Hello my family of 4 (2 kids ages 17 and 20) will be flying in and out of malpensa in July. We will rent a car. My ideal itinerary would look like this:
2 nights in Chamonix or aosta area Or 2nd choice Lake Como;
2 nights cinque Terre then take a scenic route to Ferrara;
2 nights in Ferrara (staying with friends) leave the car there and take a train to Venice;
2 nights in Venice ( staying a 3rd night in Venice is not an option) return to Ferrara for car;
1 night at hotel near airport or maybe stressa if we could get to the airport in time for our 11 am flight.
Is this going to be to much driving? My main concern is the driving distances from airport to aosta. Also driving from aosta to cinque Terre. Our goal for these 4 days is alps, beautiful scenery, short hikes , gondola rides up the mountains, pretty villages and AVOIDING traffic jams (which I know won't be easy) and of course some beach time at ct. I had looked into the Dolomites in place of aosta or como but got the impression that the traffic for the route via Verona would be bad and to go the scenic routes through Switzerland to The Dolomites would be just as much driving as aosta to cinque Terre.
Another itinerary I have considered would be from airport to Bolzano to Venice to Ferrara to cinque Terre back to Malpensa. Again that would be 2 nights in each location.
Any advice would be appreciated. I am open to eliminating something if I have to.
Also not interested in Florence or museums although if we were up in Bolzano we would go see the iceman. I know our trip is fast paced but after Italy we fly to northern Ireland with 10 slow days of visiting my inlaws,so plenty of rest and relaxation then. Thanks in advance for any advice you can give.
Posted by
US Pacific Northwest
10344 posts
What is "too much driving" depends on the person. For you to research the driving times for yourself, go to www.viamichelin.com.
Of course the driving distances are road time only, doesn't consider stops or unusual traffic situations.
Posted by
OP
7 posts
Thanks. I have looked the driving times up but I understand that traffic can be very bad in July. I guess I am looking for some tips on what part of our itinerary might be too ambitious based in traffic and maybe recommendations on quieter routes or destinations in the area.
Posted by
US Pacific Northwest
10344 posts
There is one other important question: are you going to jump into the rental car after a trans-Atlantic flight: potentially dangerous because of the delayed reaction time caused by jet lag?
Posted by
OP
7 posts
Yes. We arrive at 9 am. My husband does not have a big problem with jet lag as he travels frequently and is able to sleep well on the plane. But you have a good point and that was why I was considering lake como which is closer than Chamonix or aosta. However if there is heavy traffic around the lake it might be just as easy to drive towards aosta which Michelin puts as a 2 hour 30 minute journey.
Posted by
US Pacific Northwest
10344 posts
Recent discussions here have revealed medical evidence showing that a driver getting into a rental car, after a trans-Atlantic flight, is driving impaired whether he realizes it or not. The driver may have slept well on the plane and feel fine, but his driving reaction times are similar to a driver impaired by alcohol or drugs.
Short drives may be ok, but long, tiring drives in an unfamiliar car and in unfamiliar terrain--you're pushing the luck of your loved ones. Safer to keep a drive as short as possible on the first day.
Posted by
US Pacific Northwest
10344 posts
Realistically, I don't think anyone here can predict traffic conditions in the future.
You will not know the traffic conditions until you actually get on the road, and if your first night's lodging leave you with a long drive, the time it takes will be something that none of us here, or you, can predict in advance.
Posted by
OP
7 posts
Ok. Well any comments on the itinerary? Aside from the first night? Thanks
Posted by
Forest Grove, OR
11316 posts
Yes, it is too much driving. You have a LOT of windshield time in this plan and a car is an unnecessary complication for much of this itinerary.
Milan to Varenna on Lake Como is 1 hour by train. You will get beautiful mountain scenery, easy transfer, and a great first stop. This is versus a 2-3 hour drive to Chamonix. A car at Lago di Como is not only not necessary it is a hindrance.
Varenna to the Cinque Terre is not easy. 4 hours more-or-less by train or car. But Courmayer to the Cinque Terre is also a 4 hour drive, minimum, longer by train ironically. A car for your proposed stay in the CT is also unncessary. It sits parked all day and the driving is tough.
Vernazza to Ferrara is another half day for you whether by car or train. Ferrara to Venezia is only 1h 23m by train. Yea! But why pay to park a car while in Venezia, especially when coming back through Ferrara will cost you time as well as the cost of having a car sit waiting for you? Venezia to Ferrara to Milano is 3.5 hours minimum plus a change form train to car. You can go directly Venezia to Milano via high-speed train in 2.5 hours.
I think you would have time to get your alpine fix in the Dolomites if you drop the Cinque Terre and Chamonix/Lake Como, concentrating your time to Milano and points east including your stops in Ferrara and Venezia.
Arrive Milan and go immediately to Verona by train; 1 night
Rent car and drive to Bolzano, see Otzi, then on to the Val Gardena. Spend 3 nights in Ortisei. You will be charmed. Take the gondola to the Alpe di Siusi, the funicular to Rasciesa, and more. We go tot eh Val Gardena every summer and although we do not drive there, we have never seen a traffic jam. Maybe Roberto can weigh in on what he sees as the traffic situation there.
Drive to Ferrara and dump the car; 2 nights with friends
Train to Venezia; 2 nights
Train to Milano; 1 night
Something to think about anyway.
