Luzern to Bari, IT - train options?

We have done must of that journey but not in one day. It is pretty much 11 hours with 2 changes at Arth-Goldau and Milan. There is a shorter time (10 hours 14 minutes) if you depart Luzern just after noon, but then you don’t arrive at Bari til 10:30 pm.

We would definitely break the journey with an overnight somewhere pleasant on the way. But you say you don’t want to do that.

What about the train that departs Luzern at 4:18 PM arriving in Milan at 7:50 PM? You can reserve a sleeper car or couchette (shared compartment) on an overnight train from Milan’s central station departing at 21:15 arriving the next morning in Bari at 7:00: https://www.trenitalia.com/en.html. Heck, you have to sleep somewhere.

The direct "not-so-high" speed train #8809 departs from Milan Centrale at 12:05 and calls at Bari Cle at 19:30. Is there a direct Luzern-Milan EC train that stops at Centrale around 11:30? If there is none, I'd either take the above night train to Bari or break the journey. Pesaro (15:00) and Pescara (16:47) are both nice towns

Train times for Lucerne to Milano in the morning:

8:18 arriving at 11:17 or
8:39 arriving at 11:50

The later one is almost 11 hours and doesn’t really leave much time to change trains at Milano Centrale. The earlier train is over 11 hours. This is why I said it will pretty much take them 11 hours. Not something we would consider, but it is their trip.

Thanks to All commenting - very helpful!

So, we will return to Italy in the next or three years - to see Como area and Milano. Have been to Rome and it was wonderful - on the shoulder of season (don't think I would ever go in the summer), nice people especially for a big city, beautiful architecture, amazing history.

We likely would have flown from Basel if it would flow well, but it didn't - would have to burn the night somewhere so we decided to just chill in Lucerne. We're meeting our friends at a small agriturismo about an hour out of Bari, so would be very nice to arrive early evening (latest).

Back to training :-) - there are options - various methods to make reservations ... SBB (trains show for 6 Oct), RailEurope (too early according to their site, but can substitute 1 Sep to get routing) , TrenItalia (train options show for 6 Oct), TrainLine (afternoon trains only showing for 6 Oct). All end up in Milano Centrale or Milano Rogoredo - Frecciarosa trains depart from both, but looks like more from Centrale to Bari. Gah. Prices not bad - figure $200-230/person for Biz and 1st, but the usual byzantine categories to sort through.

I looked at both Pesaro (5 hours from Bari) and Pescara (3 hours from Bari) - both look incredible, thanks - Pescara's beach scene looks pretty amazing! Would like to spend a few days there, but overnight just isn't enough time.

Any comments re which trains would be great - know it is complicated - any lessons learned would be wonderful!

Use the sites of the companies that run the trains you are taking and forget resellers like RailEurope and Trainline. Why paying more to add a middle-man that won't be at the station in case of troubles?

Sbb for trains departing from Switzerland, Trenitalia.com for Italy.

Hi All - and, thanks for your comments!

Good point, Dario ... while I have used TrainLine (before it was called that), I can see the logic.

Further reading and planning … it would appear the following works. There are a couple of other options between Lucern and Milano - going through Zug and Arth-Goldau - but they have four and eight minutes changes …this seems like a bad idea for a first timer in those stations.

Three legs to the travel from Lucern to Bari (best arrival time for us in Bari is at 17:57 - figure another 1 1/2 hours to get to the agriturismo via a hired car)

Lucern to Lugano - 06:18 departure on IC 659 to Lugano
- three stops prior to Lugano
- which is best side for scenery? :-)

Lugano to Milano - 08:32 departure on EC 307 arrives Milano Rogoredo at 10:20
- three stops prior to Milano
- is 23 minutes sufficient to change tracks at Rogoredo?
- is there a downside to Milano Rogoredo vs Milano Centrale?
- best side for scenery?

Milano to Bari - 10:43 departure on Frecciarossa 9805 arrives Bari Centrale at 17:27
- nine stops prior to Bari Centrale
- left side would seem to offer the occasional coastal view?

