Looking for help with Itinerary - Family Trip May 2020

Stop adding locations - already you probably have too many on your list for the time you have - although it's not clear how much that is. First, stop counting things (days or nights) that include your travel to/from Italy. The first thing you need to do is decide how many days and nights you will have there, not including the day you arrive or the day you depart. Until you have determined that, resist the temptation to either book flights or start planning your itinerary. It's safe to say, you will need more days there than you have available (no matter how you count your "9-14 days").

Don't book your flights yet - you might easily lock in a mistake that costs you money and (more importantly) time.

Step 1: Determine how many days can you manage to be gone from home. Maximize that - it's not efficient (or smart, IMHO) to go all the way to Italy for a short trip - and a trip to Europe for just "9 days" is very short and not ideal (because that means you end up with no more than 6 or 7 full usable days there).
Step 2: Once you know how many usable days and nights you'll have there (don't count the arrival day, or departure day, no matter what time the flights are), then come up with your wish list for locations. Get out a map. String together some reasonable sequence, as linear as possible, avoiding doubling back. Avoid short stops, minimize "one night stands" and try to spend a minimum of 2, 3 or 4 nights in anyplace that's got lots to offer.
Step 3: Refine your itinerary based on additional research and input. Scale back your wish list as needed - travel is full of trade-offs.
Step 4: Plan your arrival and departure cities -- fly open jaws (in to city A, out from city B). Research routings, airlines, the relative comfort/misery each provides, then watch for air fares. Buy tickets well in advance, but only after you've had a chance to watch the range within which the prices fluctuate. Once you've bought your flights, make your peace with what you paid, and move on to booking accommodations, and planning how you'll spend your time.

Good luck.

I'm not planning to book flights anytime soon ... probably not for another 15+ months at least. And the "research" part of the trip is what I'm using this forum for (in addition to other resources) because I thought that was the purpose. Maybe it will help if I narrow my questions down ...

1. Is Bologna/Parma region worthwhile for 2 nights?

2. Favorite ocean/lake area in northern Italy that isn't packed with tourists, has outdoor activities available (water sports, hiking, etc) along with some amount of civilization ie restaurants, culture, etc.

Thanks!

If you end up having just 9 days on the ground in Italy, your must-see Rome and Florence destinations will eat up the entire time. Even 14 days on the ground is not at lot, considering how much there is to see and do in Rome and Florence.

The Dolomites are far out of your way since you've indicated you don't plan to visit Milan or Venice. For hiking options within your Rome-Florence orbit, take a look at the descriptions here of the Amalfi Coast, Tuscany, and the Abruzzo.

https://theculturetrip.com/europe/italy/articles/the-12-best-hiking-trails-in-italy/

Frankly, I've never been to Cinque Terre but I keep hearing people whom I might call "low-information tourists" pronounce it "chinky terra" and this has turned me off to the idea of ever going there. I know that sounds snobbish, but that's my reaction.

Your timing in May is good, in terms of avoiding the heaviest crowds, because the European schools are still in session then.

There is such a big difference between 9 and 14 days, it is hard to advise right now, but you have a lot of time to ponder.
First I would decide how many days you wish to spend in Florence and Rome. Would you be open to renting a car? There are many places to hike and enjoy nature in Italy, but not all are as train accessible (and therefore crowded) as Cinque Terre. Keep flipping through books to see what speaks to you. Even without a car, you can still reach some nice places if you just intend to chill a few days.

I guess I need to be more succinct with my questions!! Sorry, early stages of planning have me being more open to options. Let's assume we are spending 12 nights/days in country ... would this itinerary be advisable/doable?

2-3 nights Rome
3-4 nights Florence
2-3 nights Bologna/Parma
3-4 nights Lake Maggiore area

Ideally would like to avoid renting a car but may be open to that option for the Lake part of our trip - my understanding from reading through the forums is that driving in/around cities is not recommended and not even allowed in some areas.

Thanks!

2-3 nights Rome
3-4 nights Florence
2-3 nights Bologna/Parma
3-4 nights Lake Maggiore area

While I would want more time in Rome, that looks like a great plan to me. No car needed for any of it (even the lakes part, from what I have read), and you get your nature/relaxation fix, plus a little something different from your first visit.

I understand that your dates are way in the future so things will by their very nature be fluffy at this point.

With your previous visit to Italy having been a series of, as you say, "chaotic days on land seeing everything possible in a super rushed fashion" I think we have to really treat you as a first timer, don't you?

So key to recommending lengths of stay in various parts of the country is understanding why you want to go to each of your destinations.

