Need advice/help with train system... and a comment of appreciation

Rail passes rarely save you money over point-to-point tickets. Enter your itinerary at RailSaver.com to see which is best. Check schedules & fares online at Trenitalia: http://www.ferroviedellostato.it/ferrovie/util/inglese.jsp

The ride from Verona to Venice can take from 1h 14m to 2h 11m depending on train you take.

Have a great trip!

Robyn, I'll defer to Frank, Larry, and Sam on train expertise... they are far more knowledgeable than I! First, congrats on coming to Italy - Next, DON'T WORRY! After your first train ride (or maybe your second) you will be an EXPERT - and a CONVERT. Taking the train is one of the best ways to travel in Europe! We take the trains everywhere! You've made a courageous (and brilliant) decision to try the trains and the folks here will give you stellar advice!

Once you arrive you will see kiosks in many larger train stations that have a British flag on the top row. Touch screen that and all instructions, etc. will be in English! So even the language barrier is less of a barrier on the train!

There are many choices and if you do a search for TrenItalia on this board you can read about the different trains, classes of service, and types of tickets to buy. For the best deal, read up on the AMICA tickets. Buying them the day before (If they are available on your train) can save you 20% off the standard price. On some trains - especially local - know that these fares are not available and you'll have to buy a standard ticket. Also know that 2nd class tickets will be fine - especially for your short runs!

Again - congrats on coming over - YOU"LL LOVE IT! Now, I'll let the experts jump in with suggestions!!!

Ciao,
Ron

Here are a few sites on the web that will help you understand the ins and out of train travel in Europe:

http://www.ricksteves.com/plan/tips/tips_menu.htm (And look under the category "transportation.")

http://www.raileurope.com/us/rail/about_train_travel/index.htm (not necessarily plugging this site to buy tickets, just get info.)

http://goitaly.about.com/od/italytransportation/a/trains.htm

Sorry if they don't come out as HTML links. I don't know how to do that....if anyone here would like to PM me to tell me how its done, I'd appreciate it. (The last computer class I took was in Fortan and used punchcards. I think Grant was president.)

Added--thanks to those who PM'd with instructions...

My suggestion would be to stay in Venice for your first 5 nights and do a daytrip to Verona if you want. Venice is a spectacular sight.

First, I like Tim's suggestion to stay in Venice for 5 days and day trip to Verona. Venice is a bit more expensive but magical. (Second, thanks Ron for your comment above).

Next, you don't need a railpass in Italy for what you are planning. Most Americans are so unfamiliar with train systems that it seems so easy just to buy an expensive pass.

Next, learn your train categories. The R train is the local Regionale. It's the cheapest but usually takes longer. The Eurostar (ES) is the fastest but is the most expensive. These are trade offs to consider. For example, CLICK HERE to see a typical morning train schedule from Verona Porta Nuova to Venezia Santa Lucia. See the train categories? In this case, the R train, which costs 7Euro is almost as fast as the ESCity which costs 15.20Euro. If you have a pass and you ride any Eurostar train, you will pay a seat reservation supplement fee of 15Euro each way. That's double the R train fare for this journey.

Next, for your journey from Venice to Florence, the Eurostar costs 31.30Euro and the ICPlus train costs 21.50 Euro. The ICPlus train is 30 minutes slower. As Ron suggests above, buy your ticket in the Venice train station at the self-service machine. It's soooo easy. The machines will provide you with seat assignments as well. Try for the Amica fare wherever you can. This is a limited 20% dicount on train runs. Sometimes you can get them and sometimes you can't. CLICK HERE to see a typical morning schedule. Thre aren't as many ICPlus trains as Eurostars so you would have to choose carefully.

Next, from Florence to Lucca, Pisa and the CT will mostly be local R trains or IC trains. All very cheap. From Lucca to Rome, most runs will take you back to Florence on the R train and transfer you to a Eurostar to get to Rome. If you look carefully at the schedule that I'm about to link, you can see the rare ICPlus train that does not go through Florence but instead goes down the west coast to Civitavecchia and then into Rome. This run costs 29.80Euro. The runs via Florence on the Eurostar costs 41.00Euro.

CLICK HERE to see the schedule.

Don't fear the trains. As Ron says above, ride one once or twice and you're a pro with the Italian train system.

I think that trying to see Pisa and CT from Lucca will consume much of your two days in Lucca. I'd leave one day for Lucca itself. I'd skip Pisa unless I made it a stop on the way to Rome, just to see the tower. I finally saw the tower last year after several skips. I have to say it's worth seeing. But not at the cost of a day elsewhere.

Thanks so much for the info! Trenitalia's site seems a lot easier to figure out than the one I was on before.
What is the "Amica" fare? I know "amica" means "friend", but what does it mean as far as fares go?

Robyn, as the others have said, using the trains in Italy (or elsewhere) is usually quite easy and often the best way to get around.

You might find it really helpful to read Rick's "Rail Skills" section in Europe Through The Back Door. There's also lots of good information in the "Rail" section on this website, including a downloadable PDF Guide.

A few points to mention:

Be sure to validate your ticket in the yellow machines!

get used to the 24-hour time system, as that's what is used in Europe.

Note that some trains (usually the faster ICE trains) have compulsory reservations. You'll be assigned a Car (Carrozza) no., and a seat (Posti) no.

You'll need to note which track (Binario) no. your train is leaving from. Check the electronic boards in the stations.

These are all in Rick's Guides, but these are some of the main things I found.

