new identification rules

We stayed in five different Italian AirBnBs this summer. In each case we were met in person by our host or their representative. So this seems to have been foreseen by hosts already.

I read it this morning on "La Nazione".

The hotel lobby strikes again.

But the final goal is the banning of all rental apps.

I think this is a good thing.
I would never rent an apartment with just a lockbox, too many things to go wrong.
I prefer to meet the owner in person and I/we have met some wonderful hosts.

In Paris and London there seem to be lots of different apart-hotels with reception desks as in a hotel….is there such a thing in Italy?
I haven’t heard of any, but haven’t actually looked.
Perhaps they will become more apparent as single vac rental apartments disappear.

How likely is it these orders will be enforced everywhere, especially in the south? I’m thinking apartment owners who have a connection to the police officials may get special treatment, or maybe they just have to hire a neighbor to check the guests in.

We have stayed in the same apartments in Rome since 2010. We are always met at the apartment by the owner/manager and we give her the requested copies of our passports.

In Paris and London there seem to be lots of different apart-hotels
with reception desks as in a hotel….is there such a thing in Italy?

I have on a couple occasions stayed in an apartment arranged by a hotel, in Campania and Marche.
Though not exactly the same thing, the "albergo diffuso" system already in place in some locations could make Italy well equipped to have more of this type of stay.

In the last several years I have stayed at many Airbnbs in Italy and being met by the host upon check-in has been the norm. I can think of only one exception (Sorrento). I really appreciate it too as sometimes it's important to learn how to use the washing machine! Hosts usually have lots of great tips about the neighborhood, restaurants, etc. and I have met so many kind and gracious Italians this way.

I've stayed at a hotel in Rome, called Numa Tullo (via della Cisterna), where the check in is totally virtual and you enter the building and the room by entering a numeric code in a digital pad. No interaction with humans.

This is just another fascist regulation (it was enacted in the year 1931, during the Mussolini's regime, then renewed over and over again for anti-terrorist reasons), which is now used as an excuse to protect the hotel lobby, but which will be very difficult to enforce. I know that recently in Italian newspapers there have been complains about the 'key boxes' hanging at the doors, with actual keys inside, but there is no way they can prevent people from entering an apartment by using a code. Lots of places have a digital entry mechanism rather than an actual key since an actual key can easily be duplicated and the owner of the lodging would need to change the lock each time. Also how can the Questura (Police Headquarters) enforce the requirement that the guest is positively identified in person? Does it mean that when traveling on a group of 100+ tourists each traveler must present the passport individually to the hotel desk and the hotel desk must verify the identity of the person? Do they plan to have a Carabiniere in the lobby of every hotel and apartment?

Mr. E, SJ is offering up her opinion/preference similarly to how most other participants here do on a range of topics, including ones that may involve local laws (or not):)

With this new law if you rent Airbnb you will now be required to
register at local police stations in person.

The above is not true.
Nobody will need to go the police station to register in person.

The Circular from the Ministry of the Interior (a Ministerial clarification) says that the self check-in process done remotely, where a guest transmits the documents digitally (like via email) to the host, and is then permitted entry to the premises or the key box by a digital code transmitted by the host without any human interaction with the host (or agent of the host) does not comply with the current regulations set forth by the law which require hosts to rent the premises only to persons with an identity document and to communicate the identity data to the Questura (police headquarters) with jurisdiction on the premises within 24 hours.

The Ministerial Circular also provides that the "automated remote management of the check-in process as well as the entry into the premises without the guests' identification "de visu" (by his/her own eyes) by the host does not prevent the risk that the premises may be occupied by one or more individuals whose identity may remain unknown to the authorities, therefore causing a potential danger for the safety and security of the community".

As such, based on the provisions of the above "clarification", you won't be able to check in into a rental place, like I did in Rome last summer, by simply using a code or QR code sent to your phone by the rental company and then use that code to enter the apartment, but rather the host (or an agent of the host) will need to come to you "in person", and verify with his own eyes (de visu) the identities of all guests who will be inhabiting the rental premises and then give you the code to enter.

