Moving to Orvieto area.

welcome to our little family.

Just to stem the flow of later comments - are your long stay visa and IDP all taken care of?

We have a regular contributor here who moved to Orvieto for a while - perhaps she will pipe up?

Susan, could you also clarify what you mean by "moving to"? That term is sometimes used interchangeably with "traveling to" so is this a permanent relocation or a temporary one just for a holiday? Also, could you tell us what your citizenship is?

A welcome to our RS family from me too.

I don’t know anybody in Orvieto but I can give you the top 3 websites for real estate (both purchase or long term rent). The rental homes displayed here are for long term rental, not for short term vacation like AirBnB.

www.immobiliare.it
www.casaclick.it
www.idealista.it

You can select a city, town, province, or even select from a map to do your searches.

Most importantly however you must be aware of the law regarding immigration to Italy.
Unless you are a citizen of the European Union, you just can’t move to Italy for periods above 90 days every 6 months.

If you are NOT a citizen of the European Union you must inquire about a long term visa for “elective residency” (RESIDENZA ELETTIVA) at the Italian Consulate with jurisdiction over where you live.

http://conssanfrancisco.esteri.it/consolato_sanfrancisco/resource/doc/2017/03/elective_residency_visas_-_sf_consulate.pdf

Hi Susan,

Perhaps Catherine's experience will help you along.

https://community.ricksteves.com/users/115354

Then? you can invite some of us to your cottage for a garden party! Just kidding....

I have not followed her since the beginning but caught a post of hers fairly recently. She says it's not easy (a lot of paperwork) and desire and perseverance to make it happen.

Thanks, everybody!
I am a U.S. citizen. This move is for one year or more, depending on how well i adapt.
How do I go about obtaining permission to stay more than 90 days? Are there any expats in Orvieto region?

Susan,

Catherine aka TexasGirl seems like she can answer a lot of your questions. It appears she spent about a year in Orvieto with her dog.

Maybe PM her? It seems like she was on the forum just a couple of days ago - so probably still forum active or at least browses?

If this move is successful, you'll be only one hour from Rome by train!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z6k0J15SRXQ < a taste of Orvieto!

Susan, this is the Catherine/Catarina we're talking about:

https://community.ricksteves.com/travel-forum/trip-reports/living-in-italia

Another interesting thread: posters Laurel and Karen also have experience with making a move to The Boot.
It can be done but it's not as easy as just picking up and going.

https://community.ricksteves.com/travel-forum/trip-reports/contemplating-moving-back-to-italia

Editing to add: oops! While I was searching for the thread linked above, Girasole kindly provided a link to Catherine's profile.

You'll need what I call a "long-stay visa"; I don't know the technical term for it. This article from the USAToday website may get you started. You should go find the nitty-gritty details on an Italian-government website immediately. Any other source may be incorrect, incomplete or out of date.

I met an Australian couple a few years ago who had jumped through the necessary hoops to get the visas. It took them either 3 or 4 visits to the Australian consulate, so it is not necessarily a simple process. However, you are ahead of many folks who come to the forum, hoping to spend extra time in Europe, because it is your intention to rent a property in one place. Traveling around without a fixed abode makes getting a visa much harder. I believe one of the documents you need to show up-front is a lease.

So you’re planning to move to Italy as a US citizen in two months and you haven’t even thought about the legalities behind this move? Amazing.

Hmm. If it's in two months, then gee, Susan, no magic there.

You're better off renting for a month or so (I think it was suggested above) to get the lay of the land, as one says.

If it's next year, then better get hoppin...lol

In just reading here and there, I think some of the biggest things you need to have secured are: proof of residency, a bank account satisfactory enough to not live off the Italian government, insurance.

Emily, yes. With apologies to the OP (Susan), with the some politicians in the US making such a fuss about illegal immigrants, it surprises me when every so often someone pops up on this forum thinking they can just move from the US to another country without needing any permission.

