Itinerary input

Put all you nights in Rome together at the end of the trip. Saves one move

Price out all your train trips. A "pass' rarely is the better choice in Italy, versus single trip tickets.

that's a lot of work putting together that plan. It takes courage to do it on your own for the first time.

Undoubtedly you will have plenty of comments with advice.

Was your trip 10 years ago the only visit to Europe or have you been to other parts of Europe and this is your second trip to Italy?

I'm confused - you have trips out of both Wichita and Omaha. Are you meeting up in Italy or are these options?

$402 for second class for 5 days

If you add the cost of Mandatory seat reservations on all high speed trains (10 € per person & per train, not 10 € per journey), a pass is more expensive than discounted tickets purchased well in advance. Check if ItaliaRail's pass holders can buy the seat reservations online or if they must get them at the counter before the departure.

Note that there is no real difference between first and second class, it's not like on airplanes where you get something worth the price difference. You'll get a posher seat.

Train departs - 7:20 arrives 9:34 - $46/person

This is not the time to use re-sellers like ItaliaRail. You'll hate Venice like 99% of those going there for a day trip, anyway In real money a Firenze-Venice train costs 39,9 € on trenitalia.com and 33,3 € on italotreno.it/en

Guided tour ~ 13 hours ~ $65/person

65 $ for what? Walking with you along the trails?

Return car to Arezzo ~ 45 minutes

With a little luck.

Private car ~ $120-200 per trip

Did you check the price of a private driver from Salerno? It could be cheaper.

I can't get past the 5 days Florence/Venice/Cinque Terre....then to read you are doing Venice and CT as day trips. You will be seeing them at their worst, with high tourist density and everyone rushing to tick the boxes of top sights....and possibly still jetlagged. I wouldn't recommend it. It is an exhausting start to a trip.
It means more moves, but can you fly to Venice...even if just for two nigjts, then Florence.
Eeither way forget CT. Sure it is different that Amalfi Coast, but it is still coast.
I also notice that you have both the Accademia and Uffuzzi the same day. Either is pretty extensive and exhausting.

This is my second time to Europe and both times Italy.

The different departure cities are because my friend and I live in those cities, so we will meet at our layover or in Italy.

I did not realize Trenitalia was a reseller. Where do I buy direct?

I would not do both Uffizzi and Accademia. Both are posted for her benefit to see if she wants to do one or both.

With wine tours, I found I got a bit more information and history vs on my own. Very likely in the “countryside” portion, we will do some wine maker hopping on our own.

Trenitalia is not a re-seller; it's the company that runs the trains--or most of them. Italo is a second Italian rail company; it runs trains between some of the largest cities and is sometimes a bit cheaper. Certainly worth checking both of them. I think Dario assumed you had not used trenitalia.com for your research because you cited ticket prices in US dollars.

In addition to being concerned about day-tripping to Venice (especially) and the Cinque Terre, I think you may regret trying to see Perugia and Siena on the same day while staying in Creti. They are in different directions; ViaMichelin estimates the driving time at about 3-1/4 hours. Those are not tiny towns that can be seen in their entirety in an hour or two, and I assume some time will be lost at both destinations as you park and then retrieve the car.

This itinerary feels very packed to me, requiring transportation away from your base on nearly every day.

My suggestion is that you need to take a breath and decide how you want to do this trip.

Although 16 days seems like a lot of time, your trip seems fast paced and inefficient. Planning the trip yourself is great, with the understanding that you will be planning for two different people with different priorities and wish lists.

First, buy Rick Steve's book. Then, buy a guide book from another publisher, like Lonely Planet. Decide what your must sees and "if there's time, maybe" sights will be. I agree that day trips to Venice and the Cinque Terre are rushed and do not offer you the opportunity to really enjoy very much. The crowds will be horrific, unlike anything you have seen in the past. Remember that when Europe opens back up, the rush will be on.

Amalfi is cute, worth a visit but not necessarily 3 nights, especially since you are short changing Venice. Rome is amazing, even in the Summer, and Sorrento would be my preference over Amalfi, just in the number of events and places you can visit, including Amalfi and Capri.

Suggest you have a sit down with your friend and agree to discuss in detail the mechanics and the desired outcome of the trip. Then, pare back on the number of places you want to visit. You don't have any time built in for strolling and enjoying a cappuccino or a gelato. It's Bella Italia, after all, and you owe it to yourselves to really enjoy the experience rather than checking all the boxes you think you need to.

I think Dario assumed you had not used trenitalia.com for your research because you cited ticket prices in US dollars

and also because lesmccui wrote a link to ItaliaRail

I agree with many of the comments posted.

Have you been to Rome before, if you have, three days may work, but I have been to Rome twice for a total of 12 days and still didn't see all that I wanted.

