Overwhelmed

The train trip from Paris to Milan is over 7 hours. I'd fly Paris-> Milan and then Milan -> Amsterdam. This is WAY too long on a train for me as an adult and I can't imagine it with little ones.

I would take the train from Amsterdam back to Paris. It's too late now but next time consider flying open jaw - in to one location and out of another. Flying home from Amsterdam would have cut out a train journey.

Why would you subject yourselves and your kids to these very long train rides, when you could fly to Milan and Amsterdam in a fraction of the time?

If you fly those 2 routes, then the only train tickets you need to buy in advance would be from A'dam to Paris. Wait until your itinerary is firmly nailed down.

Tip for next time: instead of wasting time and money returning to your arrival city, book a multicity ticket flying into your arrival city and out of your last city ( NOT the same thing as 1 one way tickets, which would be expensive).

Thanks for your insight so far! Yes, I was looking at some regional flights as well. Need to go back to strongly considering them at this point I guess. Baggage fees add up quickly!

In terms of our transatlantic flights, yes, it would have made more sense to do multi-city. However, our flight was booked using a flight voucher for an airline that only flies in/out of Paris or Rome. Rome was triple the price for the flight.

I’m curious why you would take a train from Paris to Milan instead of flying? The train will take at least 7 hours.

You might consider flying into Milan and out of Florence (to Amsterdam) instead of back tracking to Milan. Or fly Paris to Florence and work your way north to Milan by car, then fly from Milan to Amsterdam. Flights within Europe are inexpensive, often cheaper than trains. Just be aware of luggage limits. But flying will save you a lot of time traveling this distance. Consider:

Fly from US to Paris
Fly Paris to Milan, pick up car
Explore Italy lakes and Tuscany
Fly from Florence to Amsterdam
Train from Amsterdam to Paris
Spend at least one night in Paris before flying home. Don’t take the train from Amsterdam on departure day.

This would be five different locations. Adding someplace coastal would be six. Considering you will be in Paris for a week at the beginning, and at least one night at the end, this leaves 13 nights for 4-5 locations. This seems like too many stops to me, especially with small children. I would either eliminate Amsterdam or limit what you see in Italy to 1-2 locations.

A couple of questions:
Why driving from Milan to Tuscany? Like with the Paris-Milan route by train and not flying, it seems you want to travel slowly. Nothing bad with it, if that's your choice and not a mistake.
Why going back to Milan when the trains to Paris call also at Turin's Porta Susa station?

Drive to Tuscany, Lake Garda, somewhere coastal and back to Milan (use about a week)

Put these places on a map and count how many times you would be backtracking driving through the Apennines. If I were you I'd get off the French train in Turin and take a train to one of the seaside villages in Liguria. Then a train to LaSpezia where you can rent a car and start driving around Tuscany. Then go directly by car to the Lake Garda. Drop the car when you are done with the Lake and take a train to Milan, to avoid the congestion charge area.

Agree with others, flying will save you time.

Look at Alitalia...
Paris Orly (ORY) > Milan Linate (LIN) 1H25 min.
Price for the 4 of you in mid May around $200, lowest class. No extra luggage.
ORY is easier to reach from central Paris.

Rent your car at LIN. Shorter travel time to Tuscany.

Check Florence, Pisa and Milan Lin for trip to AMS.

Edit. For a lake area look at lake Maggiore.
Coastal area Viareggio or Forte di Marmi.

If you want to see Tuscany, fly to a closer airport than Milan, such as Pisa or Florence. For example, EasyJet goes from Orly to Pisa. Search for low cost airline routes on skyscanner.com and then only book on the airline's website. At the end of the Italy portion, drop off the car at an airport that has a low cost flight to Amsterdam. Don't trust a low cost rental car offers - use only Avis, Budget, Hertz, Europcar or Sixt, booking direct or through Autoeurope.com (not Autoeuropa with an 'a').

I personally love your plan 2bambinos. Taking the train is so much better with small children. I did the same thing in the 80's and a cramped airplane and long check-in time is not actually that much slower than a pleasant and scenic train journey. Perhaps you could take the train to your Italian destination and fly from there to Amsterdam. Then you'll know next time which one you prefer. Remember this: You really can't be wrong. It will be fantastic whatever you decide.

The seven hour train trip from Paris to Milan is not going to be fantastic if it's anything like the 7 hour train trip I took in 2015 from Milan to Paris. Especially in the mountains on a train rated at 300kmph that's going on 50kmph because of the terrain.

Take the plane and save yourself from being the subject of a chapter in your kids' memoirs years from now.

Whatever you decide to do, I don't think the kids will remember much about the trip. Take lots of pictures, maybe with them and a special souvenir from this particular trip when they were so young.

Your children won't remember the trip, but when they are older, they will love seeing photos of themselves in those places.

Thanks for your insight, everyone. We opted to do Paris to Milan via the train, Milan to Amsterdam via plane and then Amsterdam to Paris via train.

Now to plan where to go for our 10 days in Italy with a car...

You will enjoy your trip more if you can leave the kids with Grandparents at home. Traveling with toddlers will wear you down.

