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Options?

We have a rather complicated graduation trip for my daughter starting on June 8th. We are flying from Miami to London and spending a night, then on to Rome. We will be staying in Italy for 12 nights. We are departing from Venice, going to Paris for two nights, then back to Miami. Four flights, four different airlines (Norwegian, RyanAir, EasyJet, and Corsair). So far, all our flights are still scheduled. I have been in contact with our hotels and (of course) they are all telling me by June things should be a lot better and our trip should be doable. I'm hopeful, but also looking at alternatives. Another potential issue is the rumor that my daughter's gradation may be rescheduled from May 16th to June 25th. Option one is to cancel everything and forget about the trip. We have "cancel for any reason" insurance and would probably lose around $2000. Option two is to try and reschedule for 5 weeks later, starting the trip in mid-July. I'm not sure this would make much difference, but I suspect it would be better in July rather than June. Option three is to reschedule the trip for December. My wife and I are both teachers, so we would have a two week break in late December. The trip would be a couple of days shorter and my wife doesn't like this idea, as she does not like being outside in cold weather. Option four is to reschedule the trip for summer of 2021, which could be a very busy time if everyone does the same thing.

Two of the hotels are non-refundable and I have not asked about rescheduling. It looks like airline schedules are active until about April of 2021, so rescheduling for summer 2021 could not happen right now. My trip insurance is good for two years, so any of the options would be protected. I haven't asked trip insurance company, but would assume if I use the "cancel for any reason" option on a non-refundable hotel that will not reschedule and I could not keep the policy for the rescheduled trip.

Ok, hit me up with your opinions.

Posted by
11151 posts

Option one or four.

Trying to reschedule for this year is likely to be a logistical nightmare with airlines schedules in such a state of flux.

Norwegian Air is teetering on extinction. Never heard of Corsair, but did a quick search, and to me they appear to be the kind of airline that could be sent the way of the dodo bird by the chaos of covid..

I would look at minimizing my losses and starting over once some kind of normal returns.

That's my $0.02

Posted by
33 posts

If I utilize the "cancel for any reason" option, we only get back 75% for the non-refundable costs. This is typical of this option. I agree about Corsair. I had never heard about them before I bought the tickets. Contact with them has been an issue, as their replies to questions are in French. I would think if a customer asks a question in English, you respond in English. Norwegian has no email contact information, so I have no idea about them. I have not looked at the published options for these airlines, but I know some have offered to reschedule at no charge. But rescheduling right now would not be an option if we decide to go summer of 2021. Right now I am thankful I purchased trip insurance with the cancel for any reason option.

Posted by
854 posts

Option One or Four. Losing money is recoverable. Remember, the actual issue is not whether you can go, it is whether you will enjoy being there - and based on current reports for the US and Europe that seems extremely unlikely to me for the other options.

Posted by
1103 posts

I don't think that European travel will be possible in the summer of 2020. It is possible that borders will be closed in Europe, making your itinerary impossible.

Posted by
2700 posts

I’m counting out any overseas travel until at least 2022. I hope I’m wrong but this virus is scary. There has got to be a proven vaccine and/or easy safe treatment before I even start planning. Take Option one and celebrate the graduation and life at home.

Posted by
10176 posts

The members if the Schengen zone are debating closing borders to non-Europeans until the fall. We don’t know what kind of self-isolation rules will be in effect and for how long. I would get back as many refunds as possible and just wait. You may be able to go summer of 2021.

In the States, with all the publicized chain rattling about liberty, we’re out of step with most of the world. People are hunkered down, borders are closed and will be for a while.

