Please Review Our Trip... I need to cut something!

Since eliminating France on this trip is NOT possible now, here's what I would do with the same "values" and desired sites:

1. Book a discount airline flight from Paris to Venice on the day of your arrival in Paris OR after a few nights in Paris.

2. 3 nights Venice

3. Train to Milano: 1 night Milan (book Last Supper ticket in advance)

4. Train to Cinque Terre; Cinque Terra 3 nights

5. Train to Florence: Florence 3 nights

6. Bus to Siena; Siena 2 or 3 nights (day trip to San Gimignano?)

7. Bus from Siena to Roma; Roma 3 or 4 nights

8. Fly home from Roma

If you elect to spend 3 nights in France, perhaps reduce Venice and Cinque Terre by a night, and skip the 1 night in Milan (which helps to break up the long train ride from Venice to Cinque Terre).

Just some ideas.

Hi, I've travelled a lot and going back to Italy in 10 days, so I've been researching everything. First, depending on which airlines you booked, you could change your itenerary. Even with the $250 change fee, you may end up paying a lot less than $500 if you flight you want is cheaper than Paris. Two days ago, I changed 4 tickets to come back from Rome instead of Venice, it cost $565 for everyone. So it might be worth it for you. Second, if you do go to Paris, stay at least another night. Versaille is a day trip from Paris so don't stay overnight. If you're into art, I recommend taking the trai to Gevarny, the home of Van Gogh, as you'll always remember its beauty. The Louvre takes a whole day by itself. They have a free Tuesday each month, so check it out, even though it's not expensive. Flight from Paris to Venice is $140 on 7/14 on EasyJet, much faster than train. Discount airlines in Europe are very cheap http://wikitravel.org/en/Discount_airlines_in_Europe

You must look at a map of the regions you're going to in Italy. You're going south to Florence, then noth west to Cinca Tere, then south to Siena, then north to Venice, then south to Rome. You're wasting time. Two days in Venice is plenty, it's super small and you can see it in one day. From there, go to Portofino, Cinca Terra, Florence, Sienna and Rome. A great place to go is Assis if you're Christian, it's beautiful. I have a lot of suggestions and a couple of must have lists. You're welcome to e-mail you. I must go now but have a lot of suggestions for Rome too. Definitley buy Rick Steves book on Rome and follow it, you'll see everything. It'll be great fun...

Peter, its always an experience to see how the many experienced travelers on this site will set up your itinerary. The replies can really vary. Its a bit rushed but you can do it. Here are my thoughts.

10- Fly into Paris. Stay 3 nights (10,11,12). Include one day trip to Versailles.

13- Fly budget airline from Paris to Venice in the AM. Stay two nights (13 & 14). You can see most of Venice in two days. Longer is better but...

15-Early morning train to Florence. Trip will take just under 3.0hrs. Stay 3 nights (15,16,17)
18-Early morning train to the Cinque Terre (3hrs). Stay 2 nights (18,19).

20-Morning train from La Spezia Centrale to Siena. Stay 2 nights (20,21). There is very good local bus service to and from San G from Siena.

22-Morning bus or train from Siena to Rome (3hrs). Stay 4 nights (22,23,24,25).

Your trip itinerary is OK. Just prepare a spreadsheet that lists everything and especially where you will be staying each night. If you want an example, PM me with your email address and I'll send you one. Once you get things down on paper it will not look bad at all - it will look organized.

One big hint: There is no such thing as a trip of a lifetime. Enjoy this one a go back in a few years. We are seniors and have travelled quite a bit. We continually enjoy all of our trips.

Drop San Gimignano. Do Paris to Venice, then CT, then Florence, then Siena, then Rome. It puts your itinerary in a better order, reducing travel time between cities. Consider a day trip from Rome to Orvieto once you're in Rome, if you find you want more hilltop town experience. Do a 1/2 day trip to Ostia Antica while in Rome. It's like Pompeii without the crowds.

Most importantly: Don't chase other people's experiences. In other words, don't feel you have to go somewhere just because someone else had an amazing experience there. If you tried to go to every such place in Italy, you'd spend your entire life there. What you want to do is play the odds. Pick a few of the most popular places and go there - There's a reason they're popular. (Once you decide on those places, do your research to make your time there more enjoyable. Tips like avoiding certain places during certain times of the day to avoid the biggest crowds.)

Hi Peter,

First I think you have a great start to your itinerary. Also, I know you were concerned with how to get from Point A to B, but all the places you have listed are very easy by train. We were just in Italy in May and would buy our train tickets the day before (or day of) and it was super easy. Here are some of my thoughts:

First, don't cut out Venice. Next to Cinque Terre, Venice was one of my favorite places. And it is so romantic. It's very easy to get to Venice by train. It's approx 2hours (from what I remember) from Florence.

