrying a debit machine. First for each of the tour was €40, €130, and €90. When we booked each tour, it was held by a credit card number though. No receipts given, but I also didn't ask and didn't care.
The only tour we were required to pay by cc in advance was Through Eternity Tours in Rome. That one was €80.
Two different methods but I wouldn't hesitate to recommend either company.
We paid the two Mondo Shared Tours online ahead of the tour.
We hired our Herculaneum guide, an official guide at the gate and paid her cash.
Our Naples guide, we hired through our hotel, we paid cash.
We paid our drivers in cash. I figured they had been ripped off enough times by riders with bad credit cards or who dispute the charges, that they ask for cash. I have no problem paying.
As for a tour guide, I'd much rather pay in cash the day of the tour than use a card ahead of time and not have the guide show. Keep your guide; the company advertises online, communicates online, can be tracked. Don't be so suspicious.
But don't tip! Anyone who hints at a tip is squeezing the client for cash and probably not above board.
@Allan
P. IVA is short for Partita IVA
IVA is the acronym for “Imposta Valore Aggiunto” or Value Added Tax in English.
The Partita IVA number is the VAT Identification Number, that is assigned to all businesses by the tax authorities in Europe. You can have more information in the Wikipedia article below. An official invoice, or a receipt issued by a sealed authorized cash register, should have that number printed in it, if a merchant gives you a hand written receipt on a napkin, that is a fake receipt/invoice. Official receipts and invoices are registered with the authorities (cash registers are also monitored) and all of them must be accounted for. Issuing an official invoice or receipt for a sale is required by law. Paying with cash is allowed within certain limits but the merchant cannot refuse to issue an official receipt or invoice. Also a merchant cannot refuse to accept an electronic payment for amounts over €60.
VAT is a powerful tax revenue mechanism that collects a lot of money for governments but requires close monitoring because of the high potential for tax evasion.
Dear webmaster,
since you deleted my message it seems you think that Rick Steves customers should not know that "Cash only" is forbidden by law in Italy.
The moment a company says "We only accept cash" and the bill is over Euro 60 they are infringing the law and they have just proven themselves guilty.
It seems some of the companies you promote on your books do it; whether you know it or not the truth is that you are recommending people who makes money breaking the rules.
Sticking to the OP's question: most probably a guide who takes only cash will offer a flawless service to you and you have nothing to worry about. He's scamming first his honest competitors, than he is scamming me. Not you.
I'd be more worried about getting on a car owned and driven by some guy who blatantly does not respect the rules, but we all decide what risks we are ready to take when we travel in foreign countries.
a VAT number is a line that says PIVA followed by an 11 digit number. Does PIVA have something to do with VAT?
Yes Alan the Italian translation of VAT is IVA,and the vat number is made of 11 digits. "Partita" is an old fashioned way to say "Code" or "Number".
It probably comes from Amatino Manucci, a merchant from Florence who lived in Dante's times who wrote first about a "Double Entry accounting system". May he burn in hell while filing demons' taxes.
if a merchant gives you a hand written receipt on a napkin, that is a fake receipt/invoice.
No, all paper invoices are copies of a digital version these days. It doesn't matter if it's written on an napkin or a towel. What makes an invoice "real" is the digital original and the info written on the paper copy, not the mean used to write those info.
I think You are misunderstanding the obligation to have a cash register for retail stores with the way paper copies of invoices must be issued.
Dario said "they are tax cheaters".
How do you know? Maybe they want to avoid credit card fees and they DO report cash income on their tax returns. You have no way of knowing one way or the other.
In this case simply ask for an invoice, telling him that you need it for your tax declaration. In that way you will discover that the drivers and the guides have a lot of complains to send you the invoice. Because if you pay cash and they issue an invoice they cannot avoid taxes. If you don't receive the invoice your are sure they are tax cheaters and can be reported.
If we have a large amount of cash when traveling, I keep some in my wallet and the rest under my jacket in a neck pouch. We brought enough with us.
That is a good point: why I should risk to travel with my wallet full of hundred of Euros? A guide or a driver can be robbed like any other tourist. So, why risk to spend a full day in the streets of a touristy city like Rome or Naples or Florence (full of thieves) and risk to lose all my cash? Because is not only the 2% of credit card commission that I gain to receive only cash.
everyone who prefers cash is a (tax) cheater
Not 100%. Sometimes there are last minutes booking, so you prefer to be paid at the moment than through an online system (often takes some working day to be sure about the payment). So if you book in the morning a tour for the same day often a guide/driver/travel agency hasn't the time to give you the chance to pay on-line.
Different is that at the moment a guide/driver should accept a card for payment on the spot.
I remember: a person/activity cannot refuse to be paid by credit/debit card. Any value! If a driver/guide doesn't want to be paid by credit card can be fined by police. If you know Italian you can read this: https://www.sostariffe.it/news/pos-obbligatorio-i-limiti-per-i-pagamenti-con-carte-di-gennaio-2023-358008/
Interesting that the fine is 30€ + 4%. The guide asked 800€ cash only risk to pay 62€ of fine: much less that the 15%+24% of tax she pays if she declares the income.
We booked our two local car trips from Sorrento (8 hrs Amalfi Coast no separate guide, Sorrento to Naples Train Station) through our hotel concierge. (Ambasciatori Grande). The charges appeared on our final hotel bill, as to their land-travel agency partner. We tipped in cash. The first driver told us that we could not request "him" for another ride because his employer rotates the drivers.