Florence is not a big city like Milan or Rome. It is less expensive than big cities.

If you read the posts on renting a car in Italy, you will expect to receive a very expensive ticket after you return home. Not sure that I would want to rent a car in Italy. IF you do, take exceptional care not to speed or driving into a bus lane or area of a city where cars aren't allowed.

Not all parents have the option of leaving their Littles with grandparents. Grandma and Grandpa may still be working, live far away, be physically unable to care for active youngsters, be unwilling to care for active youngsters for multiple weeks, or may no longer be living, etc.

As well, not all parents want to be away from their Littles, and Momma may also be that baby's main food group? :O)

2bambinos, yes, do some reading up on driving in Italy (there are many previous threads on the subject) and you'll want a vehicle large enough to manage two car seats plus stroller/child carriers plus stowing your baggage out of sight, if you'll be leaving the car unattended for stops when traveling from point to point. Never leave anything you can't afford to lose in the vehicle while out sightseeing.

I wish we could leave them with grandparents... Grandparents will actually be with us for the Paris portion, as it’s a family event we are there for. The other grandparents work and/or aren’t physically capable of caring for littles.

I am also the smallest one’s main source of food ;)

Our oldest has been with us on several trips of various durations and paces, with and without long car and plane rides. She loves looking at pictures of herself from all of the places she’s been. The youngest is more relaxed than his older sister as well.

Why are we doing this trip? We have to go for a family event and if you’re paying for a flight to get all the way over there, why wouldn’t you make the most of it?

Yes, we weighed pros and cons of a car for a while and have read up quite a bit on driving there. We feel comfortable using a car for what we want it for and understand the risks and costs associated with those risks. We have heard both horror and “highlight of my life” stories in regards to driving around Italy. The horror stories only turned to horror when they got home and got the tickets and wished they paid more attention or were even aware of the ZTLs.

You are going to have a marvelous time, and 🌟 for doing research in advance about the car! They do tend to be rather small, thus my mention about getting one large enough for all of you and the stuff.

Little ones are rock stars in The Boot; Italians generally adore children (or so we observed) and they'll be welcome virtually everywhere. Gram and Gramp might also put them to bed one night in Paris so you can have a dinner without the diaper bag and crayons?

We have heard both horror and “highlight of my life” stories in regards to driving around Italy. The horror stories only turned to horror when they got home and got the tickets and wished they paid more attention or were even aware of the ZTLs.

Before we went all the horror stories had me a little spooked. When I got there I found if you have at least average intelligence, did a little research on the internet and paid attention both ZTLs and speed limits weren't a problem. Speed limits are easy: Don't speed!

Have a great time!

Yes, we opted for a station wagon. It says it can accommodate 5 people and 2 bags comfortably. Fingers crossed!

As we are going to be hauling two littles, we are going to do our best to keep luggage light and minimal to help with the space issues as well.

I took a test inline and it appears that my intelligence is at least average! Hopefully we can manage... I’m the speeder, hubby isn’t. I won’t be allowed to drive.

In nearly every case when someone comes onto the forum to report (or complain about) receipt of traffic tickets after returning home, it is clear they failed to do any research about European driving rules before they got behind the wheel. If you don't even know ZTLs exist, or that the speed limit drops automatically when you pass the entering-town signs in France, you're likely to have a very expensive driving experience.

Hey 2bambinos... I am by no means an expert but we did a month in Europe with 2 full weeks in Italy years ago with our three young sons. It was incredible. For us there was no need to rent a car because the trains/metro are incredible, & frankly we thought driving there looked like a total nightmare. We flew in to Venice, went to Florence, Pisa, Vernazza (CT), to Rome & Naples. Never needed or missed having a car. My kids LOVED the trains & we booked the Freccia high speed trains early wherever we could. Great to let them move around & have tables to play games & eat snacks & relax & watch the beautiful scenery.

LOL... loved your comment about "not museums". We dragged our kids up & down and all over the Uffizi gallery & made them completely miserable. We still laugh about that to this day!

Enjoy your trip!!

Hello 2 bambino’s- we are flying into Paris in May, driving to Normandy, leaving car in Caen and then going to Paris for a few days before training to Milano from Gare de Lyon. From Milano we will catch a train to Verona and then to Trento. This will be a very busy 2 weeks for 2 well traveled, active adults.

A few thoughts for you- I think your itinerary is too aggressive with little children whether you are training or flying. You are counting on getting them up and ready to roll as the schedule needs, when (at least when my 2 children were little) that didn’t always happen. You also really need to consider the time issue- as you will loose 6 hours of precious sleep the evening that you fly to Paris. I would cut down this vacation to a more reasonable area and if you want to go from Paris to Milan or Italy in general, grab some tickets on oui.sncf. Last night I purchased 2 one way tickets from GdeLyon to Milano Garibaldi for 108E total!! We will then take a regional train to Verona.

We train since the scenery is beautiful, its more relaxing and especially with kids, you will need some down time. When you get to Italy, you will realize why it is so popular with unprecedented beauty, history, architecture and of course, its food and wine. Good luck on your decision. PM me if you have any questions about the train from France to Italy.