Need help w/ 14 day Italy itinerary

Brian,

Don't worry, you're far from the first one to post here saying you can't keep up with the pace of one of Rick's itineraries!

You have 14 days minus at least 1 (maybe more) for travel days, so let's say 12 or 13 days "on the ground" ready for a full day of sightseeing and fun.
Looking at Rick's itinerary, I count 11 destinations--in my opinion, 11 destinations is too manyfor 12 or 13 days on the ground. (Except for The Master, and he might have people helping him.)

Ok, so I'm already in trouble with the owner of this website, and maybe his staff too, who may disagree with what I've said so far.

Well anyway, let's go over a couple of initial thoughts:
I'm looking at the same itinerary you are.

For many 1st time visitors, Italy's Big 3 are the first priorities: Venice, Florence, and Rome.

You don't say whether you're planning on traveling 100% by car, 100% by train, or using both.
You're aware, right, that you don't even want a car in Rome. Even parking a car there is challenging.

Kind of a footnote, but eventually important:
The heat in Rome in late July will probably feel pretty, uhm, intense. Bring appropriate clothing for intensely hot weather.
And in planning for sight-seeing in Rome, many travelers know to allow for a slower pace, time for hydrating and cooling off.

If you can give us your reaction to this so far, we can go from there.
There are a lot of people here who know more about Italy than I do, and hopefully they will join in.

We definitely won't be renting a car. We'll be traveling only by train or bus if necessary. And we are flying to Venice from NY. Unfortunately the summer is our only option. My wife works in a school so the summer is the only time where she'll have enough days for a 2 week trip.

No problem, a lot of people have to go in the summer.
In my opinion, you already made one of the most important decisions, and made the right one, when you decided not to rent a car for this itinerary, whatever portion of it you do.
Again, this is just my opinion, but in Italy, if trains go there, I use them (assuming they serve a destination with regular service).

I would only use that tour as a suggestion of places you may want to visit. There is no reasonable way to see 11 places in 14 days. It doesn't make sense to even try it. Just looking at that itinerary makes me tired. That's the amazing race, not a vacation.

With two weeks you should pick 3 or 4 cities to base out of and make day trips if you wish. You can easily split the time between Venice, Florence and Rome and make a few days trips. This will give you plenty of time to see those cities and not be changing hotels every night. My day trip suggestions would be Siena, Pisa, Pompeii or Ostia Antica (but not all of them).

Donna

Instead of following RS itinerary, why not base your trip on YOUR interests? Are you into mountain hiking, go to the Dolomites. You like nothing better than to be lazy by a lake, Italy has 3 great big beautiful ones to choose from. If quaint little seaside villages are more your thing, choose between the Cinque Terre or the Amalfi coast. History buff, well... thats all over the place and you'd need a couple years to see it all. Great food and wine, while available everywhere, hits its peak in Tuscany as well as Bologna and Parma.

Keep in mind that no matter how long you have for your vacation, there is no way to see everything in Italy.

Brian, I have traveled extensively through Italy each year (and have lived in Florence and Rome). You are going to miss out on some of the best of the best cities by rushing along according to that itinerary. Here are the areas/cities I would go to:

Milan
Venice
Pisa
Florence
Siena
Naples/Pompei
Amalfi Coast
Rome

This way you can give more time to the most important places-Rome, Florence, and Venice- and not just get a glimpse. Also, I'd buy a Eurail one country railpass (www.eurail.com) and travel by train which is more fun, more scenic and less of a hassle than planes.

Even Terry Lynn's itinerary has a lot of stops. I think Donna got it right when she said to pick three or four places then take day trips if you feel compelled to wander about the country. Rick's tours can move faster because they have guides that arrange everything, know where to go, no orientation required.

For example if you have 13 nights

• Venezia: 3 nights is a good start with 2 full days on the ground

• Firenze, 5 nights with side trips to Siena (1 day) and perhaps Lucca or Pisa for a second, leaving you 2 full days for Firenze herself

• Roma, 5 nights, with a side trip possibilities to Ostia Antica and/or Tivoli and/or Orvieto.

I somewhat discount travel days between locations due to the time consumed by checking out, transferring, orienting to a new city, etc. Surely you can do something the day you arrive, but don't pack that day too full. If you leave Venezia mid-morning, you arrive Firenze around noon in time for checking-in (or at least dropping off luggage), having lunch and taking an orientation walk or maybe one museum during the heat of the afternoon.

