Perhaps too philosophical but a question about Italy...

Wow! Great question and one I had to think about a bit! I've been to Spain twice and really enjoyed both trips (Barcelona, Madrid, Seville, Granada, Salamanca, Santiago, San Sebastian, & Bilbao). I've been to Italy 5 or 6 times and the experience in Spain just isn't, as you said, as intense as a trip to Italy--tapas are good but not as exciting as a great plate of pasta, the Spanish wine is good but less hearty than an Italian red, the Spanish people are very friendly but more reserved than Italians, and I don't remember finding gelato on every street corner in a Spanish city. It's not just about the food but Italian art and architecture appeal more to Americans as well (we're a lot more familiar with the works of Leonardo or Michaelangelo than Dali or Miro.) Also, for people who are going on a first trip to Europe Rome, Paris, London and maybe Amsterdam are at the top of the list, then they might consider destinations like Madrid or Barcelona.

I think it is the sum of many things rather than any one. Moderate climate, Mountains, rolling hills, coastal areas, make the geography ideal. History, the Romans Empire, spectacular ruins, charming villages, Renaissance Europe, the art. The cities from big to small town, Rome, Venice, Florence, Tuscany, Amalfi Coast. The people and THE FOOD, the wine, you name it, they seem to have it. How you can cram so much into one manageable country is beyond me. I also think that Americans have a strong tie to Italy, some through heritage, but many more from the influence immigrants have had on our country. Movies have helped, what person has not watched "Under the Tuscan Sun" and immediately priced tickets? Overall, while many other countries have been treats to visit, no other offers the richness and depth found in Italy. Now...if Belgian beer were an Italian thing instead...I would have moved there permanently a long time ago.

It's a great observation. The Rick Steves community is overwhelmingly focused on Italy, but looking at other participatory websites, Italy's popularity is predominant in most other places too.

I think Italy just satisfies a lot of U.S. traveler requirements. The language barrier isn't very high, the diversity of urban and rural experiences are easy to enjoy and close together. In Spain, for example, sights are quite distant from each other - sort of like trying to plan a vacation in California to visit Disneyland, San Francisco and the Redwoods.

With only two weeks for vacation, Italy is a reliable and rewarding destination.

We like philosophical questions here, something different than the usual nuts & bolts stuff!What makes Italy different? Why is Italy so popular?Food & wineSceneryArtArchitectureMusical traditionLiterary traditionHistory & classical originsSpiritual center of the Catholic worldFor someone with an interest in how our Western culture and worldview developed, Italy is a treasure: Rome obviously; Florence where the Renaissance began, etc...Italy probably has (I'm guessing) more UNESCO world heritage sites than any other country in Western Europe Italy arguably has as many or more art treasures than any other country. Many of the greatest artists and architects that ever lived were Italian.Leonardo da Vinci, Michelangelo, Raphael, etc did all or most of their work in ItalyThe magic of Tuscany Hill TownsThe Vatican, spiritual home to the world's Catholics and a place of huge importance to all of ChristianityThe unique city of VeniceRoman ruinsGreek ruins (Paestum)

I'll turn it around and speak of your next destination in comparison to Italy.

Spain has most of the Italian attributes mentioned above, including their great Rioja wines, museums in Madrid and elsewhere, mountains, rolling hills, a lot of coast line, ski slopes, Moorish architecture, etc. Great cuisine if you like paella, tapas, and bull tail soup (which I do). Unfortunately, they cut all their trees centuries ago and it's too hot and dry for new ones to make a comeback.

I think a main difference is that, compared to Italy, Spain has traditionally been more poor, with a less-developed infrastructure. Of course, being in poverty until more recent times, they have kept a lot of their old-time architecture and charm.

Entering the EU has been great for Spain. Their pluses for tourism include that it's less crowded with tourists than Italy (except the Costa del Sol region), they've had high-speed trains for years, and their highway system is being greatly enhanced and expanded. Until the recent economic downturn they'd been enjoying many years of record-breaking growth.

I predict that, with our growing Hispanic population, and with Spanish being taught in more and more US schools, American tourism in Spain may eventually equal or even surpass American tourism in Italy.

Spain is a great undiscovered treasure, so if the rest of you will just start vacationing in Spain, I can have Italy all to myself!

Great question. I don't know why I , but I have a stronger emotional response to Italy than to other countries. It's like trying to explain falling in love...

I sure everyone has their reasons and it can be quite personal. For me it is the sense of history and TIME. I am history buff and an avid science fiction reader -- I know -- odd combination but it works for me. Not been to Egypt but can think of no other place where history is as extensive and deep as in Rome/Italy. I believe my ancestors were living in tribes and mud huts while Romans experienced plumbing, hot baths, running water and, at times, a decent democracy. When I walked the Forum, I try to imagine my captive ancestor being paraded through the Form and the thoughts in his mind as he looked at those buildings and compared them to his mud hut. He had to believe it was a different universe.

I don't see how anyone with a decent amount of intellect could not be overwhelmed by the achievements of Rome. And then equally sadden by the fact that this was all lost for over a 1000 years. Think where society could be/should be if that 1000 years had not been lost. To me Rome is the faint, glowing ember of a world gone and a world to be. We will never know what could have been but we can imagine. That it is Rome, Italy, and the draw.