Posted by
500 posts

My little tip:
First of all check if the flights you are supposed to take are confirmed next week. Same day, same hour. Some flights are still running because companies cannot stop al operations. This can give you an idea about what could happen to your flights. If your flight on 8th of June is confirmed, but the same line next Monday is cancelled, probably even your one will be cancelled in June if people wont be free to travel (and probably in June nobody will be free to travel).
In my opinion is easier obtain a change of date (or better a voucher) from hotels and flight companies than a refund. Maybe no all ones, but the most of them. So if you decide to postpone your trip you can save almost all you money. If somebody refuse to give you a voucher, you have your insurance to cover that lost, but probably you lose much less than 2000$.
So my suggestion is to discard option one. Option two is a little risky at this point. Three is more reasonable, but if you prefer to avoid cold season, why don't reschedule for next Spring break in 2021?
About the situation in Italy. Everything is closed and you cannot walk for free in the street without a reason (if you have a dog you can go out for a short walk but within 200m from your house). Are opened farmacies, food shops and some factories. The discussion is to open all factories and working activities for the beginning of May, but not everybody agree. Maybe in June will be opened again restaurants and bars, but with strong limits to movement and crowding. At that point probably even walking on the street will be allowed, but maybe wearing protections and keeping distance. So, at the moment, if you are able to reach Italy you have to stay for the whole time in your hotel room and move o and from the airport. The risk is that arrive in June means have the same restriction for a leisure trip.

Posted by
33 posts

Assuming that travel is even possible in June, we could probably deal with certain limitations or changes; such as dropping Milan and Venice and staying in the central/southern part of the country. That being said, the ability to navigate the travel restrictions of three different countries could be impossible. I understand that where I am at right now things are much better than Italy. There are probably three reasons why we are still even considering the original dates, if possible. One is it's my daughter's graduation present and I hate to disappoint my daughter. Two is if travel is even allowed the crowds will be smaller. Three is after repeated communications over the past several weeks with our lodgings (which are all small. mom and pop places) I feel for their economic situation. I doubt many of these places will survive with extended travel restrictions. In all likely hood, we will just unwind this trip and cancel everything. In the event we cancel and use the cancel for any reason option, how does the insurance company verify that specific reservation is non-refundable? My first plan would be to contact the hotel/airline myself (if possible) to try and negotiate a refund. If they refuse (which is probable) I would assume they may offer some sort of credit. I would probably not accept this, as I am suspect of which hotels/airlines are actually going to be around a year from now. At this point I would need to use the cancel for any reason option. How would the insurance company then proceed? I assume they could not require me to take a credit, if one was offered. What verification do they need this is a non-refundable reservation? Do they contact the hotel/airline?

Posted by
52 posts

Do not fly Norwegian air. I flew back from Italy with them last October and they changed the airport. No, that’s not a typo; they changed the airport. My flight landed at 1:45 AM and they volunteered to pay for public transportation between JFK in Newark.
Do not fly Norwegian air.

Posted by
11151 posts

if one was offered. What verification do they need this is a non-refundable reservation? Do they contact the hotel/airline?

The reservation confirmation you have should outline the cancellation provisions. Presumably a copy of that would be sufficient.

The other thing you can do is look at your policy to see what it says about 'claim submission'.

Posted by
33 posts

So I read something tonight that was a little concerning. Does anyone know anything about the relatively new bankruptcy laws in Italy? I didn't really understand entirely what was written (it was translated) but it appeared if the business was in danger of going bankrupt, they didn't have to make refunds.

Posted by
759 posts

I’ll be the blunt one- you are simply not getting into Italy and France in June as a tourist. It is not a remote if, it is a solid not going to happen.

France had enacted new regulations to try and protect their economy. It allows tourism based businesses to refuse to refund deposits but instead provide you with a credit voucher good for 18 months; with a cash refund if unused after 18 months. The decision belongs to the business. Some businesses are hiding behind it and stating they legally are forced to give the voucher instead of the refund and pointing to the government. That is not the case, the business can do either- it is the decision of the business and with their income brought to an instant halt it only makes sense for them to go the voucher route. This regulation overrules any contract terms as to cancellation and refunds.

There are reports of Italian businesses pointing to a similar Italian regulation but I have not read it. Some have thought the Italian businesses are stretching the regulation a bit but again, speculation. On this point getting a cash refund out of Italy I would put down as highly doubtful.

You need to read the very fine print of your insurance contract. There are loopholes within loopholes. The hotel or attraction/tour providing/offering the voucher may allow your carrier to escape payment if a claim.

You need to read your insurance contract down to the finest detail and then talk to the carrier as to how a loss is covered and what documentation will be required.