Summer travel also begs a midday break. Get out early in the morning. Lots of vacationers don't emerge until 10:00. By then it's getting hot. Seize the day and leave by 8:00 to enjoy some cooler air and be among the first people at a site. You can start touring the Forum in Roma, for example, as early as 8:30. We often start our travel day in summer by rolling out the door before we even shower, well before 7:00, and take a walk to see the city waking up and searching for an espresso. Sometimes we just delay that shower until afternoon because you just need another one anyway after walking about in the heat. The mid-afternoon pausa is a blessing at any time of the year. Also, many museums are open late, so you "do something" later in the day when the crowds have thinned.

Another note: a train pass does not make sense in Italy. Buy point-to-point and buy in advance if you are certain of your travel days. You can save a lot of €€€ if you buy 120 days in advance at www.Trenitalia.com. Your day trip tickets can be purchased at the time of travel, i.e., Firenze to Siena by bus, Roma to Tivoli by regional train, etc.

Echoing the above that trying to shoehorn a three-week itinerary into two is far too much: it'll only leave you frustrated and spending much too much time getting from one place to another.

For a first-timers, choosing the "Big Three" (Venice, Florence and Rome) and taking a few day trips will allow you a lot more flexibility and ability to work around any potential complications which may arise. You'll also have more time to become better acclimated to each city's layout and transport systems, should you intend to use them, and not have to rush about from one attraction to another in a short time.

Something those of us who are passionate about Italy all seem to agree on is allowing some time to do nothing at all but pulling up a seat somewhere and enjoying the moment. For all the wonders there have been to see, those moments have been what my DH and I have found to be the most memorable!

I agree completely with Lauren and Kathy. The euralpass is a waste of money in Italy, and you still have to make and pay for reservations. Point-to-point tickets can be very cheap, especially if you can buy them up to 120 days ahead; your main journeys would be Venezia to Firenze and Firenze to Roma, maybe Roma to Napoli if you decide to keep that part of your itinerary. Your stations will be Venezia Santa Lucia, Firenze Santa Maria Novella, and Roma Termini, and Napoli Centrale. You need Italian station names to purchase tickets on Trenitalia's site, but you can translate the rest of the site into English by clicking on the British flag icon at the top of the page.

I am southern Italian by blood, and I love the south of Italy, but you may want to concentrate on Roma and north for the first trip (although a few days in Napoli/Amalfi Coast can be slipped in). You want your last night to be in the city you are flying out from, so keep your Roma days for the end if you plan to go to fly out form there..

Save some things for your second trip to Italy!

Hello, this is Brian's wife. Thank you for all your advice thus far.

Just to add a few questions since we are discussing cities to visit. I have not heard many mention of Cinque Terre. Based on the replies and our duration of travel, do you recommend this be one of the stops we remove from our itinerary and save for another trip?

Also, If we removed Cinque Terre, do you believe this is doable in the 14 days? We are flexible with our itinerary, we have yet to book our flights.

1. Venice
2. Sienna
3. Florence
4. Tuscany
5. Naples (not sure if we should remove as well)
6. Rome

Thank you!
--Shanna Goldman

Shanna,

Your revised itinerary is still ambitious allowing you only 2 nights in most stops. If you spent 2 nights in each of the 6 places, you'd have two nights left over to "spend" perhaps extending Roma and Firenze by a night each. Look at Siena, Firenze and "Tuscany" as a set: spend 5 nights in Firenze and use it to see Siena and some hill towns as well. Much less energy spent on relocating. And although I know it is a personal preference, Siena has nothing of Firenze. Our first trip I felt we "had" to stay in Siena because it was supposed to be so charming. We disagree with that view after staying there 3 nights. Firenze is much more charming and there's more to do if it rains. :-) Firenze has become a repeat for us while SIena is on the "seen it" list.

Drop Naples as an outlier (you should go to the Amalfi Coast/Sorrento instead anyway but make it a future trip). You don't see recommendations to go to the Cinque Terre because as lovely as it is, you don;t have time in two weeks unless you drop something else. Venezia and Roma are locked in due to your flights. They are your bookends. Fill the middle with a solid stay in Firenze. If you absolutely must see the Mediterranean, you can spend ALL DAY going to-and-from the CT while in Firenze.

On a final note, 5 nights in Rome will go by in a flash, but if you think you will be needing a day trip, Ostia or even Pompeii are possible.

I have a few "rules" that you might keep in mind for Italy travel:
1. Big cities (i.e. Rome, Florence, Venice) must get 3 nights MINIMUM (more if you plan some day trips). Small towns/cities must get 2 nights MINIMUM, or they are day trips. Avoid one-nighters if possible, except at the very start or end of a trip.
2. If you have both Cinque Terre and Sorrento/Amalfi coast on your itinerary, pick ONE. Cinque Terre needs 2 nights minimum, and Amalfi coast needs 3 nights or more.