You have said,

2-3 nights Rome

3-4 nights Florence

2-3 nights Bologna/Parma

3-4 nights Lake Maggiore area

You said you don't want the rushed trip you had last time but it looks like it is pretty rushed to me. Have you noticed that if you have 2 nights somewhere that only gives you one full day sightseeing - the same as you had the last time.

So which things would you want to do on your one day in Rome? Will you be jetlagged, or any of the 4 of you? Rome is a pretty major place so you have to pare down. Even if you are there 3 nights, that's still only 2 days in the city. So which 2 or 3 things are burning in the two of you and the two teens (then again if I know teens at all they may have changed what they want in 18 months) in Rome?

Then you seem to have one extra day in Florence. Are all of you very much into early Renaissance art? Which things do you want to see there?

What is the draw of Bologna? The two towers? Parma? The market? By the way, does Bologna/Parma mean both or choose one? You'll be there for the same duration as Rome?

Same question for Maggiore. What's the draw? Isola Bella? Locarno?

So, since you have some time to think, how do the 4 destinations fit with "museums/history/ruins, GREAT food and atmosphere, and beautiful scenery"?

I spent a couple nights in Parma and enjoyed it. Not sure if teenagers would appreciate the art/cathedral, but the wood Farnese Theater was interesting. They may be more interested in a tour to see how Parmesan cheese is made, which I also found interesting and delicious. I found one maker that was available off a main highway that I could take a bus to, but there are probably tours available (start with Viatour for options) that include this and maybe a Prociutto di Parma place. The city is food central. My b and b made a reservation at a place and said if I wanted to try horse meat, that was the place to do it. (I had the rabbit).

But if you decide you really want to do some hiking in the Dolomites, which are beautiful, you could spend time in Bolzano and see the museum dedicated to Otzi the Iceman. The city is outside the Dolomites, but it's an hour or less bus ride to the hiking areas. Staying there was less convenient to the hiking trails, but there is a train that goes from Verona to Bolzano. ( I assume there is one from Florence to Verona but you'd have to check. It might not be too bad).

Or, if you're willing to rent a car, you could pick one up in Rome and stay in an agrituismo near Pitigliano in southern Tuscany before dropping the car in Florence. There are walks through Etruscan built trails with the remains of their tombs in this town and others nearby. I stayed in a village near Saturnia where there are hot springs and one free (although not all that hot), but there are places to stay all around there. It's a beautiful area, and you can hit Cerveteri and Tarquinia on the way out of Rome to check out some of the Etruscan tombs and museums before getting to the Maremma (this part of Tuscany). There is also a nice hike along the coast at the Regional Park of Maremma (Uccellino?) at Albarese. You can go up one side of the hill, see an abandoned monastery, and walk down the other side to the beach. Pack a picnic, hang out a bit and then take the shuttle bus back to the parking lot in town . I really liked Maremma and it's a change from all the cultural activity of Rome and Florence. It's also nicely located between Florence and Rome! And when you tell people about the trip, you get to brag about how you went somewhere less touristed by Americans. That's worth something, right? I dropped off a rental car at the Rome Airport and found it easy, so I assume getting out of town would be fine as well using the toll roads. Sorry to throw one more place in your mix, but luckily you have time to consider the options.

KC - THANK YOU for the those suggestions - definitely areas I need to look into.

Nigel - Below are my responses to some of your questions.
Yes, please treat us as first time visitors to Italy!!

Rome - We primarily want to get in the touristy things (Colosseum, Spanish Steps, possibly the Sistine Chapel although that was our least favorite last time, and Trevi fountain - all these we managed to do in 8 hours time in 2009) and then just explore the city and experience some of the other highlights that we missed last time. Both our kids are experienced and patient travelers and the four us generally have similar tastes in what we want to see/do.

Florence - None of us are really into art anymore than walking past something and admiring it briefly. I selected Florence as a longer stay because we just loved the feel of it when we were there. Still metropolitan but not as dirty and "big city" as Rome is ... just seemed like a city we'd love to spend a few days strolling around with or without an agenda. I also realize a lot may have changed in 10 years!!

Bologna/Parma ... Honestly no real reason I landed on these except that they seemed like smaller towns that would still have the Italian culture (and food!) but without as much of the tourist crowd maybe? Also thought the boys might like a day trip to birth place of Ferrari, Lamborghini, etc ... if I understood the travel book correctly! Again, just trying to find some places other than the major cities to get exposure to the culture and the people. Totally open to other suggestions though! I like the ideas by KC to look into some other Tuscan areas.