I would do Sienna & San Gimingano as a day trip while you stay in Florence. Use Florence as your home base, stay 4 nights there and 1 day just do a day trip to Sienna & San Gimignano. We did this and it was perfect for timing. The bus from Florence is very easy to get to both places and we felt we had plenty of time to stroll in each place. Plus the bus ride was kinda fun to see the hills of tuscany (it was approx. 1 hour to Sienna and then like 20-30min between Sienna and San Gimignano).

In Cinque Terre make sure to at least spend 2 nights. We stayed 3 nights and I wished we had more time because it was so beautiful, peaceful, and relaxing.

You might be able to do Rome in just 3 nights (vs. 4) depending what you want to see. You could have 1 day for the Colosseum, Palatine, & The Forum. Day 2 go to the Vatican. And Day 3 explore Rome (walk by the Spanish steps, Trevi Fountain, The Pantheon, Piazza Navona & Camp de Fiori).

In regards to your order here is what I would suggest:

• Paris
• Cinque Terre
• Venice (this way you'll have a shorter train to Rome)
• Florence (including Sienna, & San Gimignano)
• Rome

Let me know if you need recommended places to stay or anything!

Peter, I concur with Larry's assesment. Paris is doable in the amount of time he factors and still make the trip to Versailles. The trip to Versailles, if you start early, will not even take the entire day. We were there at opening, took a leisurely tour, had a picnic lunch in one of the gardens and still made it back to Paris early afternoon. Recommend that you make a list of everything you want to see in Paris and prioritize it and try to work your itinerary in an orderly fashion so as to minimize travel time between sites. Also, spend the money and stay in a central location again to maximize touring time.
We arrived early morning Venice and were able to hit all the highlights by staying 2 nights.
The best thing I can recommend is get travel books, read them over, and make lists of what you really want to see. Then prioritize them and figure out what you can cut out if the need arises. Planning is the best way to take control of your trip and not feel overwhelmed about what you are trying to do. I know a lot of people go without a plan, but I have never found that to work very well for myself. Remember to schedule time to just sit at a cafe with a glass of wine and watch the world go by. It will keep you refreshed and not dreading that next museum or church on your "must see" list. Have a wonderful trip and remember that you will probably have the chance to go back again.

I just returned from Italy a few weeks ago. Though Siena was very nice, and we wish we had more time there, we did see a number of bus tours that do BOTH Siena & San Gimignano in a day from Florence. That could save you a day. You might be able to shave a day off Rome also.

My experience is that no matter how much time you have, it's never enough.

Expanding on Antuany's comments on bus day trips, Grayline has a very nice day trip from Florence to both San G. and Siena. Grayline in Florence is operated by CAF Tours. My wife and I have been on it. It costs 52Euro each but it includes a tour of Siena plus entry to the Basilica there. You only get an hour in San G. (wish we had more) but you get 4+hours in Siena. I can provide more information and links if you wish.

Having been to San Gim back in October, one hour would not have been enough for us. We loved it. As it was, we spent about 2.5 hours and want to go back again. Barely skimmed the surface of this gem of a town. Definitely a nice place to hang out with that glass of wine I mentioned earlier.

One other alternative, if you want to throw some money at it, would be to hire a private driver as we did. We left Florence about 0900, went to San Gim for those couple of hours, went to a wonderful little medieval town for lunch (Monteriggioni) and then to Siena for a few hours.

Hi Pete and Robin,
You've gotten some great advice! I like Michael's suggestion. To simplify it even more I'd chose either Siena or Florence to stay in for less moving around and then day trip to the other city--for example, if you stay in Florence take the bus to spend a day in Siena OR (my preference) stay in Siena and take a bus for the day to Florence.

We just got back from Italy. We did San Giminano in one morning, before the crowds of tourists got there. Venice was touristy but it was such a great experience riding the vaporetos on the grand canal and hanging out at St marks square at midnight or 6AM. Being from a small town I too was very stressed over getting around. I discovered the train stations and bus depots are very easy to navigate in every city. List your cities or sites in each city by priority on what is a must see. You might get to each city but you might not be able to see all you plan on. In some cities it gets down to a few sites with quality time spent there or quanity, squeezing in a glimpse of everything. Whatever you do you will love absorbing it all in!

I, too, would cut San G. Sleep in Florence and take the bus to Siena for a daytrip. I would try and spend at least 3 nights in the C.T. It is tempting to try and cram as much as you can into your schedule but you will get home and feel like you saw lots but on the other hand saw nothing. Slow down and like Rick says assume you will return! Have a great trip!

I agree that you can do Venice in a day. We did it in a day and even went to Murano and Burano and then we didn't have anything to do the next day.

Get Rick Steve's 2009 guidebook and read it well before you leave. It will save you TONS of time. Make sure that you make reservations ahead of time as he suggests for the museums in Florence. His advise on how to skip lines in Venice and Rome was so valuable.

Some people may disagree, but I think that 2 full days in Rome are only needed. In 2 days, we did the Colesseum, Roman Forum, Capitol Hill, Trevi Ftn, Spanish Steps, Borghese Gallery, Vatican and St Peters Cathedral, Rick's recommended night walk and still, had half of a day to spair. We eve waited for an hour and a half at St Peters to see the Pope. However, we move fast and we took Rick's advise on everything. His advise to go to the Vatican Museum on a Wed AM at 10 was great - no lines.

