More food, less church and art in Italy with adult children

Hi, I think your days for Cinque Terre could easily be used to expand your time in Rome and other locations. If you’re coming from North America, your first day in Rome could be jet lag wandering, staying out in the sunshine to acclimate to the time zone. I definitely wouldn’t try the Vatican for your arrival day!

I would keep Siena in your itinerary as a place to stay or see rather than adding Ferrara. I’ve stayed in both of them. But, it may be easier just to do a day trip from Siena on your second day staying in Florence since you have four people. I do like being in Siena in the evening when people gather in the Campo and socializing in the streets.

Parma is excellent for food - pretty much any city in the Emilia-Romagna region is fantastic food.

Where are you planning to fly from to reach Nice? You could consider flying from Bologna which would give you plenty of food tours for the ones you mentioned with Parma.

Thank you, Jean, for the advice, especially on timing the visit to Vatican City. I do think you are right that cutting CT allows me to add some days to Rome or Florence. I appreciate your advice. Re getting to Nice from Italy - originally we were taking the train from La Spezia but now I am not sure if I cut CT.

I will go ahead and give you the link to a trip from 2022. Most of it you can ignore, but the section on Florence could be some activities you would all enjoy. Also, Rome.

https://community.ricksteves.com/travel-forum/trip-reports/mother-adult-daughter-italy-trip-aug-sept-2022

Jean, your trip report looks super helpful at first glance - Thank you! I am glad to know more about food things to do in Florence! We are a family that loves to cook and eat!

Are y'all good with a super fast paced trip??? Is this anyone's first trip to Italy (or to Rome or Florence)? You mention the big/main tourist attractions as things you want to see, so I'm assuming you're trying to see a lot in these cities.

Staying in 6 cities in 13 days is super, super quick. It may feel a bit "if this is Tuesday, this must be Belgium." If that's what you want, go for it. But just know that you'll be barely settling into each city before you need to pack up and move on to the next one.

I prefer to limit a 2 week trip to 3, maybe 4, different places. I find it easier to stay longer in a place and do day trips. Doing that gives you fewer times you have to pack up and move all your stuff, plus the longer you stay in a certain location the more it starts feeling like "your" little corner of a foreign city -- you start to get to know the area and find "your" grocery store, etc. Maybe not a big deal to everyone, but I love to feel like I'm really living somewhere, even if only for a couple of days.

Cinque Terra is so gorgeous, but I agree -- the recent pictures of crowds make it seem less and less appealing. I'd skip it for this trip - you can always go back and visit it some time when it's the off season.

I'd suggest -->
Weds 5/15 - arrival in Rome
Thursday 5/16, Friday 5/17, and Saturday 5/18 - Rome
5/19 - travel Rome to Florence
Monday 5/20, Tuesday 5/21, and Wednesday 5/22 - Florence, day trip to Siena
5/23 - travel Florence to Parma
Friday 5/24 - Parma
5/25 - travel to Nice
Sunday 5/26 and Monday 5/27 - Nice
5/28 - fly home

That gives you 3 days in Rome, which feels like the bare minimum to really see it. You need a full day just for the Vatican. Then the Colosseum and Roman Forum will easily fill another day, then that leaves you with another day to see everything else - Trevi Fountain, Spanish Steps, Borghese Gallery, etc. If you really felt like that was too much time, you could always plan a day trip -- Pompeii is an extremely long and ambitious day trip from Rome, but it is possible. Ostia Antica is a different preserved ancient Roman city which is a lot closer.

The main sites in Florence can be seen in 2 days, then a day trip to Siena would be relatively easy.

I've never been to Parma, but it sounds like you've found some foodie-type things to do there. If 1 full day isn't enough for that, you could take a day from another city to add more time. Also, Parma is relatively close to Florence, so you should be able to schedule a couple of things for your travel day the day you arrive.

The day your flight arrives (assuming you're coming from the US), you won't be up for much. I like to use that first day to just wander the city and sort of get my bearings and get a feel for it. I don't love hop on/hop off busses, but they are useful for that sort of day where you just want to zone out and sort of get familiar with a city.

The travel days between cities should leave you with at least half a day to tour around and see things. Unless you guys can all get up and checked out and to the train station super early, assume you'll arrive around lunch time at the new city.

I'd keep Cinque Terre that time of year on the way to Nice. Take the bus from Rome to Siena; it is direct and quicker than taking the train. Then take the bus to Florence from Siena; this is also direct and quicker than the train. The old center of Florence is crowded also with mostly tourists and not as charming as it use to be with all the pickpocketing and some dishonest merchants over charging. Make sure to pay attention and wait for a receipt for anything you purchase in Italy (it's illegal for a merchant to not give you one). I would stick to just 3 hotels in Italy (Rome Florence and Monterosso (the biggest town along the Cinque Terre) with the time you have.

I'm agree with the previous posts: don't change hotel so often.
If you like food and other things probably Emilia-Romagna is a much better destination than Cinque Terre. And there are the car factories there (Ferrari, Pagani, Lamborghini, Ducati....) since you are even a car lover.
In my opinion you could skip CT (or do only one night there on the way to Nice) and do some days in Emilia-Romagna. You could use Parma or Bologna as a base and do day trips. Bologna is easier, because very well connected by train (half an hour to Florence, the same to Ferrara and Modena, one hour to Parma...) but Parma is very nice too. When in Bologna or Parma you can rent a car and do day trips to visit the food and car producers.