Susan, yes it is possible. What most countries are worried about from immigrants is jobs and load on services. You are not planning to work, but live off savings you are bringing into the country, which will make it easier. You will have to fill in forms and jump through hoops. Start by calling or visiting your nearest Italian consulate.
Expect to have to provide proof you have sufficient funds to live off, and have sufficient Health Insurance. They don't want you to be a burden on the Italian health system. This will take time, so the sooner you start the better.

Next issue - language. Do you speak Italian. If not start learning now. Being in a country as a tourist is one thing, hotel and restaurant staff mostly understand English. Living is another matter. Local shops require Italian. You will need to talk to utility companies (electricity, gas, water etc.). All forms, bills, letters, call centres if you have a problem will be Italian only.
Some of the forms you have to fill in to get your visa will be in Italian.
Think of all the conversations you need to have with strangers, and things you have to read, on an average day. Could you manage all those in Italian?

Finally, positive. I wish you success, I did it (not Italy, UK to Switzerland as an immigrant).

Yes, health insurance that's valid in Italy. Medicare will provide no coverage overseas.

We've given you a lot (too much, probably) to digest but as you're finding out, there's more than a bit to the process.

Additionally, you mentioned on your other now-deleted post that you've never been to Italy? Before you go jumping through the hoops a move will involve, it would be wise to go spend some quality time in Orvieto and Italy in general to see if how well you think you'd do long-term? I'd take the 90 days (or less) you're allowed as a tourist and do a test run before making a big commitment. That, BTW, would also involve health insurance beyond Medicare.

Editing to note deletion of the OP's second but slightly different post.

“With apologies to the OP (Susan), with the some politicians in the US making such a fuss about illegal immigrants, it surprises me when every so often someone pops up on this forum thinking they can just move from the US to another country without needing any permission.”

Exactly. As someone who has made a career assisting refugees legally resettle to the US, I find this kind of thinking very shocking.

Hi, I think we all stand and wish you luck. If it takes a year or two, then work at what you really desire.

As Kathy and I suggested, read through Catherine's - Texas Girl's posts.

As Roberto suggested, call around to some realtors to get an idea of housing costs -- even for a little cottage.

Chris suggested calling the Consulate. And, yes, maybe some of us PT travelers can get by in Italy with limited Italian phrases or sentences. You'll have to be at a comfortable fluency to communicate on a real local level. Unless, we are assuming too much and you know full Italian.

You got some really good ideas, so it should be exciting to get started! Just remember your "lilac garden party" when all is said and done...

I don't think it's that shocking. I think it may be more of a naivete for some...until the pure reality of it hits.

Italy is a romantic country as we know. People travel to it, hear of stories, read about it, watch movies, etc. --- a lot of it romanticized. Moving anywhere is hard work. Moving out of your own country to another (blindfolded) is another. It will take a lot of hard work.

Hopefully Susan will pop in to discuss.

Additionally, you mention on your other post that you've never been to Italy?

Uh oh! Totally missed that part. cleans glasses

Susan, "as Kathy wrote"

eta: the other post was removed.

How do I go about obtaining permission to stay more than 90 days? ...... If you don't know that, you are in for a learning curve surprise. Your targeted moving date should be May 2020. It will take that long to get your paper work in order. In meantime I would visit that area for a month or then return to the US to get your ducks properly lined up.

When I posted my first reply up above, I honestly thought I was replying to some Italian American, with dual citizenship, already familiar with the country, the area of Orvieto, and somewhat fluent in Italian.

Instead....it was a US citizen, who’s never visited Italy previously, planning to move to a foreign country in two months. Just like that.

Wow!
And here we are, talking about building a wall at our southern border. I hope is to keep clueless Americans at least out of Mexico.

Susan,
Over on the Lonely Planet 'Thorn Tree' forum there is a regular poster on the Italy thread who goes by 'Mike9'. He is an ex-pat Brit who has lived in Orvieto for some time, apparently after working in Italy. He has demonstrated an attitude conducive to providing the kinds of advice that you seek. Perhaps you might PM him?
Lots of excellent input above for you to consider. Simply put, you owe it to yourself to first visit Orvieto, or any other place on your list, prior to making the leap. Most travelers would go on to say that multiple visits are essential before final decisions.
Tante belle cose.
I am done. The end.