This portion of your trip need serious work:
Florence/Venice/Cinque Terre - 5 nights
Countryside - 3 nights

Again, if you haven't been to Florence, then you need 4 days there. Venice, you need minimum of two full days. Not sure how you fit in Cinque Terre, Venice and Florence.

Instead of staying on Amalfi Coast, suggest staying in Sorrento, then visiting Capri, Pompeii and Amalfi from there.

We take local transportation normally..bus/train/cab .. buses go into hill towns and trains don't 99% of the time ... whatever is cost effective/easier .. we canceled this year but hoping for next june .. 1 week at Lake Garda (largest/best) then 7 day cruise out of venice on Norwegian dawn .... Croatia, Montenegro, and 4 places in Greece,no sea days .. gr8 towns too, (they keep calling you back) .. we use "FlixBus"often as possible and they have WiFi ... took it to Croatia from venice (round trip) a few years ago .. Sorrento is a gr8 home base .. bus to Amalfi .. ferry back? .. nowadays we look for big festivals and plan our trip for these .. Bardoleno on Lake Garda has 2 wine festivals a year .. a 2 day then later a 5 day .. not to be missed ... you could spend a week here ... all the towns around the lake .. Verona 45min east.. Bolzano couple hours north through Trento (must see both) .. 2 weeks in Italy is to short .. 3 is just right for us seniors... thinking about renting an apartment by the month in the future .. apartments are inexpensive and bigger plus you can cook a little if u desire ... Easter time is gr8 too ... would u go to New Orleans after Mardi Gras? Covid stopped us this year from going to Asti for Italys largest outdoor restaurant food festival ... also a huge cattle drive coming down from the mountain in Austria .. other countries towns do this too .. enjoy your plans .. Regards:Mike

Forgot ... as soon as we get home we start planning our next trip .. look for airfare r/t or openjaw in June or September .. look for festivities, dates, etc. .. lodging .. apartments normally are best we find ... fine tune lodging down the road as a better location might pop up .. Regards:Mike

I get the feeling some of your day activities, particularly once you have a car, are 'maybes' rather that a written in ink plan. I hope so.

Hi and welcome to the RS forums, lesmccui. You've done a lot of work on this itinerary, good for you!

1st thing? While I realize that you have previously been to Italy, would this be a first time for your friend? If so, I think I'd add more time to some locations which pretty much demand more time than not just to scrape the surfaces.

2nd thing: What sorts of things are you and your friend interested in? Personal interests can dictate where to spend most of your time.

3rd thing: Do either of you have any sort of mobility issues? Are you both able to cover considerable ground on foot? Sounds like you'll both be mid-40's so strenuous walking isn't an issue but best to check.

I did not realize Trenitalia was a reseller. Where do I buy direct?

Italiarail, not Trenitalia, is a reseller. You'd mentioned buying rail passes from that resource. Passes are also rarely beneficial in Italy, and we've never personally seen to need to travel first class; second class is perfectly comfortable. For a great introduction to Italian trains:

https://www.seat61.com/Italy-trains.htm

As acraven mentioned, Trenitalia is Italy's national rail service, and Italo is another rail company, albeit without as many destination stations as Trenitalia but a competitive resource for longer, "fast train" journeys. Tickets for fast-train trips are best purchased in advance directly from their websites, as you can often land nice price breaks. For short hops on inexpensive regionale trains, buy tickets at the stations. Occasionally you'll run into regional commuter trains such as the Circumvesuviana, which is frequently used between Sorrento and Naples. Trenitalia and Italo do not sell tickets for this sort of train so again, buy them from the appropriate machines or windows at the stations.

I'm thinking as well that you are doing too much moving around, and will throw my hat in with others recommending that you do not day-trip the Cinque Terre and Venice. The golden hours for both are in the early mornings and evenings when the herds of day-trippers are NOT there so spending a night or two is advised. How heavy the herds will be in fall of 2021 remains to be seen but.... If you MUST see the CT, do it on your own and not with a tour. There's nothing a tour can do for you there that you can't do more enjoyably by yourself. Venice, IMHO, is not a day trip.

Yes, load ALL your days in Rome at the end of the trip to cut one move. Also, If your friend has never been there, he/she will need more that the time you've provided to scratch that particular old and complex surface. Very kindly but the 10-hour suggested tour linked looks like a pile of misery to me. The Vatican museums, St. Peters, Capitoline Hill, Colosseum, Aventine, Pantheon and Trevi in one day would be exhausting and much too much to try and absorb. At the very least I'd split the Colosseum/Forum/Palatine and Pantheon into one FULL day, and the Vatican museums/basilica and Trevi (just a walk-by) into another FULL day.