3. If you want to see both Florence and Siena, pick the one that has the most things you plan to see to stay in, and day trip to the other. Its only 45 minutes away by bus.
4. If you want to see Orvieto it makes a lovely day trip from Rome if you have time. Dont stay in Orvieto unless you have a car to explore the countryside since it takes less than a day to see all the sights.

Great plan to fly into Venice and out of Rome. Still not clear if you have 13 nights on the ground or 14. Will assume 13 nights as that works out to what some people call 14 days. Have to agree with Laurel that 6 stops in 14 days is too much. That essentially gives you 1.5 days in each town with 1 or 2 days left to add to one of them. You will be so rushed you will not enjoy yourselves. Two nights is ok in small towns with no day trips planned but you are going to places with so many sights that it is just not enough time. We loved Naples but you should cut it from your plan as you will be flying out of Rome. How about: Venice-3 nights; Siena-3 nights; Florence-3 nights; Rome-4 nights. If you don't find enough to do in each of those towns you can take day trips. In Venice you can visit Burano and Murano islands; Siena, San Gimignano; Florence-Pisa &/or Luca; Rome, Ostia Antica.

It is understandable that after reading RS you want to see everything; I think we all feel that way. But to really appreciate and enjoy what you do see, you need to actually spend time there, not just rush through while thinking about your next train or bus. On our first trip to Italy we spent 17 nights - 5 in Siena, 5 in Florence, and 7 in Rome. We enjoyed each town and the only day trip we took was in Siena. We saw the sights (museums, churches, etc), enjoyed our meals and snacks, struck up conversations with other people both tourists and locals, and all without rushing through our day.

Every place mentioned is worthwhile to visit - but not if you just do a 'drive by'. Research the locations and, sorry to say, reduce your stops. Good luck with your planning!

Based on the cities you are interested in I would probably spend 4 nights in Venice, 5 nights in Florence with a day trip to Siena and another day trip driving around the area to some smaller villages and 5 nights in Rome with a day trip to Naples. This will allow you to see the cities you want to see without so many hotel changes. Siena is only an hour or so from Florence so it makes sense to do it as a day trip. If you want to spend more time in Siena I would drop Naples and spend two or 3 nights in Siena.

You could also spend the 5-6 nights in Siena and do day trips from there, including Florence as a day trip. You'll need a car to get around but you'll be able to visit a lot of smaller villages while you're there.

Donna

Personally, I think you are trying to see too many places and moving too much. You barely have time to enjoy each location. Tell yourself you will go back and see the rest "next time". As this is your first trip to Italy, leave enough time in each place to really enjoy it! The travel time between cities will eat at least a half day when you consider checking in and out of hotels plus train travel. I did a recent trip similar to yours time-wise as follows:

Day 1 depart US
Day 2 Arrive in Venice; check into hotel and wander around the city.
Day 3-4 Venice, Murano, Burano
Day 5 Morning in Venice, noon train to Florence, afternoon/evening Florence
Day 6-8 Florence - Can take Siena and other Tuscany day trips from here very easily
Day 9 Morning in Florence, afternoon train to Rome, evening in Rome
Day 10-13 Rome - can day trip to Ostia Antica, Orvieto, etc. but there's plenty to see in Rome itself.
Day 14 flight back to US

This itinerary allowed for a more leisurely pace. In summer heat, you will want to make sure you stay hydrated and just stop and soak up the scenery. I purchased the train tickets in advance between Venice/Florence (2 1/2 hours) and Florence/Rome (1 1/2 hours) and saved a lot of money. We traveled for 19 euros per person per leg by getting the super economy fare on Trenitalia 120 days in advance. Italo Treno also has good fares on the fast trains. Our hotels in Florence and Rome were in the middle of everything. We walked everywhere. Make sure you have a good pair of broken-in shoes! Good luck!

Brian & Shanna,

You've received lots of great suggestions so far, and I have a few to add as well.

To begin with, I agree with Kent that it would be a good idea to bin the "suggested itinerary* as that won't be the best method for your situation. Those itineraries may work for some people, but especially for a first trip to Italy, I'd suggest a "slower pace". Try to see the highlights this time, and as a famous travel writer has said, "assume you will return".

IMO, it would be prudent to skip Sorrento and points south for this trip. You have more than enough to see in the other areas and probably don't want to spend an inordinate amount of time viewing Italy through the windows of a train or bus. Also, the end of July / beginning of August is going to be hot and crowded so minimizing the number of hotel changes will probably be beneficial.

There are lots of possibilities, and perhaps something like this would work for you.....