Posted by
500 posts

Does anyone know anything about the relatively new bankruptcy laws in Italy?

In general the law about bankruptcy in Italy hasn't changed so much. If a company goes in bankrupt there is a lawyer in charge to sold everything possible. With the money collected they pay back:
1 - the workers and employees of the company
2 - the banks debts
3 - any other person want back money from the company.
Usually the money collected by the lawyer is not enough to pay all the employees, sometimes they pay back a little of the bank debts, almost never they pay other people. You are of course in the third group.

About refund: for any Italian hotels (or any kind of accommodation) the new special law for Coronavirus says that if you have a booking and you cannot enjoy during the lockdown period, this booking have to be refunded. There is no mention of "no refundable" booking: all ones have to be refunded. You have 30 days after the beginning day of your travel to make your request. Unfortunately you cannot decide to have back your money or obtain a voucher: this decision is made by the hotel. The voucher will be valid one year after the emission date, so you have time to do your travel even next spring.

The reference laws for requests are:
D.L. n. 9 in vigore dal 02 marzo 2020 https://www.gazzettaufficiale.it/eli/id/2020/03/02/20G00026/sg
D.L. n. 18 in vigore dal 17 marzo 2020 https://www.gazzettaufficiale.it/eli/id/2020/03/17/20G00034/sg
(if you believe that is difficult read an auto-translated Italian law, remember that is difficult even for a Italian understand it! :-D )
A brief explanation can be found here: https://nexumstp.it/news/newsalert-covid-19-decreto-legge-n-18-del-17-marzo/

In general in Italy even the Consumers Associations are asking to tourists to don't ask a cash refund but ask only for the voucher. They are very well aware that for a lot of tourist organizations there isn't enough cash to refund everything.
So, my suggestion is similar to the previos one: ask for a voucher in the hotel and do your trip later during 2020 or first half of 2021. If you are worried about bankruptcy you can check if it is covered under your insurance. Probably yes.

About flights, all your companies are outside Italy, so probably they have different behavior and refund policies.

Posted by
33 posts

The problem with the voucher is the timing. We are teachers and can only travel at certain times. A 14 month voucher might work, but a 12 month voucher would be cutting it close as we do not get out of school until the first of June. We could fit a shorter trip into winter break, with a few modifications. In the event a hotel refuses a refund, I assume I can use the cancel for any reason option of my insurance. Of course that means I am losing more money. Also, what happens with the voucher if the hotel goes out of business anyway?

Posted by
759 posts

Please Stop assuming and read your policy. Not all cancel for any reason policies are really cancel for any reason- you have to read your specific policy contract.

You will be getting vouchers and not cash refunds, the fact the voucher is not convenient is irrelevant. It is what it is. Being offered a voucher may provide the insurance carrier an out as for coverage for that expense.. Again, Read Your Policy and call your carrier.

Posted by
33 posts

So here what my policy states.

TRIP CANCELLATION
"Benefits will be paid......to reimburse You for the amount
of the Published Penalties and unused non-refundable Prepaid Payments or Deposits..... when You are prevented from taking Your Trip due to: You or Your Traveling Companion being hijacked, quarantined,......"

Bankruptcy or Default of an airline ......... causing a complete cessation of travel services more than 14 days following Your Effective Date. Benefits will be paid due to Bankruptcy or Default of an airline only if no alternate transportation is available. If alternate transportation is available, benefits will be limited to the change fee charged to allow You to transfer to another airline in order to get to Your intended destination.

I thought that was interesting. While we are currently quarantined, I doubt we will be in June. Also, if our flights are cancelled and no airline if flying to our destination, would this be covered under the trip cancellation section?

