Northern Italy Itinerary Help Needed

Would you consider a few days in beautiful Lake Como, Varenna, for lakes?
Then take the regional train to Tirano, Italy, cross the plaza and take the Bernina Express, regional train, to Pontressina for a day or two? Pontressina offers hiking to glaciers, mountain biking, and lifts. Or perhaps just one night to break up the journey, and continue onto the Berner Oberland? ( We did this journey and it was six hours total by train, not too long for us.) Of course, maximize your number of nights in the BO, no one is ever ready to leave, then onto Lucerne. If your Zurich flight isn't too early, it's an easy commute to the Zurich airport from Lucerne, an hour+ train ride.
Have a wonderful trip, and remember, it's much cooler in the summer in the Alps!
Have a wonderful trip!

As for day trips Verona (about 45 minutes by train) is a lovely, walkable city in a bend in the river with medieval buildings, a Roman arena and an arty, cafe culture vibe. Brescia (~1:20) is a town similar in size to Padua but has amazing Roman ruins and a castle on top of the hill. Bologna is an energetic college town (~1:15) with a great central square and is generally regarded as Italy's food capital - which is saying something. Ravenna has amazing mosaicked church ceilings but always seems hard to get to despite not being that far away.

These are the bigger cities and there are smaller, charming little towns as well - if you list your interests people will have other suggestions, I'm sure.

Have a great trip,
=Tod

I’d leave the nights for Ortisei, Muerren and Lucerne as is. We stayed in Lucerne our night before our flight home from Zurich airport.

The poster did list their interests in the original post.

“ We are all outdoor enthusiasts who love hiking, water sports, and good food. We aren't fans of big cities, museums, etc and instead prefer to explore less popular, smaller towns and villages when possible”.

Besides those already listed, other day trips from Padova:

Mantova - excellent Gonzaga dynasty sites to tour, very nice set of piazzas, a great place to rent a bike and go along the water, too.

Ferrara - interesting castle in the center of the town, another great place to rent bikes. Fantastic food! Ravenna is a direct train from Ferrara.

And of course, wonderful Venice!

Vicenza - Palladio architecture. We found this one less interesting but had a delicious meal when we stayed overnight.

Regarding your question about the lakes, Ortesei is a straight shot up from Verona, so I wouldn’t bother going over to Lake Maggiore or Lake Como. The Dolomites are gorgeous! I would keep those days there.

Unfortunately Varenna is a small and very popular town, and the hotels appear to be pretty well booked up , at least on the late June early July dates I checked. Booking. Com com lists a few apartments buy look to be outside town, so one would need a car. But you could take a look for your actual dates and maybe have good luck.

Thank you all for these really helpful suggestions!

Pat - your suggestion of Varenna-->Pontressina-->BO is really interesting. I think to make it work, we may then have to skip Ortisei, but I'm going to do some playing around with our schedule to see if it could work!

I'm feeling more and more like like we shouldn't miss at least a short stop in the lake region, so I'm going to look into this further. Varenna seems to be a popular choice, and I'd love the opportunity to access Sentiero del Viandante. That said, the following trip from Varenna to Murren seems to involve, as mentioned, quite a bit of back tracking. We're not necessarily opposed to this as we love travel by train. Looking at train routes, it seems Stresa on lake Maggiore might be a more direct stop over between Ortisei and Interlaken, but would we be short changing ourselves missing lake Como and stopping over for a few days in Stresa instead? Or is there another stopover point on the trip from Ortisei to Murren that we should consider? Or should we ditch the idea of traveling by train in favor of a rental car (at least for a portion of the trip) for added flexibility?

Hiredman and Jean - thanks so much for the tips on day trips from Padua. I wasn't really all that excited about that week of the trip until I saw all the wonderful places we can access!!

Thanks again all!

Mica, I have stayed in Varenna on Lake Como and Stresa on Lake Maggiore. Stresa is my favorite place at the Italian lakes.

Absolutely go to the little islands right there.! Isola Bella has the Borromeo villa to walk through and the gorgeous formal Italian garden. Isola Pescatori is a small fishing village. I haven’t gone over to Isola Madre.

Villa Taranto is another beautiful garden without the very formal structure of Isola Bella’s. It’s a nice ferry ride up to it.

The Hermitage of Santa Caterina del Sasso is a very short ferry ride in the opposite direction. A nice place for gorgeous view photos!