The above is clearly an example of Government bureaucratic "B.S." overreach which, in the year 2024, uses the King's Decree no. 773, art. 109, of 18 June 1931, signed by the then Prime Minister and Minister of the Interior Benito Amilcare Andrea Mussolini (this was his full name), to give apartment renters a hard time for the only purpose to protect the hotel lobby from competition. We are in the XXI century, and I am able to interact with the Italian Government remotely from 6000 miles away, but if one opens a rental apartment with a QR code sent remotely sent by the host, the guest may present a "danger" to the safety of the community. Go figure!

Don’t think I said anything about a law Mr E., just that I prefer to meet owners and hosts in person.
In countries foreign to me there are lots of things that are better told to guests in person….like how a washer works as someone else said!

Does it mean that when traveling on a group of 100+ tourists each traveler must present the passport individually to the hotel desk and the hotel desk must verify the identity of the person?

Yes, it is.
When you arrive with a group of 100 people at the hotel everybody must be registered, recording name, nationality and ID/passport number. And some hotels now record even the credit card number at the check-in, at least one for each room.
Has never been different.
To speed up the process, if the group is travelling through a tour operator, all the documents are collected before and sent directly to the hotel. One person, usually the tour leader, is identified taking the document in person.

B&B in Italy are an easy business and pay much less taxes than hotels, but because has been thought has a system to help families to have a "second job", hosting people in an empty room of your house. B&B are now mostly business of big companies managing hundreds or sometimes even thousands of apartments around cities. That are the ones who are complaining for the new law! Because the most of private owners prefer to meet in person, as previous writers noted.
This big business is not a B&B, this is an Apart-hotel or an "Albergo diffuso". Both are legal and exist in Italy (someone are really wonderful), but they are managed like a normal hotel and they have to fulfill all the hotel requirements: meaning more costs and jobs inside the rooms. In fact, when you go into that kind of places you usually do a normal check-in in a lobby like in a normal hotel, then you are leaded to your room maybe one kilometer far.

Don’t think I said anything about a law Mr E., just that I prefer to
meet owners and hosts in person. In countries foreign to me there are
lots of things that are better told to guests in person….like how a
washer works as someone else said!

S.J., I actually agree with you 100%. I wont rent a place unless I get greeted. Well to be honest, I very, very, very rarely rent an airbnb. I like hotels.

Living in a tourist city I dont like the lock boxes hanging everywhere. Unsightly. If someone were to suggest legislation that got those off the fronts of buildings and put them on the door of the flat being rented, that would be great. Or even to put them in the entry hall ........ or even outside if it were more like mailboxes. Hopefully in time these get replaced with electronic locks with rotating combinations that are updated from the flat wifi. I did stay in one of those in Mexico City a few years ago. Still prefer being met though. I think its better business from both perspectives. The flat owner gets to see who is coming in and the person coming in gets the rules and advice and meets somwe

I wonder if landlords who rent by the night with lock boxes and no guest contact also don’t pay as much attention to the condition of the property or the behavior of the guests. The new ID requirements will force them to either start meeting the guests (or hire someone to do so) or stop renting the property, which could improve the overall quality of the neighborhood and thus benefit the public.

The new ID requirements will force them to either start meeting the
guests (or hire someone to do so) or stop renting the property, which
could improve the overall quality of the neighborhood and thus benefit
the public.

Yes, that and laws requiring 1 waiter for each 8 tables so our experience in restaurants would be better. So what if a certain level of tourist gets priced out of the market. That takes care of over tourism, for the benefit of the public, ... in many places before it even happens.

Or we could all just rely on reviews and ratings and make a personal choice to rent from those that provide meet and greet if that gives you a better feeling (does for me ... generally my choice).

Meh, I've had personal check-ins and impersonal check-ins for 20+ years, and I see no difference really. It is nice to meet local folks (sometimes), but otherwise it really comes down to what people want to put into it--photos and reviews usually indicate that before a deposit in made. I have really appreciated the consideration to my time given by digital registration and contactless check-in since the pandemic. I guess we'll just have to see how this all shakes out.
If it is "overtourism" as an excuse, I thinks it's bollocks. That would necessitate in a reduction in people, not accommodations, wouldn't it? If it has something to do with real estate prices, then it is much more complicated than removing a lock box can solve.