OPTIONAL CANCEL FOR ANY REASON BENEFIT
If You cancel Your Trip for any reason not otherwise covered by this Policy, benefits will be paid for 75% of the Prepaid,
forfeited, non-refundable Payments or Deposits You paid for Your Trip provided:
a) Your Payment or Deposit for this Policy and enrollment form are received within 20 days of the date Your initial Payment
or Deposit for Your Trip is received;
b) You insure 100% of the Prepaid Trip costs that are subject to cancellation penalties or restrictions and also insure within
15 days of the Payment or Deposit for those Travel Arrangements the cost of any subsequent Travel Arrangements (or
any other Travel Arrangements not made through Your travel agent) added to Your Trip; and

c) You cancel Your Trip two (2) days or more before Your Scheduled Departure Date.
These benefits will not duplicate any other benefits payable under the Policy or any
coverage(s) attached to the Policy.

Can anyone translate the legalese from b)?

Posted by
11151 posts

Can anyone translate the legalese from b)?

Is the amount of the coverage your chose equal to or greater than your trip cost, is the simplified essence ( as I understand the wording)

Posted by
759 posts

You are under Quarantine?
Where and how were you exposed to the virus?

State general lock down orders are NOT Quarantine Orders.

Posted by
33 posts

Good point. I guess we are technically not under quarantine. Which made me think of something else. I would assume if you were exposed to the virus, you would need to be quarantined for 14 days. If that was within 14 days of departure, then I take that to mean this would be covered under the trip cancellation portion of the policy. I wonder what type of documentation is required by the insurance company to prove this? In addition to my concern about small, mom and pop hotels not being able to weather this storm; I also wonder about the ability of trip insurance companies being able to remain solvent. Thanks so much for all the feedback and keeping it civil and respectful.

Posted by
11151 posts

I haven't asked trip insurance company, but would assume
I wonder what type of documentation is required by the insurance company

Since your focus has shifted from what it was in your original 4-17 post, you should not 'assume' and call the carrier, explain your situation and have them explain what benefits you are entitled to and what proof/evidence you have to provide to satisfy them.

Asking these questions of this forum leads to a discussion of how many angels fit on a pinhead.

Posted by
222 posts

With all the other obstacles of the trip, I think we need to look at the big picture. We have no idea from our end what the devastation in Italy truly looks like unless we are there. I cannot fathom the sadness the people of Italy are feeling right now. Even if you went, even if you were spending money in a broken economy, I'm not sure how welcomed you would be. It may be some time before they are running to capacity to support the tourism business. Maybe its just me but June would still be too early to celebrate an occasion in a county that lost so much so fast. From what I am gathering, some of the major airlines have canceled all routes from the US to Italy until June 30th. Also, there was a recent report stating countries are deciding to limit travel to Schengen areas from places such as the US until September 2020 for safety concerns. We had a trip planned for May 1st to Scotland. We did cancel on our own as we knew this would not happen. We did change our Airbnb's to September just to have something positive to look forward to but still being realistic this may not happen. Our third choice is to try May 2021 but a little worried the ole RONA will come back again to play. Congrats to your daughter, she will love whatever trip, whenever you all are able to go! Stay safe!

I think I would prioritize your options as OPTION 1, OPTION 3 and then OPTION 4

Posted by
500 posts

Even if you went, even if you were spending money in a broken economy,
I'm not sure how welcomed you would be. It may be some time before
they are running to capacity to support the tourism business.

Italians are very easy and fast to recover. When Italy will be opened again and people free to move everything will became only a fairy-tale in a little more than a week.
At that moment tourists will be welcomed like before.
The issue is know when this happen. Middle of May? June? September? 2021?

We have no idea from our end what the devastation in Italy truly looks like unless we are there.

In fact no devastation. Now the worst has been passed and everybody is looking forward to be free to move. We have just ended the emergency period. Emergency Rooms are not crowded, no lack of Intensive Care in the hospitals (even thanks to the new temporary hospital in Bergamo). The lockdown now is going on to avoid a new increasing, waiting for a therapy or a vaccine.
Remember: COVID-19 cause a bad pneumonia, but pneumonia has been ever fatal for weak people. The difference is that for "standard" virus whom cause pneumonia we have a therapy, for this new one not yet.

Posted by
11 posts

Option 3, in Europe the weather is not as warm as a Florida but still, you will find many places without that many people around, so will be much nicer and easier to go around. By the way, wait until the last second and try to stay with your original schedule.
As all we know is a global pandemic, so or everything starts together or nothing is going to work.