You will be disappointed in the beach if you’re hoping for a sandy lake beach.. Nothing worth noting. But, it’s very nice to walk the promenade and enjoy the historic grand hotels.

If you are staying there, my favorite hotel experience is to stay on tiny Isola Bella at Boutique Hotel Elvezia for my last night in Stresa. It’s such a special location, and you can stroll the island in the evening, almost having it to yourself. Reserve a water view room with the balcony. The small hotel has a nice restaurant, too.

I saw your post yesterday afternoon when we were at an airport waiting to board our flight home, but did not have time to respond. When we arrived home and I went to respond, your post had disappeared! I got that funny “Rick is exhausted” page saying he could not find it. So I am glad to see you are back.

I have some information that is important for you to know about the journey from Italy into Switzerland, as it affects your choices. The “usual” main route from Milan to the Berner Oberland is via Brig and Spiez, but a section of the track on this route, between Arona and Stresa, will be closed most of the summer, From June 9 to September 8. So getting to Stresa will involve a bus link over the gap, but it has not been put on the schedule yet (at least as of yesterday it was not there). But it will mean the trains along that line will be limited, and will take longer than usual. So Stresa may not be the best choice for your Lake District time.

There are two other routes into Switzerland from Milan, and Pat has given you one of them—-Via Varenna and the Bernina Express route to Pontresina and Chur. The other is more direct, using the Gotthard Pass route from Milan via Lugano and Bellinzona, over the pass (a scenic journey comparable to the Bernina route) to Luzern. There is a direct train from Luzern to Interlaken Ost, gateway to the Berner Oberland villages. This would be a long day’s journey from Ortesei, but you can easily break it up with overnights at some lakeside towns right on the way.

The direct route from the Dolomites would be Ortesei to Bolzano by bus, then train Bolzano to Verona, changing there for the train to Milan (there is one direct Freccce train on some days, but it departs Bolzano early in the morning). The train between Verona and Milan makes a stop (or 2) at towns on Lago di Garda, either Peschiera del Garda or Desenzano del Garda. Our last 2 trips to Switzerland and Italy included 2 nights in Desenzano on our way between Luzern and the Dolomites, with the intervening day spent exploring Sirmione and the Grottoes of Catullus:

https://lakegardatravel.net/grottoes-of-catullus-sirmione/

This is accessed by a short ferry ride from Desenzano. My 11-year-old grandchildren loved the ferry ride and the castle and Roman ruins at Sirmione last September.

Desenzano would be a a 3-hour journey from Bolzano; add the bus time from Ortesei and you sill have a reasonable journey.

Other overnight stops to consider on the route would be after Milan: the lakeside Swiss cities of Lugano or Locarno. You could reach either in 5-6 hours from Bolzano; much less if starting at Desenzano. Locarno is past Lugano so takes longer to reach, but I think it offers more in the way of recreation as well as more reasonable lakeside or lakeview hotels. I did check and there is pretty good availability in late June/early July. As for recreation, in addition to the water sports opportunities at the lake (swimming, kayaking, SUP) there is the nearby Valle Verzasca, easily reached by PostBus.

https://www.ascona-locarno.com/en/explore/valle-verzasca

Locarno to Interlaken Ost is a journey of 5.5 hours with a single change at Luzern if you choose that route. But you also have the option of going the other way, via Brig and Spiez, by taking the scenic Centovalli railway from Locarno to Domodossola. This is actually faster (4 h 10minutes to 4.5 hours) but has more changes on the way.

I just realized there is another option on Lago di Garda that could work out for you. This would be the town of Malcescine near the north end.

https://www.visitmalcesine.com/en

https://www.visitmalcesine.com/en/be-active

Monte Baldo rises from the lake right behind the town, offering beautiful hiking trails. You can either hike up or ride the cablecar up and hike from there:

https://360gardalife.com/en/territory/cable-car-malcesine-monte-baldo/

This part of Lago di Garda is not served by train, but you can arrange with your hotel for a shuttle to pick you up at the Roverto train station, about 45-60 minutes south of Bolzano. Then at the end of your stay, have them take you to the Verona train station to continue your journey into Switzerland. Or if you prefer, ride the ferry down the lake to Pesciera del Garda or Desenzano, and pick up the train there.