Always appreciate any comments - looking for holes in my logic!

arrives Bari Centrale at 17:27

Always appreciate any comments - looking for holes in my logic!

figure another 2 1/2 hours to get to the agriturismo via a hired car

curious.... will the rental office still be open that late?

You can probably fly from Zurich to Bari in 4 hours or so with an intermediate stop in Rome or Milan or other airports; add the transfer time to Zurich. Being in the south, in the very east, and separated from the Tirrenian region by mountains, usually people underestimate travel to Bari and Apulia.

Whoops - just saw the posting software added numbers on each from my post from yesterday ... was originally numbered in three sections for the three legs. Think I fixed it.

Changed time for driver/car to agriturismo to 1 1/2 hours including transfer time.

lachera,

We evaluated the flight options. Since direct from Basel to Bari was not available on day of beginning of agriturismo stay, the transit time to Zürich from Luzern, then at least one plane change all added up close enough to train time, we thought seeing a bit of scenery instead might be more interesting.

Nigel.

If you mean office at the agriturismo, I did inquire and they can support an approximate 7-8 pm arrival time.

Nigel.

If you mean office at the agriturismo, I did inquire and they can support an approximate 7-8 pm arrival time.

No, George, I was thinking of the car rental place - will they still be welcoming passengers at 5:30 to 6pm? (I don't know the answer)

ah, I see you have changed the arrival time to 17:57. Even more so then....

I did check earlier, and believe it was 7 pm ... however, given our two sets of friends are at the agriturismo, and we will all be relocating to Monopoli after three days, I think it makes more sense to get a driver to take us to the agriturismo and then share cars (tight fit on the relocation to Monopoli, but OK for day trips for the six days in Monopoli).

The 17:57 arrival is as good as we can do it in one day - a few minutes faster if we add a stop at Roma Termini, but we like the coastal idea better. Will be leaving from FCO ten days later, so plan to train from Monopoli to Roma Termini and grab Leonardo to FCO, spend the night, and head back home the following day.

For your EC659 train from Luzern to Lugano, I would sit on the right side, as you will have views of the lake (Vierwaldstättersee) along there as far as Flüelen. Just after Altdorf you will enter the long Gotthard Basistunnel under the Alps, emerging just before reaching Bellinzona. From there I cannot recall the views, although I think the castles at Bellinzona are on the left going southbound.

You can see the route on this map (the dashed line is the long tunnel):

https://cdn-doc.myswissalps.com/docs/default-source/rail-network-maps/swisstravelpass.pdf?sfvrsn=7788603a_56

When we did this route last September, we used the Treno Gottardo which does not go through the tunnel. It is a regional train with no reserved seats, so we could move freely from side to side for views. But on the EC train seats will be reserved, so you may or may not be able to switch sides after the tunnel.

Thank you, Lola!

While I have not yet checked, I suspect the TrenoGottardo will delay our final arrival a bit too much ... already extremely tight on the transfers.

Gah - I checked TrenItalia this morning and one of the train threads to Bari from Lucern is now completely missing - the one we wanted, of course - is this common?

I was having trouble with Trenitalia yesterday afternoon, trying to pin down our own travel from Luzern to Desenzano via Milano Centrale. This is for a date in September that I know is on the schedule, and has shown appropriate trains running. But this time Trenitalia would either say “no solutions found” at all, or would show me options for the following day. Then, if I searched for trains on the day previous to the one I actually want, it would again only show trains the next day—which is the one I want. That is, I had to enter 22 September to see the trains on the 23d. But I didn’t trust the system enough to buy anything. I will wait a few days a check again.

But to confirm your thoughts on the Treno Gottardo, yes that wield take considerable longer so probably not what you want to do.

I noticed the same re TrenItalia ... odd, especially given it was next on my list to reserve. OTOH, can these trains really be even close to half full three full months out (in my case)? The last time I reviewed seating for the trains I wanted, they were nearly empty.