• D1 - Flight to Italy
• D2 / N1 - Arrive VCE, check into hotel, light sightseeing
• D3 / N2 - Venice
• D4 / N3 - Venice
• D5 / N1 - Train to Florence (more on trains later)
• D6 / N2 - Florence (if you want to visit the Uffizi or Accademia, reservations highly advisable)
• D7 / N3 - Florence (day trip to Siena, Lucca or other places of interest)
• D8 / N4 - Florence or day trips
• D9 / N1 - Train to Cinque Terre
• D10 / N2 - Cinque Terre
• D11 / N1 - Train to Rome, some touring
• D12 / N2 - Rome or perhaps day trip to Orvieto or Ostia Antica
• D13 / N3 - Rome
• D14 - Return flight to U.S.

OPTIONAL - You could also visit the Cinque Terre on a day trip from Florence. It will be a long day, but especially at that time of year when it's dreadfully crowded there, that's certainly an option. You could skip the day trip to Siena and spend a couple of nights there and substitute that for the Cinque Terre.

I'd suggest getting hotel bookings SOON, especially for your stay in the C.T. (if you decide to stay there).

Two weeks is a VERY short time frame for seeing Italy, but it will give you a taste of the highlights. I'd recommend packing along a copy of the Italy 2015 guidebook as there's an enormous amount of information there, including hotels, restaurants, sightseeing, etc.

Regarding public transit in Italy, a short summary of a few important points......

• If you'll be traveling on the "faster" trains such as the Freccia high speed or InterCity, seat reservations are compulsory and you'll face hefty fines (collected on the spot) if you don't have valid reservations for the train you're riding on. The reservations are specific to train, date and departure time and can ONLY be used on the one train specified on the ticket.
• You can pre-purchase tickets for the "fast" trains online at considerable savings, however you must be willing to commit to a specific train, date and departure time. Also note that the cheapest Super Economy tickets are non-refundable and non changeable.
• For purchasing tickets online, you can use the Trenitalia website or Italiarail.com.
• On some routes you could also use the competing Italo high speed trains. However, in some cases these use different stations so it's important to consider that.
• I've always found second class to be quite adequate. If your budget will allow paying about 50% more, then first class is also an option.
• For travel on the Regionale trains, tickets can only be bought about seven days in advance of travel and it's best to purchase those when in Italy, as there are no price breaks. However, you MUST validate these prior to boarding the train on the day of travel or again, hefty fines!
• Validating tickets also applies to Buses and Metro in Rome and other places.
• If you haven't already, you may want to have a look at the excellent Man In Seat 61 website.

Good luck with your planning!

Stephen has sketched out what, in my opinion, is an ideal itinerary for the amount of time you have and the time of your trip; i.e., summer. Sight-seeing is so much more fatiguing in the intense heat you're likely to encounter than it would be in, say, October. Also, the crowds you have to deal with will slow you down and add to stress. You'll want to make time for lots of cold drink and gelato breaks. I'd just suggest adding Torcello to the day with Murano and Burano.

Lots of good advice above so I'm just throwing in my vote to cut Naples: it's just too far out of the way for a stay on the time you have, and it'll be beastly hot.

I'll go with Laurel's itinerary: 3 nights Venice; 5 nights Florence; 5 nights Rome.
Take a few day trips. The C.T. is very nice but it's going to be packed with tourists (and many hotels may already be booked) so I'd save that one for a return trip to Italy in the spring or fall. Yes, five nights in Rome (and Florence) will go by in a flash!

Thank you everyone for your suggestions. We have a lot to think about. Ken, can we ask you why you recommend Florence and then Cinque Terre? The book suggests Venice to Cinque Terre to Florence. Just checking to see if there was a reason on your sample itinerary. Thanks again

Shanna and Brian

Shanna and Brian,

It's more efficient and logical to travel Venice > Florence > Cinque Terre as that minimizes travel times (especially if travelling to Rome after that). Travelling from Venice to the Cinque Terre is pretty much a full day (six hours+), and then you have to "backtrack" to go back to Florence. The trip from Venice to Florence is only about two hours and from Florence to the Cinque Terre only about three hours, so that seems like a logical route. I'm not sure why the book would list that particular order, but it doesn't make any sense to me.

For the trip from the Cinque Terre to Rome, there are several direct trains from La Spezia Centrale to Rome every day via Freccia or InterCity trains, with a travel time of about 3.5H to Roma Termini. Connecting with one of those is the fastest way to get to Rome. Some of the direct departures you could use are......

• 08:17, arriving at 12:03
• 10:06, arriving at 14:33
• 13:14, arriving at 16:32

The trip from whichever C.T. town you're staying to La Spezia Centrale is only a few minutes. For example, the trip from Monterosso to La Spezia is between 15 and 35 minutes, depending on which train you connect with.