The varied responses really show how different people can be when it comes to traveling. I can't IMAGINE doing Venice or Rome in just a couple of days each, but clearly other people have done that. I could do a week in each over and over and never run out of new things to do and see.

Hi Peter,
First, have you called your airline and asked about changing your tickets and what that might cost? That would free up a considerable amount of time and would make things less rushed in Italy. Keep in mind the old travel rule of thumb that everytime you change locations you lose half a day. Also consider that it will be fairly hot in July and that will impact how much effective touring time you'll have each day. You can maximize your time by prebooking many of your museums to avoid waiting in line and time them for the heat of the day. You can also book timed admission or a guided tour of the Vatican directly through their website at a very reasonable price. Our guide through the Vatican was VERY personable and had a Phd in Art History. The tip about getting into the museums at 10 on Wednesdays without a line ONLY works if the Pope is holding the Wednesday morning audience.We did San G as part of a winery/tour from Caseta Viaggio out of Siena, which was recommended in the Rick Steves book--- it was such a great trip we also booked the Chianti tour with him as well. San G was charming, but leans toward the touristy side for my own taste. The Vernaccia wine is not to be missed!Again, this is just me, but I wouldn't do Siena as just a day trip unless there was no other option. It's so lovely at night. I also second the recommendation to see Orvieto as a day trip from Rome. We took an early train from Termini spent the day wandering, had a late airconditioned lunch with some good Orvieto wine then toured the cool darkend church, saw the Signorelli frescos, went into the Duomo museum next store then took the little bus down to the funiculare down to the train and back to Rome. Invest in some good guidebooks-- the Rick Steves Florence and Tuscany, the Venice Guide and the Rome guide are what we use but there are many quality guide books.

In don't know that people think they've "done" Rome or Venice in two days, but rather think that they've seen some highlights given a limited amount of travel time. I think a huge mistake posters to this forum make is a sort of flippant assumption that those posting questions will invariably be going back to Italy again. Not everyone has the same luxuries of time and money to make more trips possible. Some people have scrimped and saved for the one big trip and want to cram in as much as possible. It's not my travel style but I certainly can empathize with them.

"I think a huge mistake posters to this forum make is a sort of flippant assumption that those posting questions will invariably be going back to Italy again. Not everyone has the same luxuries of time and money to make more trips possible. Some people have scrimped and saved for the one big trip and want to cram in as much as possible. It's not my travel style but I certainly can empathize with them." - maggie

Right on, maggie. Everyone says, "Assume you will go back". Well, I'm sorry, I can either "assume I will be back" or I can be realistic. If I go back, it likely won't be until I'm nearly 50 (I'm 29 now).

My 18 day Europe trip will be my honeymoon, after which come children and all that good stuff. I don't see us hauling the kiddos across the Atlantic anytime soon. As a child, I went on a vacation every summer, but they were always "safe" vacations. Nothing adventurous. The Caribbean again? Disney World again? Cancun? Hawaii?

Now that I'm older though, I can see why my parents did that. It's just easier, for one thing, and there isn't much for children in Rome or Florence (according to Rick Steves and many other sources). I'm an art and history buff, so travelling in Italy with kids would be like having a gigantic ball and chain around my leg while I tried desperately to fight and claw my way into the Uffizi.

For better or worse, I feel like this is my best chance to see these things until I'm much older. So am I cramming a bit? Maybe so, but we'll see how it goes.

I would cut CT before Venice. CT is a nice place to take a break but Venice is a unique place.

It might be best to take a night train to Venice then work down through Florence toward Rome.

San Gimignano and Siena are good choices for hill towns although there are many to see.

Thanks for all the great itineraries, tips, and websites!

• Changing our flight would cost 2 * $260... that's a bit too much but I appreciate the advice to consider changing it.

• Discount flight from Paris to Venice: The prices are very attractive and we'll probably use EasyJet.
  This is 1/2 the cost of the train and quicker.
  RyanAir was so cheap it looked "too good to be true" plus they have horrible reviews.

• We now have the travel bug again (dormant since college) and really do hope to return to Italy in two years.

Pete

Peter -

Plan on going back. I guarantee you, this is more likely to happen. Focus on a section of Italy you really want to see, such as Tuscany and Venice, then take a train to Rome.

And plan on seeing what you missed on the next trip.

Peter
We just did pretty much what you did
We flew into paris ....
took easy jet from paris to venice.
(BIG CATCH - only 2 check in bags)
and 2 small cabin bags - check limitations on size
If this is ur first trip, Please go to venice...its very very different and special though very touristy
Rail
From venice went to Cinque terre through Milan (only 1 connection)
From Cinque terre we went to Rome via florence.
or you could go directly too from Monterosso.
Please use
http://www.bahn.de/international/view/en/index.shtml
to plan the rails and the no of connections etc.
Its very easy