But if I stay with a relative at their house, am I a danger to the community or will the relative have to report my identity data to the Questura within 24 hours?

If the issue is that they don't pay adequate taxes compared to hotels, then raise (and enforce) the payment of taxes. But using a Royal Decree of 1931 to ban modern entry systems is ridiculous and obviously a stratagem to protect the hotel lobby from competition.

I was discussing this new 'Ministerial clarification' with some Italians in Italy and they can't believe when I tell them that when I check into a hotel in the US all I have to produce is a credit card and not a photo ID. Some of them even assert that a photo ID is required in US hotels (at least in their experience).

Do you have to produce a photo ID to the hotel desk when you check in? I don't remember I ever had to produce more than a credit card to the hotel desk? And often my wife even waits in the car while I do the check in, so they don't even know what she looks like. Maybe in some States it's required but not where I've been.

But if I stay with a relative at their house, am I a danger to the community or will the relative have to report my identity data to the Questura within 24 hours?

You are completely out of topic. If your relative have a B&B in your house and you pay for the service, yes: you must be identified and your hosting must be transmitted to the police HD.
BTW: is a metter often discussed: https://community.withairbnb.com/t5/Supporto/Ospitare-gratuitamente-amici-o-parenti/m-p/1547985

To clarify: is not a new law or decree what has been released siome days ago. Simply a letter, a clarification of how the check-in must be managed.
And the reference is the Law known as TULPS, article 109.
Think that for years has been done manually! Nowadays (since 2013) fortunately the Police has a website and everything is almost automatic. You can find all the reference laws here, in the official website: https://alloggiatiweb.poliziadistato.it/PortaleAlloggiati/

And often my wife even waits in the car while I do the check in, so they don't even know what she looks like.

The identification is done in person for one person per room or one for the family.

The new ID requirements will force them to either start meeting the guests (or hire someone to do so) or stop renting the property, which could improve the overall quality of the neighborhood and thus benefit the public.

No, is exactly the opposite: who are doing a remote check-in not meeting in person are doing a law infringement! And they have did it since years. Is the same metter of guides who work without paying taxes only on tipping. Are cheaper? Yes, of course. But is a really unfair behavior against everybody is following the rules. And in fact fortunately in Italy a lot of B&B owners are honest (as the most of writers told before) because they meet their guests.

So what if a certain level of tourist gets priced out of the market.

Is long discussion: better few tourists who can pay a lot or several tourists on a budget?
And you prefer visit cities crowded by hoard of tourists and no locals or cities lively and crowded by locals with few tourists?
If you read some other thread on this forum you note how many people more prefer place with less tourists, to avoid Rome next year for Jubilee, to avoid Venice that is a tourist trap and so on.

If you read some other thread on this forum you note how many people
more prefer place with less tourists, to avoid Rome next year for
Jubilee, to avoid Venice that is a tourist trap and so on.

Oh, Jubilee would be a great time to go and be part of the event. Thats a nearly a lifetime one-off experience.

I was discussing this new 'Ministerial clarification' with some
Italians in Italy and they can't believe when I tell them that when I
check into a hotel in the US all I have to produce is a credit card
and not a photo ID. Some of them even assert that a photo ID is
required in US hotels (at least in their experience).

It may be a more recent thing but I have been asked to produce a legal ID (driver's license) when checking to U.S. hotels I've booked online or through an OTA (booking.com).

As well, apartments in the U.S. rented online through their management company's website or an OTA have required emailing an image of my DL in advance if check-in is via emailed entry code. Among other reasons, it could be to check my age against the name I've booked under. I understand that people have also been asked to supply the names of all of the individuals who will occupy the property and their ages although I'm thinking it would be very easy to over-occupy a unit unless a host monitors entry-door security cameras?

Kathy, I can recall being asked in the US, I can recall not being asked. Sometimes it might be a hotel requirement, sometimes the city and sometimes the state. But as far as I know, no national law (but I could be wrong).