Lake Maggiore - no reason I landed on this except that it seemed I needed to throw out a specific location to get feedback on the forum. Just want a "natural setting" destination to enjoy the outdoors.

Thanks for all the input!!

A few thoughts:

• The travel world has changed greatly since 2009. The Vatican Museums are now swamped to the point that the Rick Steves tours no longer go there and the usual advice on this forum is to pay for an early-access tour that gets you in before the general visiting hours. Given your marginal interest in art, I question whether it would be worth the cost for your family. I think the least expensive source of early-entry tickets is the Vatican itself, which charges 68 euros per person. It's possible that the children would qualify for a reduced ticket, currently 59 euros. That's a heckuva lot of money. And it means being at the Vatican at 7:15 AM. Would your teenagers be good with that? (I wouldn't, and I love art.) There's art to be seen for free in a lot of Italian churches, or you might considered the book-ahead/comparatively uncrowded Borghese Gallery, which costs 20 euros per adult, possibly just 13.50 euros for the teens.

• I like Bologna a lot. It has a large medieval district (one of the largest in Europe), which is great fun to wander around. It's known for its food, has lots of street activity, doesn't get tons of foreign tourists, and is a major transportation hub (great for side-trips). It is not, however, a small city. Just so you know.

• Italy is awash in fabulous smaller cities. I love them. To me, the trick is not to fill your entire time with big cities. I always include places like Bologna, where I can spend one or two days on local attractions (the Bologna tourist office offers a very good walking tour) and then take side-trips to smaller towns nearby. Although cars are not my thing, I think you're onto something there. If one or two of you are not interested in car-related sights, you can split up for a day. Ravenna, also accessible from Bologna, is a beautiful town with six or seven incredible mosaic sites. Highly recommended even for the non-religious (as I am).

• And I think it's good to add variety in the form of a more rural destination. It takes a bit of extra time to get to and move around the lakes, so if you decide to go that far north, I think you'll need every bit of the maximum time you have available.

My recommendation concerning Venice is not to go if you don't have time to spend at least three nights there. I'm convinced that a lot of people who don't like Venice only had about a day (no more than two nights) to see the city, and they spent all their time in the areas that are totally mobbed. (Like the Vatican Museums, but outdoors.) It's essential to have enough time to wander off the beaten path in Venice. With less time available, I'd absolutely go elsewhere. It's not like Italy is short on magnificent destinations.

Great advice above. I would only challenge 3 or 4 nights at Lago Maggiore. We left there a week ago and were quite underwhelmed. I think teenagers would be bored. If you want an area that us more recreational, go with your instincts and go to the Dolomites. Give it at least 3 nights and 4 is better. It could be the centerpiece of your trip and a counterpoint to the rushed experience of your prior trip.

Have a great trip. I am guessing 10 years ago was without kids? The crowds have gotten a lot worse in that time frame. Having traveled to Italy in 2016 with teens the same age I found it very helpful to have a lot of down time. They seem to need more sleep & more texting friends time as older teens then younger ones. If not into art Florence is very crowded these days. I would skip it. I honestly would go to three places max. Traveling you lose much of a day each new city. We are going back this Dec with 17 & 20 year old. Spending most of our trip in Rome with a short trip to Sorrento. (They want to see Pompeii ) we do like art & museums. Enjoy I find the best part of these family trips is just spending time as a family.

SA - Actually our kids were with us in 2009. They were 4 and 6 at the time and amazing little travelers. We were there in mid-June and it was sweltering (still don't understand why the Vatican doesn't have A/C). They handled the fast-paced days off the boat really well. They also aren't the type of teens who need device time - they will get plenty of that at night and while traveling. Good to know about Florence being crowded now - that may make me change some plans around. We do love big cities (NYC and Boston are two of our favorite destinations stateside) but also love the smaller cities, towns and natural areas. Basically, I'm trying to plan a 12 day trip to Northern Italy where we get to see of the iconic Italian sights but also really get a feel for the true culture and have that quality time together you mentioned! I will look more into the Dolomite region again - thanks for that suggestion. Also, while it was at least 100 degrees when we went to Pompeii in 2009, everyone in our group (6 adults and 6 kids ages 4-16) really enjoyed it - so fascinating!

If the Dolomites are in play, please heed my experience in late July 2015:

It was miserably hot in both Bolzano and Bressanone during the week I visited the area. The moderately priced hotels tend not to have air conditioning. Stay up in the mountains at altitude, in a place like Ortisei (which is very popular on this forum). You can be reasonably sure of moderate temperatures there. Bolzano is a beautiful city with good museums (including the Iceman's home), but that valley can be just as hot as places farther south.