I also was looking for the Speciale Freccia pricing - but, that disappeared, as well, even on the limited trains now showing. I did make this category reservation from Bari to Roma Termini - it is such a great price, even in 1st class - the reservation system took the reservation and my credit card info - I hope I won't find out I have done something wrong when on the train! (I know that category allows no changes, etc).

For your train from Luzern to Bari, I assume it is a morning train you want? I believe I have found the problem. The train is running and is not full; the Trenitalia website is changing the time of your request to Italian time, which is hours later. Assuming you are in the US or Canada, this could be 6-9 hours later than what you ask for.

Here is the thread on this topic:

https://community.ricksteves.com/travel-forum/transportation/problem-with-setting-the-time-on-trenitalia-website

OK - getting closer - was OOT for a couple weeks and got distracted.

So, to review - I can't get to Bari from Lucerne on 6 Oct with direct flight or anything close. Would need to delay until 7 Oct and that won't fit rest of plan. Looked at other options - just can't make it work without multiple stops, and then time is about the same as training - so, Trains It Is!

Next issue is making reservations via SBB or TrenItalia - either provides automated routing without enough time to change trains - but, when I use SBB (Swiss) to get to Lugano I get 34 minutes to change trains to TrenItalia (Lugano to Milano Rogoredo to Bari at 1727).

Could anyone see if this makes sense - I've done short trains, and single routes, but this is more complicated!

SBB (Swiss Train)
Departs Lucern at 0618 (IC21/659 (Platform 7)) and arrives Lugano (nonstop) (Platform 2) at 0758
- two 1st class, Supersaver Ticket = CHF 94.40

Change trains - 34 minutes in Lugano (this seems enough, but the autorouting of 8 minutes did not)

TrenItalia (Italian Train)
Departs Lugano at 0832 (EC 307) and arrives Milano Rogoredo at 1020 - 1st Class Silent €48

Milano Rogoredo 1043 on Frecciarossa 9805 to Bari Central arriving 1727 - Business Silent €217.80

Total train fare for two = €360.2 = $394.69 (current exchange rate)

Business Silent €217.80

Wow, when you are back tell us if Business Silent cars are worth the price Trenitalia asks.

I'd be fine in 2nd ... wife driving the train (mixing metaphors).

Your train routing makes sense for your plans. I’ve been through Lugano quite often and the 8-minute transfer would be plenty assuming the train from Luzern is on time. That would be a pretty safe bet given it’s a Swiss train, but the 34-minute buffer would mitigate the small risk that the train runs late. Also the layover will give you a chance to stretch and walk a bit before the next leg, or to buy snacks (there’s a nice bakery in the station.)

You are correct about the coastal scenery. Starting at Rimini, the train runs closely along the Adriatic all the way to Bari. The bit from Milan to Rimini is not overly scenic, but very interesting to see all the farming in Emilia Romagna.

And it’s a shame about no stop in Pescara - it is an easy town to absorb in an evening, with a nice seafood dinner and a passeggiata along the beachfront. The central core is quite small, with a nice restaurant and shopping area opening right onto the beach.

Sounds like a fantastic and well-thought-out trip.

The 6:18 train isn't non-stop. It makes 3 stops before Lugano. Don't hop off early!

Rogoredo is a relatively small but very busy station. It has few amenities, the largest being a small supermarket, and no waiting rooms. Trains stop a very short time, so be ready at the platform at your time. Centrale is more comfortable in bad weather as a large gallery covers the track area and you are not exposed to wind and rain; Rogoredo is in the standard design of a through station in a suburban area.

You ALL have been great in providing the backdrop for this journey!

What do you think about an upgrade to Executive class? A bit more expensive - about twice as much!

I also saw some videos where TrenItalia has wrapped the coaches so that there are tiny dots across all the windows?

Been working on understanding the SBB train ticket categories .... slow going!

New thought - maybe spend two nights in Lucern, then early train to Lugano and spend one night there - get up next morning and head to Bari? Anyone spent time in Lugano? Wanted to walk from train station to hotel/BB ... looks like this is possible.