You really want to blow their mind, tell them that the US has no national or state (pretty sure) ID card that is mandated by law. They just can not wrap their heads around that concept. Here in Hungary a citizen MUST have a national identification card and ..... ready for this ..... a national place of living card. Yes, you must register where you live. Imagine that in the US. The address card gets asked for as much as does the national ID (I have to have my US passport for the national ID). You can not even get a telephone here without an address card. Oh, yes, then there is the national health care plan ID card. So three Federal Identification Card in their wallet at any given time.

Right. I don't know as the ID request is a law versus hotel policy either, Mr. E. Or a state-by-state thing? I've never done a deep dive on the thing as, well, it's just a minor formality and not World Peace. :O)

I've heard that our friends across the ponds scratch their heads over our lack of National ID cards. That said, my mother was visually impaired so didn't have a DL but did have a legally issued ID to use when one was necessary.

But she choose to get one and was not mandated to.

I travel a lot for work and pleasure throughout the US but I don’t recall having to produce anything more than my credit card at check in. And this in spite of the fact that my credit card does not bear my signature but in lieu of it I’ve written :”Photo ID required”. I don’t rent apartments much and when I do my wife takes care of that and I don’t know what she sends via email to VRBO or AirBnB.

Ricky.
The art 109 of the Testo Unico di Pubblica Sicurezza is part of the Royal Decree 773 of 1931, it is not a separate law. That is where that requirement comes from. A “Testo Unico” in the Italian public law is a Collection of norms, decrees, laws, and their amendments which discipline a specific area of the law. You can see the entire legislative documentation in the portal of the Presidency of the Council of Ministers below (scroll down to art. 109).
https://www.normattiva.it/uri-res/N2Ls?urn:nir:stato:regio.decreto:1931-06-18;773

The point I am making is that Ministerial Circular does not increase the security of the Nation one bit. If the legal requirement is that the guests’ identity documentation must be communicated to the Questura within 24 hours from check in, that is accomplished by sending that documentation digitally as it is done today. The requirement of in person verification is a requirement that is totally unnecessary and which the Italian government agencies do not require not even in many interactions with the Public Administration. I’ve sent plenty of documentation related to my identity via digital means to the Tribunal of Florence, the Tribunal of Arezzo, the Agenzia delle Entrate, etc. without need to show up in person to a government official to verify my identity. It is also doubtful that someone checking a guest’s identity in person would even remember whom they checked. Therefore for all practical purposes the requirement that the document be handed in person rather than via email is a bureaucratic burden that has no reason to exist. The objective of communicating the identity of the guest to the authority is accomplished just as well without in person interaction.

The requirement of in person verification is a requirement that is totally unnecessary

Doesn't matter if is necessary or not: is required by law. Owners or hotels, B&B, flat rental who are not doing that are simply doing a law infringement.
Even ask for a digital invoice is unnecessary. Why as a guide I cannot do my job receiving only a tip at the end of the tour, paid cash? Probably my services will be cheaper than a legal guide, because maybe I could forget sometime to fiscally declare every tip I received... Cash cannot be demonstrated where arrived.

I’ve sent plenty of documentation related to my identity via digital means

Again you're OT, but when you create you digital ID you have been in person with you paper ID in an authorized office (post office maybe? The Townhall, the ASL?). They certified you in person were the person who require your digital ID and now you have a certified digital ID, and no more you need to go in person.

If the legal requirement is that the guests’ identity documentation must be communicated to the Questura within 24 hours from check in

Not only. Don't quote only Comma.3, but even Comma.1: "I gestori di esercizi alberghieri e di altre strutture ricettive, [...] possono dare alloggio esclusivamente a persone munite della carta d'identità o di altro documento idoneo ad attestarne l'identità secondo le norme vigenti."
The verification of the ID has been mandatory in Italy since one hundred years. Why suddenly become a problem? Only because few big rental agencies want to make more money not respecting the laws? I know that is cheaper and easier not respecting all laws, but the right way is change the law, not that everybody could be a criminal about what is good for himself.