This is a destination we are considering adding to our September trip. We visited Malcescine 20 years ago, and I have been looking for a a chance to return ever since.

Jean, thank you so much for mentioning Hotel Elvezia on Isola Bella. Stresa may not work out for mica, due to the track closure issue, but we are traveling in late September when that should not be a problem. I have been thinking of making Stresa our overnight stop on our way to Verbania to join an HF Holidays hiking group. That hotel looks lovely; I just have to see how the ferry schedules work out.

And an aside—-Bergamo is back on our itinerary, due to the cancellation of our Abruzzo week with HF Holidays. I had booked Hotel Gombit (your recommendation for a splurge night) earlier but then realized it did not fit into our travels down to Naples for the Abruzzo week. Now that we are staying in Northern Italy I will have to see if we can get a reservation there; I just have to work out the dates.

Thank you Jean for the Stresa tips and Lola for the super helpful heads up on rail works that will be happening during our stay. That would not have been a fun surprise! I'm excited to check out some of your alternate routing suggestions Lola.

For now I've managed to secure accommodations in Ortisei and Murren that leave us with two flexible nights to get between the two places. It sounds like, track work aside, we'll have a number of great options for those two nights. Although now I really want to stay on the island recommended by you, Jean! :)

Thanks again for all of your thoughtful suggestions!

You did well to find lodging in Ortesei and Mürren for your dates. I am glad you did not drop Ortesei—-you should have great wildflowers during your stay. Be sure to take the Mont Seuc cablecar up to Alpe di Siusi one of your days there.

With 2 days to move from Ortesei to Mürren, Malcescine is definitely not an option. But the other places I mentioned will be right on your way. Locarno would be a good option for one of the nights, as you can leave open the 2 route options for getting to Mürren (via Luzern or Domodossola) until later.

I can suggest 2 hotels that are very close to the Locarno train station (which includes the humorously-named Locarno FART station from which the Centovalli railway departs to Domodossola). That is an acronym for Ferrovie Autolinee Regionale Ticinese.

https://showmethejourney.com/travel-info-and-tips/fart-ferrovie-autolinee-regionali-ticinesi-centovalli-express/

Geranio au Lac is right on the lakefront on the south side of the station; Hotel Piccolo is back a bit from the water, but seems to get great reviews on the booking.com website (take a look there but you should book directly with the hotel you choose).

One quick follow-up question if you don't mind Lola or Jean (or anyone else!). If we were up for an adventure, would it be possible to take the train from Bolzano Bozen as far as Arona and then ferry up to Stresa? Am I understanding correctly that it's just the roughly 12 mile stretch of track between Arona and Stresa that will be closed? I had somewhat latched on to the idea of Stresa because it allows us to have one longer travel day (under 6ish hrs it would seem?) and then on from Stresa would be a shorter travel day (3ish hours). I'm sure there are any number of reasons why this would be ill advised, which is why I'm so grateful to have the advice of you all!

That would be a good route under normal circumstances. Right now, the schedules available are not showing trains running past Milano Centrale—-so not to Arona. I did see some information on the track closure suggesting that the bus link will be from Milano Centrale to Domodossola, with no trains between Milano and Arona. But I have not been able to confirm that, as the bus link schedule has not been posted yet.

Some of the knowledgeable people on the forum have said that there will definitely be a bus link, but the schedule may not be posted until June, when the new schedules are listed.

You might look at other options for getting from Milano to either Arona or Stresa, such as a private transfer. That is what I did last September, when our family of 8 needed to get past a track closure between Brescia and Verona. I quite honestly did not see how the bus link on the schedule could possibly work to get all the people on the train onto buses for onward travel.

Hopefully someone with more knowledge and experience than I have with these issues will come along and help out with more information. Just remember that getting to Stresa is only half the problem. The trains may also be messed up going north from there to Domodossola. You won’t know until they publish the schedule for the replacement service.

Maybe you could take the Malpensa Express from Milano Centrale to the airport, and the SAF bus from there directly to Stresa. You need to make reservations for the bus.

https://www.safduemila.com/linee/alibus-malpensa-lago-maggiore/

But if the schedules do not line up with each other well it would make for a long day from Ortesei.

