Moving to Umbria next year

Hopefully some of this forum's Italian members can help. Not sure any Americans can help except expats on here living in Italy. Happy Retirement.

I visited Orvieto over Christmas four years ago, and loved it. It was a fair bit livelier than I expected for that time of year. One particularly sweet memory I have is on Christmas Eve on the piazza surrounding the Duomo - there were lots of light displays with projected images, and one was gold stars on a blue background that appeared to be running over the pavement. Parents had brought their toddlers to see, and the little ones were running around chasing the stars.

Hai parenti o amici in quella zona?
As we get old that is an important thing to consider.

Also living outside of a city requires driving, as public transportation is not ideal.
Do you still have your Italian drivers' license? I didn't know I could renew it at the consulate, but now it's too late as it has expired over 5 years ago (the limit to renew at the Italian Consulate for Italians living abroad). If you don't have it anymore, your California DL + the IDP will cover you for one year, after which an Italian resident will need an Italian DL. That means having to retake the test (and believe me, it's not that easy like in the US, it requires studying).

Please also consider all tax consequences as well. Taxation in Italy is much higher than in the US, including high tax California. Your income tax alone will be approximately double of what you pay in California. So for example a single person with an income of $60,000 (50,000 Eur) in California should expect to pay approximately $8500 in federal + state income taxes in California, but with the same income, the income tax in Italy for a single person will be almost Eur 16,000 ($19,000).

Ciao Roberto,
Grazie mille del tuo messaggio. Rispondo alle tue domande. No, non ho amici o parenti in Umbria. Ho un fratello che abita a Roma ed e’ sposato. Ho anche alcuni amici nel Lazio. Dopo aver vissuto una vita in California, ritornare in Italia non sarà facile lo so, ma qui la vita è diventata tropo cara ed inoltre ho voglia di ritornare in Europa. Io purtroppo non riuscirei più a vivere in una città caotica, rumorosa dov’è niente funziona come Roma. Per questo infatti ho bisogno di vivere up in un posto dove ci siano persone di madre lingua inglese o anche nord europei, non importa. Si, lo so che dovrò prendere eventualmente la patente italiana e infatti sto pensando di cominciare a studiare il libretto da ora( chiederò a mio fratello di mandarmelo). Io verrò con il social security ed il mio non è tassabile qui in America e spero quindi che non lo sia neanche in Italia, ma non credo. Tu hai vissuto in America immagino. Vedo che scrivi bene L inglese e conosci le leggi. Se si, da quanto sei ritornato in Italia e come ti trovi? Le due regioni che sto considerando sono L Umbria e la Toscana., non ho ancora deciso. Ho sentito parlare molto di Orvieto e per questo sto orientandomi verso L Umbria. Alcuni mesi fa avevo guardato gli affitti a Cortona ma non c’è davvero niente disponibile. Forse appena fuori Cortona si può ancora trovare qualcosa ma non ho controllato. Apprezzo qualunque informazione o consiglio tu possa darmi al riguardo. Grazie mille e buona serata. Anna

Look for ex-pat pages on Facebook. They vary widely in membership and attitudes, but can have good detailed knowledge. Here are a couple https://www.facebook.com/groups/144784345569818 https://www.facebook.com/groups/1680487648881784

There’s an expat in Umbria, her name is Nelly.
I’ve sent her a PM to contact you.

Her post.

https://community.ricksteves.com/travel-forum/italy/most-beautiful-small-villages-of-italy

You can contact her by clicking on her name and sending her a PM. (Private message)

Thank you so much, Gerri. I appreciate that. I wait to hear from her.

anna, Roberto is originally from Florence, and lives in the Bay Area. He still has ties to Florence, but lives in California.

Thank you For your reply, Mike. I went to face book and asked to subscribe. Waiting for confirmation.

Hi Nigel, Thank you for clarifying that. I live in the Bay Area too. What a coincidence.

We lived in Verbania on Lago Maggiore for 2 1/2 years and moved back to the US a year ago.

I’d recommend joining a Facebook group “Americans Living in Italy”. I know there are multiple people living in Umbria that may be able to give you advice. Perugia might be a fun town, accessible by trains, and buses or rail from the train station up to town center.