I'll say the same for Florence: 1 day plus a few jet-lagged hours isn't enough to appreciate that city's many treasures unless you've BOTH been there and are not all that jazzed about Medieval/Renaissance art/architecture. You'd also need to be cautious that the one full day you've allotted isn't the one most of Florence's museums, like the Uffizi, are closed. As far as that goes, weather (rain/storms) and closures can throw wrenches in your other single-day sightseeing or day-tripping plans as well.

Driving the Tuscan hill towns: I'll leave that to the more experienced amongst us but do be aware that tourist parking can be interesting, and you'll want to do the reading up on ZTLS, speed cameras and whatnot.

Kudos for making the effort to organize this all by yourself! There's plenty of time to work some potential bugs out, and we'll cross fingers that the COVID situation will have improved enough by fall 2021 to travel. :O)

Many towns in Europe have free tourist cards for museums, public transportation including trains in their province or even lifts ..

As of 2015 a lot of lodging places in the town of Bressanone/Brixen in the Dolomites (and probably hotels in other area towns) provided a card good for free local transit. The card might have included a discount at some of the more minor local attractions; I'm not sure about that. I don't know whether that card still exists. In my experience, truly free cards of that type are quite unusual--though I believe there's a similar deal in the Black Forest area of Germany.

It's far, far more common for local passes to require payment, and a sightseeing pass is unlikely to pay off for travelers who take very many tours.

Many towns in Europe have free tourist cards for museums, public
transportation including trains in their province or even lifts ..

We've never seen such cards in Italy, and given the stress tourism has been/will be under for awhile, I wouldn't think there are a lot of those around. Definitely not for any of the major, fee-based attractions or train journeys the OP has listed. Sightseeing passes are not "free" and are not always economical purchases, depending on the interest level of the buyer and the time they have to use them.

"My suggestion is that you need to take a breath and decide how you want to do this trip. "

I would suggest that for the short amount of time you have on the ground, that 3 places to sleep is enough.
Every time you move somewhere new, it takes up about half to three quarters of that day.
Checking out, traveling, checking in, getting your bearings.

I've been to Italy ten times, and definitely urge you to buy your train tickets direct from Trenitalia or Italo.
If you book far enough in advance, you may even see some discounts such as two for one tickets.
We got a deal like that last year: Rome to Naples for E19 for two, on the high speed train.

Thank you for all the replies. Good input. This is definitely a work in progress. I appreciate all the feedback. One of the bigger changes I made was to look at moving from north to south. It looks like we can fly into Venice and out of Naples almost the same price as Florence and Rome. I am now working on roughly the following:

Arrive Venice - 2 nights
Train to Florence - 4 nights
Train to Arezzo and take car for Agriturismo in Tuscany - 3 nights
Train to Rome - 3 nights
Train to Naples/Amalfi Coast 2-3 nights

Still a lot of stops, but a little easier pace. I still haven’t put it together enough with this new itinerary to see where we are at. It might make more sense to day trip out to the country by car. We shall see. Once I get more items organized I will post again. Thank you again for all your feedback

Two nights in Venice is only one real day. And it takes half a day to figure how to get around and to stop getting lost.
Not worth doing.

The Amalfi Coast for three nights is a lot of travel and work for a very short visit. Save it for a trip to southern Italy. No, no to Venice as a day trip!! Same for Cinque Terre.
And do not combine Siena in Tuscany and Perugia in Umbria in one day. Visit Siena and then more of Chianti villages nearby. Save the city of Perugia for a trip focusing on Umbria.
Florence: seeing “David” at L’Accademia is one of the top travel highlights and I traveled a lot worldwide. Make sure your friend sees it.
Step back and consider the advice given by posters, then trim your itinerary, relax and enjoy your trip.

Best thing we did when we planned our itinerary was to meet with a Rick Steves travel advisor and he helped us plan our trip. They ask a lot of questions and provide good information for someone planning their own trip. Considering the cost of the trip, this is money well spent.

My head is spinning from looking at your itinerary..
First of all, the RT from USA to Italy seem high to me.. $900?? - I always thought it was around $400 range..

Like most people stated, ditch the 5 day rail pass... Download trenitalia app on your phone and buy tickets as needed basis.
5 days for Florence/Venice/CT is crazy.. Those are the most beautiful cities in Italy, and you are only doing day trips.. sigh...
You modified on the later thread and skipped the CT altogether (and it is the most magical place in italy).. To me Cinque Terre needs at least 3 nights..
Forget the tour at CT (not sure why you need it) .. Buy 24 train pass at CT that allows you unlimited hiking license and unlimited train stops to all 5 towns. I believe it was $18 Euro two years ago.

I could go on... but you are spending way too much on unnecessary items, like tours, private car hire and insurances ($500??)... Just make sure flights and hotels are refundable when you book... (lot of them changed the policy to accomodate COVID fears)...
Gosh.. I could go on.. and most people here can plan your trip for 1/2 the price you quoted..... Needs lot of modifications IMO.