The Dolomites have a heavy Austrian influence, which adds another layer to appreciate. The public transportation is quite good (buses and mountain lifts above Bolzano), or you could rent a car for a few days to range more widely through the area.

Hi! Our family of 5 is planning to go to Italy in May 2019. This will be our 3rd trip to Italy and the second trip for our children. We have 3 teenagers as well, 13, 15, and 17. First tip... download the Hopper app and watch your airfare there. I just purchased our tickets RT Dallas -> Rome for $367/pp on Delta through the app. This time to Italy we will be only going for 9 days. We have been to Sicily, Naples (Herculaneum), Sorrento, Sienna, Florence, Pisa and Cinque Terre, so we don't plan to visit those places again. We are planning to pick 1 area as our base and stay within that general region. Although my husband and I would love to hang out in a nice villa in Tuscany the entire time and sip Chianti, my boys would go nuts. So here's my advice, find out what your kids want to do. Cinque Terre is awesome!! If they enjoy hiking or going to the beach...do it, it's there! You're relatively close to Pisa by train and it makes an easy day trip. If they like WW2 stuff, the gunner's nests are still on the cliff sides and you can see them from the beaches. If they want to re-see the Colosseum and the Vatican, stay in Rome and maybe take a day trip to Pompeii (although I highly recommend Herculaneum). If you go for a full 2 weeks, then choose to split your time between 2 regions. As I said before. we will only be focusing on 1 region on this trip. I've narrowed our choices to Amalfi Coast and Capri or going north to the Bologna/Ravenna area. We will probably go north because my boys would LOVE to visit the Ferrari museum in Moderna. Italy is wonderful no matter where you go. You'll have a great time!

Some good tips here, and your research seems to be leading you towards some good decisions. I agree with the "plan a linear path" suggestion. If you really are wanting to look a little outside the norm, how about Rome - Bologna - Lake Iseo? Lake Iseo is close to Bergamo, an interesting place, and to Val Camonica, which is full of interesting rock drawings. Lots to do along the lake, some good hikes in Val Camonica. Iseo is closer to Bologna than Maggiore if you want lake time, and much less touristed. There are some very good old threads on Val Camonica if you do a search here. Also very easy to get to an airport in Milan for your trip home.

Caveat - this is the trip I'm currently planning, also for 2020. I've done a lot of research on it, but haven't actually done it yet. I just thought it was a nice tie-in to your initial thinking.

I've been pondering your dilemma this week, and here's what I've come up with. It keeps you in a small geographic area but gives your active family a good cross section of activities.

Day 1. Travel.

Day2. Arrive FCO. Train to Florence. There are 2 direct trains each day at 11:08 and 3:08 time is 2Hr14min. Your first day is usually a bit foggy, so head to the furthest location.

4 N Florence.

Day 3. Florence.

Day 4. Train Florence-Bologna 45 minutes.
Lamborghini museum tour.

Day 5. Florence or day trip to Lucca train 1hr19min. Or Peschiera del Garda 1h50m.

Day 6. Rent car (4 day) drive to this working farm. http://www.agriturismobagnolo.it/ENG/index_en.html

Stops along the way San Gimignano, Montereggioni, Siena, Montalcino.

Day 7. Lodging to Radicofani 40 min. and Bagni San Filippo. 20 min. https://www.wanderingitaly.com/blog/article/1066/bagni-san-filippo

Or head to Saturina and this hot spring.
https://maremma-tuscany.com/saturnia/le-cascate-del-mulino/ Longer drive 1H20m but well worth it.

Day 8. Drive to Montepulciano 40 min then Pienza 15 min.

There are also plenty of hiking in this area.
http://www.travelingintuscany.com/walk/eng/1walkingintuscany.htm Biking is also available

Day 9.
Drive to Terni for another hike and water views. https://www.umbriatourism.it/en/-/la-cascata-delle-marmore-e-i-suoi-cinque-percorsi-a-piedi
Spend the nite here or in Orvieto.

Day 10. Drive to Rome, dropping car at Rome Tiburtina station. 1H 20m. Taxi into the city center.

Day 11. Rome.

Day 12 Rome

Day 13. Rome-Lido di Ostia for beach. Train 47m

Day 14. Fly home.

This can also be done in the reverse starting in Rome, but you'll loose part of a day returning to Rome.

If you do decide to visit the Dolomites, do Rome first, then Florence, train takes 3H11m, then you'll have to backtrack to Rome for your flight home unless you fly home from Venice. If this ends up as your plan, be sure to book a late morning flight from Venice.