Or, continue part way to Bari, as suggested, and stay close to the sea, as Dario suggested? Pesaro or Pescara?

Recommendations?

OK - well, probably at the end of my investigations - so many more options than travel in US.

We've discussed and think leaving early to get to an interim location (Lugano, or Italian/Adriatic towns) mid afternoon with early get up next day just seems like we won't get much from doing that - perhaps better to "persevere" on the long ride from Rogoredo to Bari - and offset the length with money - go executive class. Might have more options that way to switch sides for better viewing as we head south out of Bologna - we can pick "left" side seating with the hopes of facing east toward the Adriatic, but the train could always be reversed, right?

We are also thinking we might prefer to leave later than the 0618 departure from Luzern - have checked with Truli Il Castagno and they can accommodate a bit later arrival. Will just get for-hire pick up at Bari Centrale.

Well, another oddity - this time on the seating map for the IC train leaving Lugano for Rogoredo ... there I a seat 23 that sort of overlaps seat 22 ... no indication of what it means in any of the explanations. Can't find anything online!

OK - tickets purchased. Doing the early routing leaving Luzern at 0618 via Lugano and Rogoredo, arriving Bari Centrale at 1727. Just simpler.

Thanks for everyone's help!

Edit Where did you get the EC 307 tickets? On trenitalia.com? I can't find it on sbb.ch and it seems odd.

Ps Prepare for tunnels south of Rimini, many tunnels

Yes ... in order to get sufficient time between trains used SBB for Luzern to Lugano, and then TrenItalia for Lugano-Rogoredo-Bari.

What kind of e-ticket did they email to you? A qr code? A pnr code?

PNR and QR from TrenItalia p, and QR from SBB.

Both emailed tickets had full ticket data.

"in order to get sufficient time between trains used SBB for Luzern to Lugano, and then TrenItalia for Lugano-Rogoredo-Bari."

That was actually not necessary. For one thing the transfer times offered on SBB are always more than ample.
Secondly in Switzerland your train ticket is flexible, so you could have always gotten on an earlier train.

International tickets do not have VAT in Switzerland, so it would have saved you a few franks even...

WengenK,

Perhaps, but 8 minutes between trains on different platforms, in a new-to-us station, seemed too tight for us.

The pricing looked very consistent, as well.

Our SBB ticket says it is valid only for IC659 for that specific time. Given we are only taking one train in Switzerland, buying a half price pass or other "savings" mechanisms did not make sense.

Hi All,

Got the schedules sorted and went through Milano Centrale vs Rogoredo. No problems.

Walked the whole 5 minutes from hotel in Luzern to the train station, grabbed an early morning pastry from the main platform shop (lower level grocery store not yet open), jumped on the train and off we went - Lugano change with 20 minutes to spare, and Milano with 30 minutes to spare - even had time to visit the TrenItalia lounge as we had upgraded to Executive Class.

Executive class was a hoot ... eight seats (a small meeting room with room for six) and a full time assigned steward. Two page menu, 10+ wines and bubbly, hard liquor - whatever you wanted! Huge seats - spouse and I had opposing seats and with legs up there was still about three feet between our feet! This FrecciaRosa was about 15 minutes late arriving Bari Centrale, so it didn't qualify for the 25% refund for being late. The SBB trains from Luzern and Lugano were precisely on time.

The views of the millions of acres of grape vines, the coastal towns along the Adriatic were stupendous!

Total time a bit less than 12 hours - we made it to our trulli agriturismo B&B by about 8:30 pm and joined out friends for a few glasses of wine with the owners.

We were able to fly to Bari from Rome, inexpensive, fast.

Let's compare :-)

Took us five hours from the time we got off the connecting train to the hotel at the airport.

Saw mega countryside!

Had breakfast twice.

Two first class tickets totaled €52.00 to Roma Termini and €20 to the airport.

Hi George thanks for telling us how it went. Sounds like you had a fun too, which is surely better on holiday than trundling through airports for internal flights