Please Help Visa Question

Probably the Italian Embassy or Consulate nearest you would have the answer. You will need to read every single word on the visa to make sense of it.

My first question would be if she is granted 123 days, what date does that start. Can't add 123 to anything until we know what to add it to.

If the two dates don't match, call the people that can help - we're just a rag tag bunch of fellow travellers here and don't carry the authority of law.

I think you, or to be exact your daughter, might have a problem. If your daughter has a visa for 123 days, she will not be allowed to stay for 124 days and doing so might result in a fine and/or ban from returning for a couple of years. That the visa expires in january is something I interpret as the visa allows her to stay 123 days, and those days have to be used before 2020-01-01.

BUT, this is something that you really need an official answer to and not guesses from some random persons on an internet forum, because we might be completely wrong.

I doubt you have a problem. Officials looking at her visa, if anyone does at all, will see Jan 1. (Once you are in-country, seldom are visas consulted.)

If you want legal assurance, best to contact the Italian consulate or an expert in Italian immigration.

Your thinking is correct. You don't have a problem at all. She can legally stay in Italy until January 1. It is January 2 and after that she could face fines/punishments when exiting Italy or the Schengen area, depending on the immigration officer.

Thank you for the responses. She did spend some time in London as part of her schooling so I am also thinking that since London is not part of the Schengen region that will give her a few extra days. I am not sure what got stamped exactly. We were thinking of visiting Switzerland while in Italy, would you suggest staying in Italy. Will leaving the country raise more flags or is it all the same?

Switzerland and Italy are both in the Schengen area with no border checks, so I doubt anyone will care (or even notice) if you spend some days in Switzerland.

I am confused, this is an Italian student visa correct? If so, it does not matter if she left the Schengen area to go to another non-Schengen zone area during the duration of the visa. The expiration date on the visa is the expiration date.

What I am trying to say Jackie is since she left the Schengen are those days she spent in London would not count toward the 123. I might not be correct, but I did read that.

You have to count the day she arrived and the day she leaves in the 123 days manually on a calendar.

I think there is a lot of speculation up thread. I would assume that there is no problem BUT I would contact the school for their interpretation since they will have dealt with question many times before. Or contact the office that issued the visa. From our experience closed to 20 years ago when our son studied in Madrid for a semester under a student visa issue by the Spanish government. The visa covered the time he was in Spanish as a student. It expired when the semester was over and then he with friends traveled for another month of so through out Europe as a regular tourist under the Schengen visa wavier provisions. He was a US citizen and I assume your daughter is also a US citizen.

Sorry, I have never heard of an Italian visa being extended past the written expiration date bc one left the Schengen area for a few days. It really depends on the immigration officer, how much they care and what they believe the rules are.

Contact.The.Italian.Embassy.

This is a legal question. Contact the embassy.

Thanks, everyone for your comments. I just got off the phone with my Senator's advisor. He talked to another person in the government that specializes in these types of questions and he said we my daughter will be good as long as we leave the country by the expiration date.

Jackie what I meant to say was that the 5 or 6 days she spent in London would not count toward the 123 days she had to use the visa. Her expiration date would still be the same. Because as of now, her 123 days would run out on December 21. But if we count the time she was in London and not the Schengen area, then her 123 days would run out on December 26. Her visa would still end on Jan 1, 2020.

Ready think you are over thinking this. Who is doing the counting for the 123 days?? No one. It expires on the first. That to me is the important date. How is an exit immigration officer going to determine if she was there for a 123 days or a 125 or a 119. You should be fine unless you learn something different directly from the office issuing the visa. That is who you should be answering your questions.

Italian student Visa time limits are not the same as Schengen days in zone allowed to US citizens visiting Europe. They do not calculate the same.

Not having seen this one I can only guess, but the 123 days would normally start the first day in Italy and end after 123 days have elapsed, regardless of where those 123 days are spent. So the expiration would be "123 days from first entry OR until 2020/01/01, whichever occurs first"

It is of course up to you how you handle this, but I would not cross any border requiring the showing of passports and such if you expect to go back into Italy before leaving Europe. Just my opinion.

I appreciate how knowledgeable and skillful politicians are but why would you ask them, who can't possibly be specialists, when the Embassy has the answers.

You say you can't see the visa that has the 123 on it - how do you know that it is a Schengen visa? I would have thought it far more likely that it would be an Italian student visa which is only for her study.

Please take the following in the spirit in which it is meant - to be helpful - I hope that if your daughter is stopped at the airport and her visa really has run out, that she doesn't say something like, "But my father said that his Senator's aide's colleague said it would be fine" because it probably wouldn't hold water.