I am one of the lucky people who has lived in Italy. With luck, you will get your paperwork for a visa application done in 90 days, and that only if you can get your FBI background check done at lightening speed. The Italian Consulate for your area of the country will have a list of everything you need to document, including a lease on a place to live in Italy. Other items include assets, non-employment income, private health insurance, banker’s references, a formal application, a personal letter, and more.

We lived in Italy for 3 years as employees of the U.S. Embassy and still had to come back to the U.S. with our pounds of paperwork to apply, and we had to apply for the Consulate appointment about 60 days in advance.

I suggest you go to Italy this spring, stay a couple of months in one place decide if you can manage to live there long term, get a lease that starts about 6 months after you leave, then come back to the U.S and ready your application. Yes, it is a process, but nothing compared to what people who wish to emigrate to the U.S. have to go through.

Once you get the visa and emigrate, you immediately must make application to become a resident and get a permesso di soggiorno. THAT was a challenge and I speak Italian!

Buona fortuna!

Laurel---pounds of paperwork. LOL! Love it.
I am done. The end.

As TT members, gregglamarsh (Yo, Z!) and I can both attest to the posts from foreigners who aren't exactly up to speed on how long they can stay in the U.S., proper visas for pretty much ANY type of work, difference between a visa and ESTA, the fine points of buying, registering and insuring a vehicle (fair amount of interest in long-term travel in campervans and RVs), where you can and can't rough camp in the things, etc. Confusion and naiveté work both ways!

Oh and yep, Mike9 over there is a good guy. That aside, Susan, I'd be cautious at this point of keeping most of your communication on the public forums lest a poster with little-to-no history and less than honorable intentions offer to provide "assistance" only via PMs or personal contact info. At least, anyway, until you've a good idea that they're legitimate. You've raised some red flags that lead me to believe you might be sort of new at this forum stuff so it's for your own protection. :O)

"I think what is shocking to some of us is that someone would think they could move to Italy (or any other country) simply because they want to" - or maybe she's just making it up.

OP tells me that she's just contacted the Consulate nearest her.

I think what is shocking to some of us is that someone would think they could move to Italy (or any other country) simply because they want to.

Well, yes, Christine. That's why I wrote that I feel it's more of a naiveté about just up and moving to another country -- not thinking rationally, not researching the ins and outs and what is needed to be accepted and live there on their own finances, etc.

I don't know what the OP is or was thinking. As stated, she is near retirement. Sometimes, the mind wants to do something but does not rationalize what it takes to make some things happen. Living in Italy is probably a fantasy to many. Obviously, common sense dictates that it's not easy nor be possible for most.

Not knowing the OP and with little info she gave here, I'm just giving opinions on what she may be thinking "on a whim."

As we have seen, the OP has not returned (yet). Many gave her good suggestions while others offered opinions about her lack of knowledge or sensibility of what it takes to make her dream happen.

And, I don't like to readily assume it's a drive by post.

Updated since above post:

Nice, Kathy. So, perhaps the OP was a little shy and preferred to PM. Makes sense.

“As TT members, gregglamarsh (Yo, Z!) and I can both attest to the posts from foreigners who aren't exactly up to speed on how long they can stay in the U.S., proper visas for pretty much ANY type of work, difference between a visa and ESTA, the fine points of buying, registering and insuring a vehicle (fair amount of interest in long-term travel in campervans and RVs), where you can and can't rough camp in the things, etc. Confusion and naiveté work both ways!“

Kathy - In my experience, at least those who are not US citizens understand that there are legalities and paperwork involved in visiting the US. I do see, however, many instances in the site where US citizens think they just just move wherever they like. These folks need to get to the back of a long line of asylum seekers and other nationalities who want to live in Europe. I am a US Citizen living and working in Austria, so I do not take the process lightly.

Since Susan felt comfortable contacting Kathy, perhaps we can leave it at that. Hopefully Susan read the replies, found some things helpful or got an awakened realization.

She contacted the Consulate. That's a first step. Then she can get the information she needs to go forward with her dream.

I blame "Under the Tuscan Sun" for making it look charmingly easy.