I was just in Verona last month, and it's a wonderful city! Not sure if the Opera will still be on at that time, but there's lots to see anyway.

Be sure to wear your Money Belt, especially on the Metro in Rome. Check Rick's "Scams" section on the Graffiti wall to familiarize yourself with typical scams.

I certainly agree that the "tone" of the Helpline is usually polite, and the Posters here are very good at providing helfpul travel information.

Happy travels!

Robyn, the AMICA fare is a 20% discount fare. It is limited based on date, train category and train run. As soon as they sell out, they are gone. It's one reason why you want to buy tickets for future journeys as far ahead as you can. Sometimes you can get the discount and sometimes you can't.

You're getting lots of helpful comments so I'll just throw in my two cents worth.

First, if you go from Lucca to Pisa, take the bus, not the train. The bus will drop you off right next to the tower after a 45 minute ride. If instead you take the train to Pisa you have to take either a bus or a cab to get to the tower from the Pisa train station.

Second, Lucca is very charming and you shouldn't (my opinion) leave it to go to CT. You'll waste too much time on the train.

Third - stay in Venice proper (on the island itself) and do a daytrip to Verona, not the reverse. A daytrip into Venice puts you arriving and leaving there with the thousands of other tourists who are doing the same thing. The charm of Venice comes in the evening when the same places aren't wall-to-wall tourists. Use the day in Venice to go to the off-the-path places or to do daytrips out.

When you get to Italy, go to a travel agency and have them get the tickets for you. The most important thing that is easy to forget the first time you ride is to punch your ticket in the little yellow boxes mounted near the tracks. Big fine if you don't do that and you're caught. It's easy to forget because you'll be stressing out about which track to go to, where are your bags, etc. I suggest putting a post-it on the ticket itself to remind you to punch the dang thing.

And, deep breaths, you'll be fine.

Wonderful topic!

Literally, I was about to post the same thing! I'm trying to figure out the train travel and it is a little unerving to me.

This validating a ticket and choosing seats is just confusing; I guess I'm so used to riding the train into NYC...just buy the ticket at the platform and hop on!

Thank you for the replies, I'm definitley going to check those sites for the train schedule.

We are doing - in 10 days!!:
Rome -> Mantova -> Venice -> Ravenna -> Milan

we will have luggage, so it is better to get 1st class for the more room/less people?

Thank you, thank you, thank you!
Michele

Thanks for all the great advice! Just a note: we are staying in Verona because I know someone who lives there. I had also heard that Venice was more expensive than Verona to stay in, and the thought of hauling my luggage through the city didn't seem too appealing either. Maybe it sounds worse than it is?? Any thoughts on that subject, just out of curiosity? Thanks again!

Michelle, whether it's better to go first class for "more room / less people" is somewhat a matter of opinion. I suppose this will depend to a large extent on your budget? You indicated that you will "have luggage". I'm assuming that means you'll have a LOT of luggage? Even in first class I believe larger amounts of luggage will have to be stored in the racks at the end of the car, as they won't fit the overhead racks. Don't forget the important rule to "pack light"! My preference is to use second class when possible, in order to save money. I use a Backpack which easily fits the racks, and my Daypack sits either on an empty seat or on my Lap. I find that much easier, especially when getting on/off the trains.

Robyn, yes, I found Venice to be more expensive for lodgings than many of the other places I stayed. However, it's such a unique location that felt the cost was justified. I really enjoyed walking around at night after all the "cruise ship crowd" had left, just watching the people and the activity in Piazza San Marco, etc. As far as "hauling my luggage through the city", that's not a big problem if one is organized and takes the appropriate Vaporetto to an area close to their Hotel. Check Rick's book for the details. It's really not that difficult (although the day I arrived there was a Vaporetto "strike" so it was only possible to go as far as the Rialto Bridge - fortunately I had the map from Rick's book so it wasn't hard to walk from that location to my Hotel).

Happy travels to you both!

Sometimes 2nd class is standing-room-only in Italy. For that reason I would go 1st class when possible on the most popular runs (e.g. Milan to Venice). Even then 2nd class is ok if you get a reserved seat. Often, on the regional trains, 2nd class is fine, and may be the only class available. With p-p tix, you have a choice. When buying a railpass, it might be worth it to buy 1st class.

Ken: my luggage is just my carry-on (over the shoulder) and a suitcase that is one size bigger than a carry-on with wheels.

My first long train trip is from Rome to Mantova (6 hours, I think) and I just trying to figure which way is the least stressful. Between buying the ticket, validating, getting luggage, crowdiness....sigh.

My budget is not large but it can fit one 1st class train. Are Amica fare available for first class as well?

Robyn

At the risk of being redundant, I agree with almost everything said above. There are two points that I will add....

Don't skip the CT, especially Vernazza, and take the time to hike between Monterosso and Riomaggorie, a view that is spectacular. Don't worry about getting tired. There are lots of places to rest, three towns in between to eat, drink wine, browse, and just relax. Didn't make it to Lucca, but it can't be any better than the CT.

Second, there are pros and cons about the railpass and individual tickets. I took my wife and her mother for ten days and we had a saverpass, or one first class ticket for all of us. There is a certain serenity to having unlimited train travel for a certain number of days, and at times we witnesed long lines to get tickets and information (same line) at stations in Rome, Florence and Milan. Regardless of your choice, climb the 428 steps to the top of The Duomo in Florence, and take your camera. Best view of Tuscany anywhere. Good Luck.

Jim