Forget CT, base in Florence for Siena visit. Add an extra day in Rome and Florence. Even if based in Florence, do a day trip/overnight in Siena without checking out of Florence. Day bag with change of clothes. Find inexpensive accomodations to sleep & clean up. Worth the extra expense of not packing/hauling/unpacking to give you more time to explore the city.

thank you thank you! Thanks for the opinions about CT, options to reduce hotel hopping, and how to use time in Rome, Florence. I an thinking through what our family will enjoy and adjusting itinerary. My current thinking is to cut out Siena, even though I love it. Kids want to see Vatican City, Trevi fountain, David statue in Florence, walk around villages, eat in smaller family-run places, get gelato 3x a day, take a cooking class, go see cheese tour, balsamic vinegar tour, see F1 race. They will have less of appetite for museums and churches in every city (just being realistic re their tolerance) and above all, I want them to enjoy it as opposed to endure it because itinerary too busy.

The way we plan visits to churches & museums (yeah, easy to get burned out), is to only pick the ones that have specific items of interest in them (a famous painting, the hip bones of St Gluteus, etc.,) and focus on seeing those things first, and moving on. The life outside is much more interesting to us.

Jean, Jessica, Jazz+travels, Ricky, Marc, Stan - Thanks again for your guidance. I have revised itinerary. Added night in Rome, cut Sienna altogether, kept CT because its really something I want to see. I wish I could get down to 3 hotels in Italy rather than 4 as I have now, but I am being stubborn about CT.
My question is do you have recommendation on van/car and driver services in Italy. A company willing to drive us from Parma to CT. We are also thinking of using a car and driver to go from CT to Nice.

New Itinerary (draft)
5/15 Weds arrive Rome 8:15 am
5/15, 5/16 & 5/17 nights – Rome, Rome, Rome (3 nights)
5/15: wander, Pantheon, gelato
• 5/16: Vatican museum, St Peter’s
• 5/17: Coliseum, ?
• 5/18: Trevi fountain, Piazza Navona, ?
5/19 Sunday – travel (train?) to Florence
5/19 & 5/20 nights – Florence, Florence (2 nights)
• 5/19: I Love Florence bike tour? 3 hours
• 5/20: Accademia, Duomo (climb it or Campanile)
5/21 – travel (train?) to Parma
5/21 & 5/22 nights -- Parma, Parma: (2 nights)
• 5/21 afternoon Parma: to do what? cooking class?
• 5/22: Food tour – cheese, balsamic vinegar, ham
5/23 – travel to CT (car is 3 hours, train is 4.5+)
5/23 & 5/24 nights – CT, CT (2 nights)
• 5/23 afternoon in CT: wander, relax, dinner
• 5/24: 8 am main hiking trail
5/25 – travel to Nice (car is 4.5 hours)
5/25,5/26 & 5/27 – Nice, Nice, Nice (3 nights)
• 5/25: what time arrival in Nice?, get barings
• 5/26: 5 am get up!!! what time leave for race? Big day!! F1 race
• 5/27: recover in Nice, relax
5/28 – Tuesday am flight from Nice to US

Even with your revised schedule, I would try to take the train rather than renting a car in either situation you’ve mentioned. The type you’ll need for all of you and your bags could be very expensive, plus the time and often oddities with picking it up and dropping it off will cut into time that is better spent with views from a train window- even the high speed trains!

Regarding Parma-maybe change your stay to Bologna for a couple of good reasons. Bologna is a hub for all sorts of train travel to most parts of Italy. Easy to get to, easy to leave from. Tons of good food. One of the most mentioned tours for ham, cheese and vinegar is Italian Days, which is based out of Bologna. They used to pick you up from your lodging, but it looks like that perc may have changed. Parma is an easy day trip from Bologna if you find a cooking class there that is a must.

I, like you, wanted to go to CT. We did, I’m happy we did, BUT…….could you possibly leave it until another trip when maybe just two of you visit or? It is sooooo crowded and unless you are really, really up for elbow to elbow all day in the towns and lots of people (many of whom probably ought not to be there) on the hiking trails, I would seriously consider moving it to another time when you could stay for a few days to get the real taste of CT, which is early morning and evenings after the day trippers have departed. We were on an extended trip to Italy, so having 3 nights in CT was easier to do and felt good because we did see the slower times and could plan our train travel times and times on the trails to circumvent some of the crowds.

Adding those 2 nights-maybe one to Rome and one to Florence might provide a less rushed feel to your trip. Almost to a person on this forum, you will hear what has already been said-too fast, too many hotel changes, too much travel time.

We travel for weeks when we go-we are so lucky and privileged to be able to do so-and I still have to keep myself in check for number of changes of places during that amount of time. I want to see it all and of course it just isn’t possible or practical.

Planning is the most difficult part. Whatever your final trip looks like, you’ll love the journey.

Seeing that you’re interested in a bike tour, another one I will mention is at Parma you can bike out to Castello di Torrechiara with a small group. I ended up not booking it, but it looked very fun. Or just take a taxi out to see the castle, if interested. Google Parma castles to see if any interest you.

When you’re near the Pantheon, stop at Mr. 100 Tiramisu and have an amazing treat!

Your places for the morning of the 18th can easily be seen at night, and personally, I think they’re a lot more atmospheric at night. Then you can get to Florence faster that day. Update: oh, which city are you staying overnight on the 18th?

If you rent the car in Italy and drive it to Nice, you will incur an unpleasant drop fee. The figure I have seen mentioned is around $500 extra.

You should look into this before you commit to that plan.

If you're race fans, I'd suggest a visit to the Ferrari museums in Modena and Maranello https://www.ferrari.com/en-EN/museums

Modena is 30 minutes by train from either Parma or Bologna, and there's a bus that runs between the Modena and Maranello museums.