Completely agree with Roberto on Italian taxes. But we are still going through sticker shock here in Monterey County. Lunch for two at a brew pub with drinks last week- $75 including tip and tax. Italy might have been €30. Round of drinks with appetizer- $45-50. Italy -€8-12. The cost of living seemed so much less in Italy.

Enjoy Italy.

Social Security benefits are taxable at the federal level if you have other sources of income or your income exceeds a certain threshold. I don’t know of any other circumstance where social security would not be taxed.
If you move to Italy, the US has a bilateral treaty with Italy to avoid double taxation. Private pensions and all other incomes are taxed by Italy. Public pensions like social security would be taxed by the US unless the tax person is also an Italian citizen, in which case it is taxed by Italy. American citizens living abroad are still required to file a tax return as the United States is one of the two countries in the world that taxes its citizens even if they don’t live in the country (the other one is Eritrea). It is important that you hire a tax professional in Italy, preferably knowledgeable of American tax laws. There are several in places with a substantial American expat presence, like Florence, Rome, Milan and the Veneto region.

Regarding choosing a place to live, in your shoes I would choose a place close to family and friends. Since they seem to be in Lazio, but you prefer not to be in Rome (I don’t blame you I wouldn’t live in Rome, or Florence, in retirement) I would consider the area near the Colli Albani (Castelli Romani), maybe Bracciano, or, if you can afford it, l’Olgiata. Fregene to Santa Marinella is also nice, but not too lively in winter. Orvieto is nice as well.

Tuscany has lots of US expats. In the 1980s the US Consul, whom I knew, told me the US Consulate in Florence had over 50,000 US expats under its jurisdiction (not including military personnel). British expats are plentiful too everywhere in Tuscany.

Healthcare is also a factor. The Italian National Health service is organized in regional districts (ASL). They like to have few hospitals, but very large by US standards, and they tend to be concentrated in provincial capitals, although there are also smaller community hospitals that serve major valleys. Living in rural communities makes it difficult to access hospitals. For major health needs you need to go to the provincial capital, or the regional capital. That is another reason why it is not a bad idea to stay sufficiently close to a city, such as Rome, although in a smaller town nearby. To me that is the best of both worlds.

Buona fortuna. Quando vado in pensione tra qualche anno ci faccio un pensierino anch’io.

Ciao Roberto, i do understand completely what you say and I thank you very much for all the informations you gave me. I do not know much about the legal aspect of things because I have not moved yet. I am definitely planning to call the SS. and see what they say. . My social security is small and it not taxable over here. I do not see why it should become taxable once I move over there.
I might still teach a little bit, but not enough that I have to pay taxes. Where did you get all the informations? Have you talked to a commercialista or the SS?
I am definitely planning to hire a tax professional once I am back in Italy. I know a couple of people with a dual citizenship like me who moved to Italy a couple of years ago. They get the social security from the US. and it is taxed by the US. because he gets maximum allowed, but this is not my case. One of these two people has an apartment in Italy and for that he is of course taxed by Italy.
The reason why I was thinking about Orvieto and not Frascati o i colli Albani is because things in Umbria work much better then in Lazio. I colli romani is Roma south and taking the raccordo anulare every time can be a pure nightmare. I go to Italy every single year and I always stay long enough to know that things over there do not work. When it comes to health insurance Lazio is a pure nightmare. I have spent in the past a fair amount of time in Italian hospitals and I know what I am talking about.
If you want to do a yearly mammogram as a prevention, you need to make the appointment at least nine or ten months ahead of time. I have taken it in Italy a couple of times and I know….
All my family lives in Italy and therefore I get most informations first hand.
Orvieto seems close enough to Rome to be able to hoop on the train in the morning and be back in Orvieto the same day. Olgiate can be quite expensive and I do not think I can afford it. Well, I will see if there is someone here where I can get also some info. Thanks again for taking your time e auguri anche a te. One step at the time like they say!

Each country has different income tax laws. Once you move to Italy, you become an Italian tax person and must pay the taxes according to their laws. If you were not an Italian citizen, but an American living in Italy, the bilateral treaty says that your public pension (social security) would be still taxed by the US according to US laws. But if one holds Italian citizenship, the public pension also becomes taxable by Italy. The US has certain tax exemptions for social security benefits, but those exemptions would not apply to Italian law. Enter your expected pension income in the calculator below, and see how much you will pay in Italy.
https://www.irpef.info/calcola-irpef-online