First of all, the RT from USA to Italy seem high to me.. $900?? - I
always thought it was around $400 range..

Gene, we haven't been able to fly RT to continental Europe from Minneapolis/St Paul for less than $1,000 - $1,200. Post COVID? No idea what average ticket prices might be. I'd be very cautious about any you-get-what-you-pay-for, rock-bottom rates through 3rd parties.

I would agree with ditching the rail pass, and for your particular trip it's OK to ditch the CT too. I'd also consider ditching the Amalfi as it's too much time spent in travel for just 2-3 nights. Save it for the next trip. Add at least 1 night to Rome, and the rest for some easy day trips out of Florence (Siena, Pisa, Fiesole, Lucca...) by train or bus.

And yes, be selective about what you do and don't need tours for if willing to do some research. Wine tours? That's a good one to book a tour for so you can sample to your heart's content without getting behind the wheel!

First of all, the RT from USA to Italy seem high to me.. $900?? - I always thought it was around $400 range..

Gene---Were you in one of these?

https://www.petco.com/shop/en/petcostore/product/animaze-1-door-folding-dog-crate-305-l-x-192-w-x-215-h-2890609?cm_mmc=PSH-_-GGL-_-SPP-_-PME-_-PET-_-AQU-_-0-_-PM_GGL_FY20_SBU04_PrivateLabel-Animaze_PLA-SMRT-_-0-_-0&gclid=EAIaIQobChMIwqLl6LiK6wIVFBx9Ch3b_QDwEAQYASABEgI06_D_BwE

Unfortunately, from the Midwest, my experience and research tells me we will be doing well if we get flights around $900.
As far as insurance, I appreciate the sentiment, but have had weather and travel disruptions before, I understand it is an added cost, but I don’t book trips without it any longer (I don’t care to chance the “Covid generosity” a year from now.)
Amalfi coast...seems to have differing opinions on how long to stay. If we are to choose between Cinque and Amalfi as our coastal area, what are opinions? Obviously, that would alter our departure airport as we are now looking at into Venice and out of Naples.

Appreciate all the feedback.

Joe32F LoL on that link...
I guess flying out of NYC area like JFK or EWR makes flight to Italy cheaper... Even before COVID, RT to Milan from EWR was $400 on Emirates. - similar rate to Rome
I didn’t realize Midwest prices were that much higher.

lesmccui - look into getting a platinum Amex - I believe they have great travel protection plan.
I haven’t been to Amalfi yet, but I cannot believe it will be as beautiful as Cinque Terre. Food is amazing and it definitely will be cheaper than Positano.
And CT is much easier to get to using Trenitalia.
You mentioned you never went to Venice, CT, and Amalfi - as far as I’m concerned those are must sees in Italy. I would ditch the rental car and concentrate on those cities (Florence too of course)

If we are to choose between Cinque and Amalfi as our coastal area, what are opinions

Given the geography of the rest of your stay, going to Amalfi does not seem to be a good use of your time.

Cinque Terre fits much better geographically with your trip and is certainly NOT 2nd best

Some folks may like one more than the other, but that is a subjective preference, not an objective fact

With the time you have, keeping your travels confined between Venice and Rome gives you the best bang for the buck, time-wise.

My $0.02

As joe said, the CT is geographically the better fit into your re-designed trip. It's also easier to cover in just a couple of nights than the Naples/Sorrentine/Amalfi region.

While both destinations are maybe somewhat similar in few ways, in others they are very different, Pompeii being such a popular (rightfully so) draw for the southern area. Add Herculaneum, the excellent archeological museum in Napoli, the island of Capri or Ischia...2 full days/3 nights just isn't enough to adequately cover ground in this region. A stretch of rain? Can happen, not that the same isn't true of the CT. Both regions promise to be VERY busy in the fall...although what tourism numbers will look like in another year is admittedly a crapshoot.

But looking at the itinerary as it stands, I'm not sure where I'd insert the CT as your itinerary shows you traveling the opposite direction from Florence/the coast to Arrezo (I'm assuming you mean the town?) A Florence> CT> Rome order works best - the CT is a lengthy train trek from Venice - but I've no idea how to do that and efficiently keep the Arezzo piece. Maybe someone else has some ideas there but any way you shake it, you would likely have to do some time-consuming backtracking, scrap one or the other, or bite the bullet, spend the 6-7 hours dealing with trains and do a Venice>CT>Florence>Arezzo> Rome order.

Yep, the CT is an opposite travel direction from Florence in a Florence>CT> Rome order as well but it takes far less time to get there from that city than it would from Venice. From the CT to Rome, you'd be looking at train travel from Monterosso, say, to Termini taking roughly 4.5 hours/1 stop, best case.

Short story long, trying to keep both the CT and Arezzo is sort of a hairball directionally, IMHO.