I'm pleased that she's taken that first step too, Girasole.

But I've also been upfront with my lack of firsthand experience with a relocation - have just read about the many complexities posted by our folks here who HAVE done it - so it would be wise for her to take counsel from the pros.

It's OK not to know that you don't know something. :O)

If the OP is still around, I'm hoping she uses the 90 day rule to rent an apartment in Orvieto for 2.5 months and lives the life of a resident-NOT a tourist. That means going to the different real estate offices and looking at the prices for flats-which is usually an eye-opener for Americans wanting to live in a choice neighbor. Shop at the local grocery stores that aren't in the touristy sections and imagine doing your everyday shopping and the logistics of getting the food back home. Investigate internet, utilities and other essentials and how to go about doing this. Finally read every expat website about Italy or your region.

I agree that Italy sounds romantic to Americans, I blame the Rick Steves idea of La Dolce Vita-which is not the reality. Americans used to the easy set up of utility companies, grocery stores and how houses are set up can be shocked upon seeing the reality in Europe. I rented a flat in Paris and was amazed the weird washer/dryer machine was in the bathroom. And it could only be used up to 8am to 7pm due to the building rules. So rent for a few months, live like a local and see if you still want to move.

Very true, Kathy.

Heather, also true some points you wrote. As Stan wrote, movies (and books) really romanticize the concept of just selling, packing up and jumping across the World. "Under The Tuscan Sun" was definitely a fun movie but embellished with creativity.

Perhaps some of us can identify with a 'star-struck' feeling in our lifetime? I think maybe people get caught up in the idea of living somewhere else without really thinking it through. That's why I feel it's more of a naïveté of sorts. Definitely not insulting the OP. Some have been successful.

The OP wrote she would try it for about a year to see how well she adapts. That's reasonable if everything else is in place and works out. She's interested in getting a little cottage. I don't know if she wants to rent or is interested in buying.

Other suggestions of renting and living there for about two months or so is a good idea. Maybe she'll consider.

If anyone browses YT, there are more and more "world travelers." Their movie style vids make it seem so easy. We know it's not. And some have Q&A's where they do express what they had to do in order to live this kind of life style right now. Some can do it for a short stint while some have managed to live it long term.

*edited

I blame "Under the Tuscan Sun" for making it look charmingly easy.

Indeed! Italy is full of charm, but it is definitely not "easy." Obtaining Internet service will drive you to drink. I could not iron and wash clothes at the same time. For that matter, my husband could not make a Nespresso when the iron was on, the washer was running, or we were making toast. Blew the circuit many times and had to trek 3 floors down to a scary basement to reset it. Yea, charming.

I think people here tend to take this matter to the extreme in both directions.

Yes, there are long bureaucratic steps to undertake with the Italian authorities to obtain this elective residency visa, as Laurel pointed out, however consider that the same visa wouldn’t even be available to a rich retiree from Europe who wanted to move to the US. The closest thing one would need is the EB-5 visa, which requires a large investment in a company ($1 million, or $500k in a US government approved regional development area, I.e. economically depressed area) which creates at least 10 jobs for Americans for at least 2 years.

Regarding getting internet service in Italy, unless you live in a secluded area with no cabling, I didn’t have issues getting it for my parents. All it took was a call. Much cheaper too compared to my AT&T or Xfinity extortionate rates.

The problems with electric circuits exist only in older buildings (unless the owner has upgraded it).

There are however things one must get used to, like:
No clothes dryers. Some people have wash and dryer combo, but only few. There isn’t even room for a dryer in most homes.
Air conditioning consists of small units in each room in most cases, or not at all.
Fewer bathrooms compared to typical US home. Two bathrooms is a luxury already.
No garbage disposal in sink.
Electric water heater in many homes (expensive and with limited water capacity, so no long showers).
No elevators in older buildings.

But all these sacrifices in the home will be amply offset by the presence of a bidet in every bathroom.
Ah, the freshness that the bidet will give you down under, will make every sacrifice worthwhile!