I went to 7 countries last summer. I loooooooved Lisbon and Copenhagen especially and can't wait to explore more of Portugal and Denmark/Scandinavia. Also liked Barcelona and want to see more of Spain. but Italy just knocked me over and kicked me in the butt. I don't know what it was. Yes, the food. But also the country's and its residents' sheer enjoyment of life. The exuberance, the passion with which the Italians seem to do everything, it just enveloped me and drew me in and almost a year later I still can't get out and every day I am either reflecting on the two weeks I spent there last summer or hoping and praying that I will soon be able to go back for two more weeks and see more. I'm not even into art that much but these Italian cities just breathe it through every pore - in its churches and squares and on the buildings (and the buildings themselves). It makes a self-proclaimed art "hater" like myself want to like it. It's kind of hard to put into words, and I can only speak for myself but as much as I enjoyed all of the other places I was lucky enough to visit, none of them hit me in the head and heart and soul in the way Italy did. And I'm sure i'm not alone :)

Kent, your reply was great! That sums up a lot of the reasons people seem to like Italy. Whether one likes history, fashion, great food, art, etc., Italy has it all.

I can't provide an easy answer on why Italy has such an attraction for me. Perhaps it's partially due to fact there's some family history there? I haven't been to Spain yet so can't make that comparison. Even though all of the other countries I've visited have been wonderful, for some reason I think more of Italy.

When planning future trips, it seems that no matter which I country I plan on travelling to I always try to find some excuse to make the trip either begin or end in Italy. In my travels so far, it's the country I've spent the most time in. I feel most "at home" when I'm in Italy.

I'm been studying Italian (not fluent yet though), and I plan on spending a lot more time there!

Interesting discussion!

All the previous, more "philosophical" answers are true, but I think there's a much simpler reason why it seems that the comments on Italy are more populated/intense than, say, those on Spain...

Under the "New Travelers' Helpline", Italy gets its own category ("To the Boot"). It's the ONLY country that gets its own category. OTOH, Spain is lumped in along with Austria, Benelux (3 countries right there!), France, Germany, Portugal and Switzerland ("To the West").

Now there may in fact be more interest in, and more comments posted on, Italy than some of these other countries, but if you look in the "To the Boot" message board, you will find only messages posted on Italy. Go to "To the West" and the posts on Spain are mixed in with 9 other countries. No wonder it seems like the messages on Spain aren't as concentrated.

I'm not sure that the current division between the boards really makes sense, but it is what it is.

Now, if it was up to me, I would probably organize it somewhere along these lines:

1. United Kingdom, Ireland
2. Scandinavia
3. Eastern Europe (from the Baltics and Poland in the north to Bulgaria and the former Yugoslav states in the south)
4. Germany, Austria, Switzerland
5. France & Benelux
6. Italy & Greece
7. Spain & Portugal
8. Beyond Europe: Morocco & North Africa, Turkey, Isreal & the Middle East

I'm not complaining. It's Rick's gig and I enjoy it as is, even if the organization seems a little odd at times.

As a counterpoint to David regarding the organization of the boards, I think this has little effect. Many remember the previous version of this forum, essentially a continuous list of posts, no categorization. At that time, the Italy questions were disproportionately high. The categories seen today, particularly the Italy board, are an outcome of that demand, not creating demand. If you visit other sites, there you will find the same high number of Italy posts under differing categorization. This is not a slight on other countries, just an observation.

To be honest, I don't know what to say. The variety and QUALITY of the responses to the relatively simple question I posed--in effect, Why Italy?--are remarkable, and reinforce, for me, the notion that Italy engenders a unique and special response from the traveler. Perhaps it is that land's vital role as a foundation for our western world? Perhaps travelers from the east don't feel the same way in the same number, and with the same intensity? I don't know, but I know I like it, and I like thinking about it, too. Thanks for your help.

Well, I think you've hit on something John.

Not to be too Jungian here, but I think many of us western-born people, maybe Americans particularly, have a need to search out and touch in some way our roots. Our story. The word, lineage, itself should tell us that we are connected points along a line.

Italy has influenced a lot of us in ways no other country has, from its pre-history even into today, and has a spirituality that is many-layered. Even the not-so-dead Latin language is still alive and well, morphed over the years into the romance languages and half of the roots of English we use every day.

If this is interesing you might like to meet the guy who owns and rents out part of his ancestral villa north of Rome. http://belvedere-italia.com/ Click on Roman Villa. Other interesting & esoteric info there also.

Other than all that, can you say cappucino, gelato, risotto, panino, vino rosso and get them in any other one place?

:^)

Bis vivit qui bene vivit - He lives twice who lives well

Yes,I have often wondered about the popularity of Italy. I have traveled to numerous European countries and enjoyed them all but never to Italy and when I mention them in conversations it seems that they cannot compare to Italy and if you have not been to Italy then you have not been anywhere (at least that is the impression my listeners give me.) And that has been the reason I have stayed away from Italy but now my first trip is in September and we shall see how I like it. I have always enjoyed the countries I have visited especially Spain - Madrid, Sevilla, Granada, Toledo.Then Holland, Turkey,Belguim and always Switzerland.Italy should be no different.

Reading all of this, I can't help remembering what my grandfather used to say "There are two types of people in this world: those who are Italian and those who wish they were." Personally, I think part of the thing that makes Italy so appealing is that it appears as this whole other exotic world but it's very approachable. The culture is very family oriented (as I found it to be in most of Europe), and you see today's generations are still very intouch with the past's generations. Talking with the people is like touching the past -- everybody, any age has a story. And no matter how bad things are, the people are still happy and they love to share with anybody they come into contact with. How can you not like a place that's full of people waiting with open arms? The food, wine, and scenery certainly don't hurt the place, either, but then, I am a little partial...