itinerary suggestions

We took a trip very similar to this and this is my two cents.....
Rome - 4 nights but no more. 4 days of running around Rome and you are ready for something more low-key. Rome is wonderful!! But it took it out of me with all the site seeing.
Then onto CT - we spent 2 nights, I wish I had done 3. It was the perfect post-Rome location.
Then train to Florence - tour but don't spend the night. (David, Duomo, Medecci chapels...) Take the bus to Siena. - 3 nights in Siena and I strongly recommend a wine tour of Tuscany. I can make a recommendation if you would like. Bus back to Florence and check out anything you missed on your first afternoon there.

Take an evening train to Venice.
We spend our last 4 nights in Venice. 4 is more than needed, 3 would easily be fine. But I liked having my last 4 days in one location to just relax and Venice was relaxing. Then just hop on a Vaperattto that drops you at the airport front door.
So that is a 14 day itinerary (15 if you include the day you will need to travel to Europe....eek, I just saw you were from Hawaii....I can't imagine how long that will take).

With the remaining days you have, you can easily slide Orvieto in this intinerary.
Hope that helps.

I recommend the following, if it's your first time in Italia, Dennis:

Fly into Roma
Roma 4 nights
Bus Roma Termini to Siena (about 3 hours)
Siena 2 nights
Bus Siena to Firenze (about 1 hour)
Firenze 4 nights (but rent a car there for a day to drive Tuscany and visit some additional towns, or pay for a long day trip via tour group)
Train Firenze to Cinque Terre (probably change in Pisa)
Cinque Terre 3 nights
Train Cinque Terre (either Monterosso or La Spezia) to Milano; 1 night in Milano to break up the long train ride to Venezia? About 7 hours probably from Cinque Terre to Venice. With one day and a night in Milano, you can see the Duomo, Piazza Duomo, The Last Supper, shop, eat, and soak up some city life after Cinque Terre!
Train Milano to Venezia (about 3 hours)
4 nights Venezia (to really get a feel for Venice, both in AND out of the tourist zone, i.e. San Marco-Rialto axis, you need some time)
Fly home from Venezia

That's the plan I'd follow. Amy raises some good points. The only things I disagree with are the idea of doing Cinque Terre BEFORE Firenze, and the advice of not sleeping in Florence. I'm a Florence guy, love the city much more than Rome, and highly recommend settling in there for at least 3-4 nights--and as a base for driving Tuscany for a day or so, too.

I have some itineraries you can checkout that also include south of Rome, plus the places you want to see, too, flying into Naples, on my blog. Buon viaggio!

Here is what I was thinking. Fly in to Rome and stay 3 nights. Train to Venice stay 2 nights, Train to Florence (3 nights) then to Cinque Terre (3 nights) Lucca (1 night) Pick up a rental car in Pisa after seeing the tower then drive to San Gimignano (1 night) On to Siena via Volterra (2 nights) Then I'd have 2 days of driving through Tuscany and could stay where the road takes me and hopefully pick up some good Italian red wine (any suggestions for towns and wine?) and my last day in Orvieto where I'd drop off my car and catch an morning train to Rome and fly home. I'd appreciate any input or suggestions.

Ditto Gio, think seriously about flying open jaw (why go all the way back to Rome?). Rome to Venice is a long train ride, and then you will be back-tracking to Florence, never mind getting back to Rome.

3 nights may not be enough in Rome - chances are you are going to arrive jetlagged AND travel-weary. Don't expect to do much on your first day. If you start in Rome, then you want 4 nights there.

Venice needs at least 2 full days, which means 3 nights. OTOH I would cut CT to 2 nights. I took the train from Florence to CT, and stopped in Pisa on the way. 3 hours to see the Leaning Tower site, used the left luggage room at the train station.

Maybe take the car from Rome, through Orvieto and Tuscany (San Gimi, Siena, etc., without Florence), drinking the wine as you travel, and losing the car as you near CT. Then take the train via Pisa to Florence (again, at least 2 full days/3 nights), then Venice (allow 1/2 day for travel) and fly home.

My flight is booked with frequent flyer miles so I have to fly in and out of Rome. I want to have the rental car at the end of my trip while I'm in Tuscany as I plan to pick up some wine to bring home and don't want to have to carry it any more than I have to. I could ad a day to Rome but I think Venice can be done in the time I allotted and I have read many people suggesting three days for the Cinque Terre. I appreciate everyone's help and am weighing all the advice you give to me.

Dennis, to begin with, your flight to Italy is going to be a LONG one. I spoke with a group from Sicilia in Honolulu in February, and they indicated their travel time was over 18 hours!

Some good suggestions so far. Given your criteria, I'd probably structure the trip along these lines:

> Flight to Roma (5 days - allowing one day for flight times and time zone changes, leaving 4 days to tour - plan your touring carefully and be sure to "pace yourself" as Rome can be tiring, especially when dealing with jet lag).

> Bus, Roma to Siena - trip is about 3 hours - check Sena web site for details. The advantage is Bus will drop you right in town (2 nights).

> Train, Siena to La Spezia (pre-arrange Taxi to Siena station) and transfer to local train to whichever C.T. town you'll be based in. Check Rick's Italy book for times of the local CT trains (2 nights - you'll probably be ready for a rest by then!).

> Train, La Spezia to Venezia SL (about 5H, depending on which train) - read Rick's book regarding which Vaporetto(s) to use (2 nights).

> Train, Venezia SL to Firenze SMN - plan touring carefully and arrange reservations to Uffizi & Accademia if you plan on stopping there (2 nights)

> Rental Car, Firenze to San Gimignano - if possible, use rental agency on outskirts to avoid ZTL zones; arrange drop-off at Roma Fiumicino (1 - 2 nights).

