Please comment on our proposed Northern Italy itinerary, Fall 2014

Hi Eric, Welcome to the forum!

You've listed the regular tourist locations. You might want to also consider Verona for 2-3 days as a beginning point instead of Lake Como. It was our first Italian town, and we loved the old portion of town, returning there another year. It's lovely with the arena, two wonderful piazzas, Romeo & Juliet, pink marble/granite walkways, and they have the Verona Card. Lake Garda is nearby, and it's a quick 1 hour train ride to Venice as your next stop.

I'd recommend heading to your first location instead of staying in Milan the first night. Verona's 1.5 hours from Milan by train.

I agree, skip the first night in Milan! Add that extra night back to Milan at the end so you will have some time to see some of Milan's worthwhile sights. 2 nights in Lago di Como is good. If you are getting a car for Tuscany, stay in a centrally located agritourismo the entire time, as you can easily reach anyplace in Tuscany within 2 hours.

agree with going right to your first destination. We went from Milan Airport directly to Varenna and it was not a hardship or more difficult, since you are supposed to stay awake that whole far rival day anyway.

Good advice. I agree, go straight to your first destination by train, leave a full day (2nights) for Milano at the end.

Some hill towns to consider: Todi, Cortona, Spello, Assisi, Montepulciano, Montalcino, Arezzo.

One photo shot not to miss is the close view of the facade of Orvieto's cathedral from the upper floors of the museum across the street. Another is the approach to Orvieto on its rocky base. In Venice, take the elevator to the top of the bell tower in Piazza San Marco. Florence (not on your list): Piazzale Michelangelo, especially if you have a clear sunset. If you climb the Mangia Tower in Siena (not for the faint of heart), there are great views of the Campo. You'll find plenty of other shots as well.

I use booking.com for most hotel research. In Milano, many people here like Hotel Garda or Hotel Berna, a couple of blocks from the train station.

In my opinion you are trying to do too much... But great restraint on not also trying to "do" Rome and the south too! Fewer changes of location and a mix of rural and town/city will give you, IMHO, a better experience.

-Arrive Milan 1pm 25Sep - Go directly to Venice. You will be there for an evening stroll and dinner. Great place to ease into Europe.

• Venice - 4 nights with day trip to Verona if you don;t find enough to your liking in Venice. Don't miss Burano & Torcello! Some will say it is too many nights in Venice, but it is endlessly fascinating, lovely especially at night and in early AM, and reasonable to use for a day trip to the often-touted Verona. (I liked Padova better.) Get a Vaporetto Pass form Hello Venezia. Otherwise Venice Museum Passes are at best a breakeven.

• Florence - 3 nights. You will need to plan your two full days carefully as Firenze has so much to offer! If you really must see Siena, day trip there by bus. IMHO, Siena is skippable. It can be a good base for seeing other hill towns, but I found Siena a bit boring on its own as compared to the bounty of Firenze and the charm of smaller hill towns.

• Agriturismo in southern Tuscany - 3 nights - car necessary to see hill towns. Relax at a country location and use the days to see some of the famous hill towns. Try to eat at Grappolo Blu in Montalcino - divine!

• Orvieto - 2 nights - Go to Civitá di Bagnoreggio for 1/2 day trip. Easier by car than bus, BTW. And Orvieto has a great parking structure, often included in B&B rates. (Try B&B Ripa di Medici.). Drive to La Spezia when you are ready to go to the CT then ditch the car there.

• Cinque Terre - 3 nights. IMO it's just not worth going to the CT and spending less than 3 nights. Great food, beautiful scenery. If you do not hike, then use trains, buses and boats to see Portofino, Porto Venere. Just seeing the 5 towns (Rick Steves has excellent little town walks for each) will take a full day! Eat at Billy's in Manarola and Il Pirata in Vernazza.

• Milan - 1 night. Be sure to reserve for The Last Supper if you want to see it. (It is magnificent!) See the Duomo, shop. It's enough. Highly recommend Hotel Teco or Hotel Berna.

Eric,

It's great that you're limiting your stay to northern Italy, as 16 days is a good time frame to cover the highlights.

The Itinerary that Laurel suggested would be an excellent one to consider, as it covers most of the places you want to see. The only change I'd make is to drop one night in Venice and add a night in Milan at the end, as that will allow a day trip to Varenna (Lago di Como) so you can at least have a short visit there.

I'm not sure about using an Agriturismo in October? If the weather is miserable, it probably won't be too pleasant so staying in a larger city would offer more "rainy day activities".

I'd suggest either buying a copy of the Italy 2014 Guidebook or using a copy at your local Library for reference. There's an enormous amount of good information there, which will help you to organize the most efficient sightseeing and it also covers transportation, restaurants, etc. It's also available as an E-book in Kindle, iPad and other formats.

On the topic of transportation, there are potentially expensive "caveats" to be aware of both with rental cars and using trains and other public transit. If you need further details on these, post another note. Travel by train is often the quickest and most efficient method, however a car is an advantage in exploring the hill towns of Tuscany, which aren't as well served by public transit.