Yes, most European countries require National ID cards. My husband’s states, ‘Citizen living Abroad’ with his NY address on it. This is in Croatia. He has to renew it every few years. They are issued at the police station.

Even in the US, I have to show ID when checking into a hotel. They may want to be sure I’m not paying with a stolen credit card. For houses or apartments I think it depends on the location. In Panama City, FL almost all the rentals require a person age 25 or older to sign taking responsibility and reside at the rental the whole time. They have to submit the name and age of every person who will be there. The landlord has the right to make a surprise inspection and if there are people under 25 there without the responsible person they can evict everyone on the spot with no refund! But that area has a history of young people holding wild parties and damaging the property so it makes sense that landlords want to protect their property.

johnt:
then it must be a local or State law, because in most hotels I go on business (primarily California, now but in the past in all western States) I don't remember having to show my drivers' license. Or maybe it's because a lot of hotels don't comply with the laws if such laws exist in California.
The last time I was in Florida was at a conference at the Marriott World Center in Orlando but I don't remember if I had to provide an ID. For sure my wife, who joined me at the end of the conference for the weekend, didn't have to show anything to anybody, and they gave me a second digital card key for her with no problem. I'll pay attention next time I go to a hotel for business or for pleasure.

But she choose to get one and was not mandated to

Mr, E, you were referencing my mom's ID, right? She had to have it to fly plus some other stuff requiring an ID so I guess I'd call that 'mandated'.

Okay. Sorry.

What ever it is, and I am still confused as I think maybe two issues are being conflated; personal Greeting and Registering. But not my country so .... what ever they want is fine with me. What ever it is, if its too inconvenient or expensive it will impac the tourist business. Is that good or bad ... also up to the locals and I am in no posistion to judge or say right or wrong.

Folks---

To say I'm confused is an understatement...

What I want to know...because I have three AirBnB experiences coming up in April (Florence, Rome, Taormina in Sicily)...is...on arrival what will happen as opposed to what is supposed to happen as a result of this decree?

It is apparent that to adhere to the letter of the law per this decree is ludicrous because there aren't enough gendarmes to enforce it. Personally, I will request the owner--the person stated and shown in the AirBnB ad--make an appearance when we get there to show us around, etc. We will have passports and driver's licenses (for whatever good that is) to show the owner, but beyond that...anything else? From my last experience (Rome, 2017) when leaving we were asked to leave the key and lock the door behind us. We did not see the owner at all after our arrival.

Just came here to see if anyone else has posted about this and glad to see it's being discussed. See this Reddit post here and thought to share in the event it is relevant:

https://www.reddit.com/r/ItalyTravel/comments/1h4uuf8/new_rules_for_remote_checkin/?chainedPosts=t3_12z0d50

Jay. What you experienced in the past is what you will experience this time, according to the letter of the Ministerial Circular “clarifying” the intent of the art. 109 of the TULPS approved with the Royal Decree 773 of 1931.
Basically, the owner of the AirBnB (or its agent) will meet you personally at the property and give you access to the property, and probably show you the property and its amenities. I am sure that they will require you to send photocopies of all the passports ahead of time via email, however the Circular specifies that when the owner (agent) meets you at the property s/he will need to see and verify the actual passports, which I am sure you will have with you anyhow, Obviously, there will be no Carabinieri agents with all of you at the property to verify that the owner actually checks the passports, therefore I’m sure s/he won’t give a damn to see it as long as s/he already has received the copies so that a/he can transmit the information to the Portal of the Polizia di Stato (the Questura is the actual building of the Polozia di Stato headquarters).

The new procedure will just impact properties, like the Numa hotel where I stayed in Trastevere, which is not really an apartment, but a real traditional hotel without people at the reception desk. Basically in that modern hotel where I stayed, you do your check in from the phone and you receive a code to access the building and your room, but there is no human interaction with anybody, except for (in my case) the Cuban chambermaid with whom we conversed. That type of hotel, or any apartment accommodations, where you check in through remote means (like a QR code) to give you access without an actual human looking at you or your passport, they will be impacted by the decree, because that business model is no longer permitted.