> Drive to Orvieto - possibly park at station and take Funicular to town? (1 -3 nights - possibly day trip to Civita di Bagnoregio?)

> Drive to Roma & Fiumicino for flight home

You can vary the timing of your stops at San Gimignano and Orvieto, depending on how much time you want to take exploring and buying Wine. This schedule isn't quite 18 days, but you'll need to allow for travel times. Be sure to allow lots of time to get to the airport before your flight!

Happy travels!

Ken I think you hit the nail on the head. Looks like a great trip to me!

Ken,
You've given me some good ideas. I checked on autoeurope and I can either pick up the rental car in Florence at the airport or at a downtown location (128r Via Borgo Ognissanti) I think it would be easier for me to drop off the car in Orvieto (the day before I depart Italy) and take a train to the airport in Rome (leaving from Orvieto) the morning I depart (my flight leaves at 11:45 a.m.) rather then driving to the airport the day I depart. What do you think?

I agree that Ken hit the nail on the head. Probably the best plan available to you flying in and out of the same city. Have a great trip!

Dennis, YES, if you can drop the car in Orvieto, that would be preferable!

Travel by train from Orvieto to Roma Termini and then take the Leonardo Express to Roma Fiumicino. In checking some of the train connections, it appears that some change at Tibertina rather than Termini - not sure which is preferable? In any case, travel time from Orvieto is about 2 hours.

Note that the first rail trip from Orvieto to Rome may require a reservation, so you may want to do that when you first arrive in Orvieto.

Happy travels!

Ken,
Thanks again. You've been very helpful. Are two days in the Cinque Terre enough? I was thinking maybe three. Is Lucca worth the time? I was thinking about seeing the tower in Pisa and then spending a night there. I foresee having four or five days to drive through Tuscany after already having seen Siena and Florence. San Gimignano, Volterra, Montalcino and Orvieto are a few places I want to see. Can you suggest any other towns?

Ken,
Can I find the bus from Rome to Siena online?

This is what I've come up with for an itinerary. Please tell me if you think it's doable. First 4 days (including arrival day, flight lands at 9am) in Rome. Days 5-6 bus to Siena, Day 7 Train to Lucca via Pisa, Days 8-10 train to Cinque terre, Days 11-12 train to Venice, Days 13-14 train to Florence, Days 15-18 rental car through Tuscany begining in Florence and ending in Orvieto. I will drop off the car on my last day in Orvieto. Departure day catch the early train from Orvieto to the airport. My flight departs at 11:45am. What do you think? I could always skip Lucca or shorten Cinque Terre to 2 days.

Dennis,

Three days in the C.T. would certainly be better than two, however keep in mind there's not a lot to do there except for the hikes, relaxing and of course enjoying great food (and Pesto in the place where it originated) and wine. You could also take day trips to Portofino or other towns in the area. Which if the C.T. villages were you going to stay in? Given the short time frame of your trip, I was concerned that adding one day to the C.T. would reduce one day somewhere else.

Yes, Lucca is definitely worth a visit, although again will you have the time to add another stop on an 18-day trip that is already covering about eight other destinations. Perhaps a stop in Lucca for a few hours on one of the other legs of your trip would fit?

Given the short time frame of your trip and the number of other destinations you have, I wouldn't bother with a stop in Pisa, especially for a night.

"I foresee having four or five days to drive through Tuscany after already having seen Siena and Florence. San Gimignano, Volterra, Montalcino and Orvieto are a few places I want to see. Can you suggest any other towns?"

There are LOTS of other towns to suggest (where to begin! Possibly Cortona and/or Montepulciano?), but again I'm really wondering how many you will have time for after visiting all the other stops on your list? Depending on how much time you allot to Orvieto, you might enjoy a day trip to one of Rick's favourite hill towns, Civita di Bagnoregio (check his book for driving directions - I really enjoyed lunch at Antico Forno). Perhaps someone else here can suggest a way to fit more into the trip, but IMHO your trip has enough stops for an 18-day time frame.

Cheers!

I think the recommendations so far have been great. My two cents is that Florence has many must sees in the form of art and history but lodging and food are forgetable and expensive. You need at least two full days to hit the must sees but I don't see it as a good place to stay longer, give yourself more time visiting hill towns, CT or Venice.

An extra day in Rome is a really good idea. Your trip is going to be a long one and you will need some time to recover before you can really enjoy yourself.

Dennis, regarding the Bus information, have a look at the Sena website. The website appears to be partially in English and partially in Italian. I can function to some extent in Italian so may be able to clarify any questions you have, but there's a limit to my abilities (I hope to be fluent some day, but perhaps we have some native Italian speakers here on the Helpline). The section at the bottom that reads Biglietto con Prenotazione Obbligatoria indicates "Tickets with compulsory reservations", I think.

Keep in mind the schedule could change by next May, so be sure to check shortly before your departure.

I'll have a closer look at your revised Itinerary tomorrow.

Cheers!

Ken,
What do you think of this revised itinerary? 4 days in Rome, train to Lucca (stopping in Pisa for a few hours) overnight in Lucca, train to Cinque Terre for 3 days, train to Venice for 2 days, train to Florence for 2 days, and the remainder of my time in Tuscany. Whats the best way to get to Siena from Florence? I was thinking about picking up a rental car in Siena after a day or two there and then driving through the countryside and staying in hill towns and making my way to Orvieto where I'll drop off the car. Any suggestions?

Florence to Siena is best by bus.I like all the suggestions but I would stay in Rome at the end of my trip instead of the beginng.Jet lagged on the train isnt so bad and by ending in Rome you give yourself insurance in case of rail strikes or other problems getting there so you dont miss your flight home.Just another view.