Posted by
OP
7 posts
Thank you Laurel for great advice. Your second itinerary looks great and is something to think about although I am not 100% convinced that I am ready to give up on CT and the quick glimpse of Tuscany we will get on the ride up to ferrara.
Our reason for wanting the car is simply the cost. The car for 1 week is only 200 dollars and it looks like the train from Venice to Malpensa would be 50 -60 dollars a person, which in our case would be x 4. My itinerary idea more specifically would look like this if I eliminated chamonix.
Drive to lake como, park near our hotel in Varenna (there is a pay parking lot within walking distance)and take ferries for day 1 and part of day 2. Also on day 2 take the car and drive on the road towards st moritz to see alps. We wouldn't go as far as at motor though.
Day 3 drive to CT and park car at our hotel in Levanto and use ferries and trains to explore the area. Day 4 explore. Day 5 drive toward Pisa and then find a scenic route towards Ferrara. Then ferrara, Venice and airport. I have some hotels booked but with free cancellation so I am free to change this up based on suggestions. Does this still sound insane? I will spend some time looking at the Bolzano area as well.any thanks for your help!!!
Posted by
California 🦋
5211 posts
Smythfamily,
Laurel has given you excellent advice!
Here are some thoughts to consider:
if possible, you may be able to change your outbound flight out of Venice instead of backtracking to Milan.
most of your itinerary is composed of 2 nights in each of your desired destinations which will only give you one full day to explore said destination. So you may have 1.5 days to enjoy each destination.
you may experience jet lag upon arriving to Italy, so that first day may not be as productive as planned.
sometimes less is more when it comes to traveling. Less destinations = more time to enjoy & explore said destination.
the day you drive from Levanto to Ferrara will be a very long day & you will only have one full day to visit Ferrara.
Consider returning the car in Ferrara (avoid wasting time backtracking to pick up the car) then train to Venice then Venice to Milan.
You may take a 'Regionale Veloce' train from Ferrara to Venice for as little as €8.60pp ( 2nd class) & travel time will be about 1.5 hours.
Train from Venice to Milan may cost €19 pp if purchased in advance.
This is the official website for Italian Railways: http://www.trenitalia.com
Bottom line... this is your trip, make the best of it & enjoy!
Posted by
OP
7 posts
Thank you Priscilla! More great info. While I can't change our outgoing flights, I will def look into changing our car rental to drop off in Ferrara. That will give us a longer 2nd day in Venice. now I just have to figure out what area I am willing to skip to make this trip come together. I so appreciate your suggestions!
Posted by
California 🦋
5211 posts
Smythfamily,
You're most welcome!
I completely understand wanting to visit as many destinations as possible... "so much to see, so little time..."
My mom & have traveled to Varenna, CT & Venice.
On our last trip, we'd planned to visit Ferrara on our way back from Ravenna but decided to skip it because we were too tired.
Varenna is beautiful but I'd return to Monterosso (CT) any day now that I've visited both locations (on separate trips).
Cinque Terre is very picturesque & I loved visiting all the villages which you can easily do by train because they are less than 5 minutes away from each other & the trains travel frequently.
You can also hike while in the CT but since I was traveling with my elderly mother, we did not.
Monterosso has a nice (small) sandy beach & there are many restaurants too, and gelato, of course!
The sunsets were amazing too!
Here are some websites you may want to explore:
- http://www.cinqueterre.it/info.php
- http://www.parconazionale5terre.it/sentieri_parco.asp?id_lingue=2
- http://www.navigazionegolfodeipoeti.it/home.asp?lang=eng
- http://www.navlaghi.it/eng/c_illago.html
Varenna is beautiful but there is not much to do there. It's a good place to relax & enjoy the lovely scenery. You can take the ferry & visit the villages along the lake such as Bellagio (expensive shops), Menaggio, etc...
You or your children may rent kayaks & enjoy paddling around the lake.
Happy planning!
Posted by
Forest Grove, OR
11316 posts
A car in Italy for $200 for a week would be a miracle! Make certain that quote includes the mandatory comprehensive insurance coverage. Your U.S. policy will be of no use. On my first trip here I found a guide at Gemut.com that really helped me. Look for the Free Download on the right side of the page. It really helped me.
Posted by
OP
7 posts
Thank you Laurel and Priscilla for all of your help!!! So the car is actually 280.00. I have been using my cellphone and I guess I don't see that well :). I will call the rental company to confirm addit charges and the new drop off rate. We have travelled in Europe before with a car but until I went on these message boards I didn't realize how difficult car travel is in Italy.
I still haven't figured out a final itinerary but had another thought as now I am really torn about not going to the Dolomites. Would it make sense to go to lake Garda ( maybe malcesine) day 1 and 2 then Ferrara day 3 and 4 and then train to Venice 5 and 6, train back to Ferrara drive to CT 7 and 8 and day 9 head back to the airport to leave on day 10. According to Michelin the drive to malcesine is 3.5 hours and malcesine to Ferrara another 3. Is that itinerary as bad as my first? Can you count on Michelin times to be fairly accurate? There is just so much to see. I thought from lake Garda we could see some of the Dolomites on a short drive even I'd we dont go all the way to Bolzano. And of course if you think that I am crazy you can just tell me so :)