Susan,
We moved to Italy almost 8 months ago. In order to apply and receive an Elective Visa (no work allowed) as we have done, you must have a signed Italian lease that is registered with the local commune. In addition you must show enough in passive income and financial resources to satisfy whichever consulate is reviewing your apllication. However the required amount is not published by any of the Italian consulates.

Without a long term Visa, you can not stay in Italy or the Schengen zone for more than 90 days. And obtaining the visa is step 1, upon arrival you have more steps in order to stay in Italy.

From a timing perspective, appointments for visas open up 5 months in advance, but not more than 90 days before your travel date. We made appointments on November 15 of 2017 for May 2, 2018 with a travel date of July 20, 2018. Our FBI background checks were mailed Oct 27 and took 14 weeks. We spent hundreds of dollars on printer ink, printing everything required for our application.

The book I found really helpful and made me realize we could actually make this happen is called “Moving to Italy”, available on Amazon.

I’ll also PM you; our blog which has helpful information. Feel free to ask questions.

I’d suggest an extended trip to Italy to test out a couple places to live, make contacts with realtors. Living in Italy in not for the faint of heart.

One little factoid not mentioned in this thread is that the 90-limit includes both the day you arrive in the Schengen Zone and the day you depart from it. That could be critical in planning a preliminary scouting trip. And of course "90 days" means literally 90 days, not 3 months. Unfortunately, there are lots of internet references to "3 months", including at least one on the US Dept. of State website the last time I checked--appalling. (Yes, I did report the error. Many months later it was still there.)

Oh Susan, find out about paying taxes in the USA as well as Italy if you're going to be permanent and not a tourist for a couple of months.

Found the below info on a recent blog:

Expatriates who are considering relocating to Italy also need to be aware of the income tax and social security requirements, which are also quite high when compared with other countries in the EU.

These are some of the questions a Consulate officer can help with.

Hey Karen; how is Barley doing? Looks like he had fun in Switzerland!

Cool inspiration:

“The wise man is one who figures out what’s most important to him in life, and then invests most of his time in whatever that is."

Don’t forget the US will tax its citizens even if you live abroad. There are however bilateral agreements between the US and Italy to prevent double taxation. As a resident of Italy you will owe your taxes to the Italian government (except for public pensions, like social security, which are not taxed by Italy if you are not also a citizen of Italy, for example someone like me going back to retire in Italy).
With an elective residency you can’t have wages in Italy, so you will be taxed for dividends, interest, capital gains, private pensions.
Interest, capital gains, dividends are all taxed at a flat 26%.
US Pubic pensions (social security) are taxed in Italy if you reside in Italy and are an Italian citizen. If not an Italian citizen, they are not taxed.
US private pensions (I.e, from your employer) are taxed in Italy regardless of nationality.
The tax brackets for pension income are the same as wage income. They are higher than the US.
Lowest bracket: 0 to 23k euro = 23%
Then there are 4 more brackets (27%, 38%, 41%, 43%)
Over 55k is 41% (second to the highest bracket).
The highest bracket is income over 75k euro, which is taxed at 43%.
Once again these brackets would apply to your “private” pension income (foreign public pension is not taxed to non Italian citizens. Your investment income is all taxed at 26%.
In the US the investment income is taxed at the marginal rate depending on your bracket, except for long term capital gains, taxed at 20%.
Higher income taxes must be taken into consideration when moving abroad. On the other hand the cost of living in Italy is generally lower (certainly much lower than where I live in California), therefore everything must be taken into consideration.
For those wishing to retire in Italy there is a bill which provides only 7% taxation for foreigners willing to retire in Italy. However it must be in Southern Italy and in a municipality with a population of 20,000 or less. Southern Italy, by law, is all regions from Campania and Abruzzo down (inclusive) plus Sardinia and Sicily. Not sure if the bill has passed already(it’s very recent).

Ed, Barleys doing great. We took the train to Ivrea today for their version of Carnevale.
Think orange fights instead of snowballs (yes the fruit)

Roberto, thanks for the info on the 7%. Need to look into that.