Here is the information from the Swiss SBB website on the planned closure. It says no EC trains running between Domodossola and Milan, but there will be replacement bus service. I have assumed that means the bus service runs from Domodossola to Milan, covering much more than the closed section between Stresa and Arona. But that is just my impression, not fact.

https://www.sbb.ch/en/travel-information/rail-traffic-information/timetable-change/europe.html

They don’t say anything about service between Domodossola and Stresa with regional trains, and I have not found anything about that online.

Wow! Thanks so much Lola and Sasha. I hadn't even considered all the complexities of regional trains vs express trains vs replacement buses. Really appreciate your help explaining and offering potential alternatives. Never would have thought I'd be on pins and needles waiting for a train schedule to be released! :) Perhaps I'll just look broadly in Varenna, Stresa, Lugano, and Locarno for accommodation and pick my favorite - letting the train transfers fall where they may. Can't thank you enough for flagging this track closure for me - annoying though it may be, it's much less annoying knowing about it in advance than it would have been being surprised by it!

It may indeed come down to where you can find a hotel you like, with a triple room available. I suspect it may be difficult in Varenna, which is a tiny town with few hotels, and very popular. And the Bernina Express route is the longest one of the three, because there is no direct connection between the Dolomites area and Tirano (except maybe by bus). You have to go from Bolzano to Milan, and then go way to the east to reach Tirano, and then back west after the Bernina Pass to reach the Berner Oberland and Mürren.

You can see all three routes on this Swiss rail map, with 2 of them (the Bernina Express and the Gotthard route) highlighted:

https://www.mystsnet.com/en/download/swiss-travel-system-map-en-2023/?wpdmdl=14294&masterkey=63a023c8da36c

And if you really like Stresa and the route via Brig and Spiez instead of the Gotthard Pass route to Luzern, you might consider booking a private transfer from Stresa to Domodossola. You can find out the cost of this by submitting a request on this website, which I used with good results for our trip last September.:

https://www.findtransfers.com/

It is a UK company that works with local transport services to find a reliable private driver to meet your request. They will send you the bids from the companies, together with the website, etc. so you can “vet” them. There is no obligation to book with any of them. It is just a good way to find out the cost should you decide to do that.

This way you can wait til June and see what the actual train/bus schedule looks like, and decide if that will work out for you. If it doesn’t, and you still want to visit Stresa, you will have the option of booking the private transfer.

You all have been so helpful! There is no way I would have pulled off booking our trip this late in the game without all of your shared wisdom, so thank you again.

Given Lola's incredibly useful update on the pending rail closure between Milan and Domodossola, we were able to shift and rearrange a bit in a way that allows us to avoid that area entirely. Here's what I now have booked. Would love to know if you see any red flags in this plan:

• Arrive Milan 7:30AM, train to Como, pick up rental car
• 3 nights in lovely looking mountain village of Schignano in an Airbnb that gives us gorgeous views of Lake Como but is removed from the hustle and bustle (location necessitates short car rental, but we've decided the views are worth it)
• 2 nights Trieste
• 5 nights Padova
• 4 nights Ortisei
• 2 nights in transit to BO
• 4 nights Murren
• 1 night Lucerne
• Fly home out of Zurich early evening

The last bit I have to sort out is the 2 nights in transit from Ortisei to Murren. It looks like we have a couple of options. The most direct seems to be to travel north out of Bolzano/Bozen and through Innsbruck and Lucerne. But if it's a more scenic/interesting option, we could also travel back toward the lakes region and through Lugano and Locarno onto Lurcern via the Gotthard Pass route, breaking the journey up somewhere along the way. Any thoughts on which would be the more interesting route to take and recommendations for where, along the way, you'd use the extra two nights? I have requests in to both our Ortisei and Murren accommodations to let us know if an extra night opens up. We'd love to spend more time in either area if accommodations allow, but I'm not optimistic.

Thanks again! We are getting so excited for our trip!

Well you don’t have any lake time in the new itinerary so I suggest you go via Lugano or Locarno and Lucerne. It is more scenic. The other way through Austria is faster because the tracks are strayer and the terrain flatter. Some of it is through tunnels under the mountains. You could spend night in Lugano or Locarno and the other in Lucerne. Or both in Lugano.

While I love the Dolomites, if I had the choice of adding another night in either Ortisei or Muerren, I’d put the extra night in Muerren.

I might add a night to Lucerne, just to relax and “unwind” before the flight home.