Far better to say "the Italian Embassy in xxx said that such and so". Here's where they wrote that down.

I hope that everything works out for her and you as a family.

she left the Schengen are those days she spent in London would not count toward the 123. I might not be correct, but I did read that.

Read that where?

Best advice was in the first response--'contact the Italian embassy/consulate'

Presumably you did so to get the visa, so you should have the contact info readily available.

Your daughter obtained a Student Visa at your local Italian Consulate for her semester in Italy. However that is not the entire required procedure. Once in Italy, within 8 days, your daughter (or the school on her behalf) is supposed to obtain an official Permesso di Soggiorno from the local police office - foreigners’ bureau. In your daughter’s case that would be the Ufficio Stranieri of the Questura of Florence, which is located on Via della Fortezza. I think nowadays that process is electronic (40 years ago was manual and did it for my American girlfriend, later wife).
Therefore your daughter should already have such document (Permesso di Soggiorno). The document should state the date the permit expires. If that date is before your intended departure date, she can go to the ufficio stranieri on 17 Via della Fortezza, and request an extension.
There is actually 60 days time to do so after the expiration date.
There is no way that the date on the Permesso di Soggiorno is the same as the last day of her school. I’ve seen many and the expiration date is at least a few weeks after the end of the study courses.
So your first step should be to check your Permesso di Soggiorno. If the school is an American University they usually take care of those bureaucracy steps, so she should go to the school’s office and inquire.
In any case nothing will happen to your daughter if she leaves a week or two after the end of the courses.

I will add to the those who suggested you contact the Italian Embassy.

For regulatory information it is always best to contact the agency that is responsible for the rules.

As nice as it is that someone from your Senator's office addressed your question, that is not the same as talking to the Embassy that issued the visa.

Why would you ask a local politician's assistant? They can hardly be experts on Italian visa legislation. If I had a question on US visa rules, I would not ask an Italian senator's advisor. As others have said, to avoid any possible problems: Ask the nearest Italian embassy/consulate.

I hope you have a nice time in Italy.

You've asked your question here and got many responses. You contacted your Senator's office and got a response. Next contact a Senator from the opposing party and ask them the question. Then, go to an Italian restaurant and ask them. Or a pizza place.

Then, when you have gotten a consensus one way or the other, contact the Italian consulate closest to you and ask your question. You see, only their response is the correct one. Only what they say is what you can rely on. Only their response matters.

But for some reason you seem hesitant to do this.

I'm just curious. What is your daughter's plans at the end your your visit? Is she returning to the states with you? Will it be on or before Jan. 1, 2020? Will she be returning to Italy for more study?

If she is flying home, that's the only time someone will be looking at her passport. I'm trying to think of worst case scenario, which would be they will ask her to leave the country, which is exactly what she'll be doing.

I know you are already gone. I hope you got it worked out so you aren't worried. I can't speak for the Italians, but our grandson is at the University of Tours in France for the first of what may be 3 years. He has a temporary visa and has spent a couple of months trying to finalize it. The French bureaucracy does not see this as a pressing issue and are pretty blase about finishing the process. They shrug their shoulders and tell Will "It's OK, don't worry about it."

In my previous (long) comment I explained that obtaining the visa from the Italian Consulate in your country is only the first step.
Once in Italy one has to apply for a Permesso di Soggiorno (Permit of Stay) at the local police headquarters (Questura) within 8 days from arrival.
The Permit of stay will state the dates you are allowed to stay.
Your local Consulate won’t be able to give additional information. The student visa she received there is not enough!

The steps are explained below on any of the websites below:

https://www.studentsville.it/permessodisoggiorno/
https://spotahome.com/blog/residence-permit-italy-non-eu-student/
https://www.unibo.it/en/teaching/enrolment-transfer-and-final-examination/visa-and-rules-for-residence-in-italy/residence-permit
https://studentlifeflorence.it/resources/FUA_Permit_of_Stay.pdf
https://www.unibocconi.eu/wps/wcm/connect/Bocconi/SitoPubblico_EN/Navigation+Tree/Home/Programs/Current+Students/Services/International+Relations/International+Students/International+Student+Desk/During+Your+Stay/Permit+of+Stay/Permit+of+Stay_Bracco+2012+04+19+04+08

If she is flying home, that's the only time someone will be looking at
her passport. I'm trying to think of worst case scenario, which would
be they will ask her to leave the country, which is exactly what
she'll be doing.

Worst case scenario: She will be fined and banned from returning to the Schengen area for a couple of years.