Hi Susan,

I love this guy. "Secret Garden" (by Secret Garden) is a beautiful piece. Listen to it. I hope it gives you inspiration to move forward for Orvieto.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qZSJvyBag8A&index=4&list=PL_a95100nzE0t9GtirbXoIKYSOQ-tw_m_

And remember, when everything comes together, you'll be a local. I will come to visit your garden ;)

A beautiful man. He does true justice to this piece too "Adagio"

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kn1gcjuhlhg&list=PL_a95100nzE0t9GtirbXoIKYSOQ-tw_m_&t=0s&index=3

susan,

I'm late getting into the discussion, but I definitely agree with the suggestion of others here that you might want to make an exploratory trip to Italy before committing yourself. Towards the end of that trip, if you decide to go ahead with the move, you can start putting some arrangements in place, such as a long term lease on an apartment or whatever. After you return home, you can start preparing your affairs for the move (give your notice at present lodgings, submit application to Italian Embassy, dispose of furniture, etc.).

Good luck!

I do see, however, many instances in the site where US citizens think they just just move wherever they like.

I blame HGTV an House Hunters International for this. ('She teaches goat yoga classes and he runs a craft beer consulting company. They've decided to move to Lichtenstein on a whim and have a $2.5 million budget.')

Are we sure the stories on HGTV House Hunting International are real?
Reality TV has very little to do with reality, you know!

I know a couple of people who have been on House Hunters International. It’s all staged. They are already living in their apartment, all the furniture is taken out. Just about all participants are already EU citizens or married to EU citizens.

It's definitely staged. I was once approached via a friend of a friend to do one. It was intriguing, but the thought of moving all of our stuff out and acting as though we'd have to pick apart our place was a little daunting. Plus, at the time, all they'd allow for travel was $1500 and fares from New York that year were almost that much for one person. In any event, I guess we weren't upscale enough or typical American enough for the show, being New Yorkers who were way too familiar with our Italian city.

I have no doubt it’s all staged. Those people buying may actually be actors.
For example do you remember those talk shows where people would tell crazy stories, sometimes fighting each other on stage? All those were staged, and the participants are all aspiring actors hoping to make some quick bucks. None of those stories or those people are real. The purpose is to get people to watch the program, there is no law against making it all up.

Actually, they are real people, not actors. I know a few.

For those wishing to retire in Italy there is a bill which provides only 7% taxation for foreigners willing to retire in Italy. However it must be in Southern Italy and in a municipality with a population of 20,000 or less. Southern Italy, by law, is all regions from Campania and Abruzzo down (inclusive) plus Sardinia and Sicily. Not sure if the bill has passed already(it’s very recent).

Yes, this law passed in January 2019. It's changed my plans...Abruzzo it is! 7% flat tax on all my overseas income sources for six years*. Irresistible. I'm in the midst of a full-year plan to move next year (following Karen's excellent blog and a few others for detailed instructions). Lots done, lots to do.

*This is not a simple subject. Since the U.S. taxes its citizens on worldwide income, you would pay 7% in Italy, deduct that as a foreign tax credit from your U.S. taxes and still end up paying your normal U.S. marginal tax rate in total. There isn't DOUBLE taxation due to the tax treaty, but you end up paying whatever you would pay in TOTAL. Canada is different, thankfully. Get good tax advice before you leap.

That "signed lease" referenced by Karen and Laurel, and maybe others, can be the difficulty. I remember reading this book:

https://www.amazon.com/Venice-Experiment-Trial-Living-Abroad-ebook/dp/B0058DIBC8

. . . on Americans who wanted to move to Venice for a year. They started the visa process for legal residency in Italy, but could not find any landlord who would give them a signed lease they could present with their visa application. Maybe it was just the culture in Venice, but as I understand it, the problem was suspicion of the tax authorities ( aka avoidance). In the end ( as I recall), they elected to "go bare", without a visa, and apparently did not get caught. But who wants to take that chance? Not recommended.

But it must be different elsewhere, as Laurel and Karen managed to jump through the hoops successfully.

We love Italy ( and my husband is becoming fluent in Italian), but we could not bear to leave our grandchildren in the US for a year, so we prefer to visit frequently instead.

Selkie--goat yoga and craft beer consulting: outstanding!!
I am done. The end.