I most definitely agree with Laurel's recommendation for Il Grappolo Blu in Montalcino. The food is superb (at least IMHO)!

Regarding your stay in the Cinque Terre, I would highly recommend getting lodgings booked SOON. It can be busy even at that time of the year, although early October should be a bit quieter. You'll first have to decide which of the five towns you want to stay in, and then start looking for lodgings. Everyone here has their favourite, and mine is Monterosso (the most northerly town). It's the largest of the five and therefore has the greatest number of hotels, restaurants and other amenities, as well as a great beach.

In planning your time, keep in mind that each change of location will require about half a day. If you have a two night stay in a particular location, that will only allow about a day and a half for sightseeing.

Good luck with your planning!

First of all, I don't think you are trying to do too much. If you skip Milan at the beginning (which makes perfect sense), and you choose to visit Verona, you should go to Verona, then Venice. Just the train ride between the two is about 1.5 hours. It can take you half an hour to get to the train and from the train. That's 5 hours just to get there and back. Also Verona is charming in the evening, well worth an overnight. Or skip Verona (though it's one of my favorites) and go straight to Venice, a great place to relax and get over the jetlag while absorbing all the atmosphere.

I haven't been to any of the lakes, so I can't speak to that. I think 2 nights in the CT is enough. How to divide your time between Siena and Florence . . . Florence is where the Renaissance began and if you love that period, 3 full days in Florence is barely enough. If you aren't art buffs, then a day trip from Siena (easy by bus) is all you need to see the highlights. Florence has more of a big city feel, with some high-end shopping and wide streets. Siena has the atmosphere of a small town. Choose which one suits your interests and day-trip to the other. Then get the car, stay out in the "sticks" and day trip. You have 8 nights between Venice and the CT - plenty of time to see and do a lot.

Driving in Italy can be a challenge. Consider carefully if you will enjoy your visit if you have a car. A few things to consider:

• most of the historic city centers are off-limits to non-authorized vehicles. You have to pay close attention to the signage or you can easily make a mistake, since you will see other cars driving on those streets. The fines are unavoidable and amounts to hundreds of euros.
• Italian drivers are often more aggressive on the highways
• signage is not always good, so you will need either GPS or a good road map and a good navigator. . . or get lost sometimes.
• most rental cars are stick shift. If you can't handle it (remember, you'll be driving in hilly places, including towns), an automatic may cost you another 50% or more.
• The smaller the car, the easier it is to drive the narrow lanes in towns and find parking, but it may not be as comfortable. You will need a car with a trunk large enough to hold all your luggage. You should never leave anything visible in the car when it's parked.

If you decide not to have a car, you can take the train to Orvieto from Florence for a night or two to see that town, then back to Florence. You can easily visit Pisa for 1/2 day (all you need) by leaving your bags at the train station on your way to the CT.

Eric,

You have received some great advice already from others, so I will just add one small suggestion. If you are looking for a unique experience and photo in Siena, I would recommend following the directions in Italy to find the Key Largo Bar on Il Campo. Get a coffee and a pastry and then find your way to the small balcony clinging to the side of the building. The views of Il Campo are great and are some of my favorite shots I have of Siena.

Sharon

Some people say it's too much, I'm on the other end. I did something similar over 18 days and stayed a few more overnights. We stayed 2 nights in all places but Rome and Siena. I didn't mind moving every 2 days as it meant we got to see much of the country. We didn't do all the sights in each city, just some as we will be back. If you want to see a lot and don't mind traveling and changing hotels then go for it.

1 night in Milan is not needed. You can see Milan in a couple hours and they have bag storage at the train station. If you want to see the last supper book ahead and you can play your day in Milan around that time. Take a early evening train to Lake Como. Varenna is nice and right on the train line, an hour ride.

I would slip Tuscany into say 2 nights Siena and 2 nights Orvieto or 3 and 1.

Are your plane tickets already booked? You realize Orvieto is only an hour from Rome. You maybe better off flying out of Rome and staying there for 2 days then traveling all the way back norht to Milan for a plane. You could make modificitaions to something like this:

Arrive Milan, see Milan train to Varenna LAke Como - 2 nights
Venice 3 nights
Cinque Terra 2 night
Florence 2 nights

Siena 3 nights
Orvieto 1 night
Rome 3 nights

The train from Cinque Terra to Florence you go past Pisa. They have bag storage at the station in Pisa. You could spend 3 hours seeing Pisa on the way to Florence too.

Lots of good advice there, but I can't agree with being bored in Siena. I would not worry about weather in early October; I've always had warm weather, swimmable water temps at Monterosso, and just the occasional brief downpour. However, if an agritourismo has a pool, it's may not be open or heated in October.

Hi All, I am so ashamed for not replying sooner to thank all who gave me their advice and suggestions. A situation arose which kept me from this site and from doing any further research on our trip. It looks like we may need to cancel out on Italy.

I hope we have another opportunity in the future and if so, will definitely look forward to seeking your advice again. I am envious of all the destination knowledge you have to share.

Eric