Itinerary Help: Rome & Venice

Milan us a 2.5 hour fast train from Venice
IMO-too far as a day trip

There is much to see and do in Venice and 3 nights ( I assume) only gives you 2.5 days to see Venice, which many consider the bare minimum

Milan us a 2.5 hour fast train from Venice
IMO-too far as a day trip
There is much to see and do in Venice and 3 nights ( I assume) only gives you 2.5 days to see Venice, which many consider the bare minimum

Milan: Would it be better to stop there en route to Paris (via rail)?

Venice: I'm planning 3 full days

Dave’s, Here’s how I plan our time in a locati9n.

• Create a spreadsheet with columns for day, date, activity (such as “gondola ride” or “walking tour, or “Last Supper”), times open, cost, and Notes. In Notes I put any links to websites or comments I might have based on my reading.
• Look at a map and mark where the things you want to do are located. For example, in Paris you might want to see The Louvre, go up in the Eiffel Tower, and tour Montmartre. Those three things are in different parts of the city.
• See what else is nearby that you can group. For example, the day you go up in the Eiffel Tower, perhaps you can take the scenic boat ride on the Seine that starts there.
• Then start plugging sites in by day and time and sort your list accordingly

Rick Steves’ book has great advice on planning your time. You should have his Venice, Paris and London books on hand.

Personally, visiting Milan just for the Last Supper involves more time than I would be willing to give up in Venice. As mentioned above, it is a long train ride, about 5 hours roundtrip. Are you flying to Paris from Milan or from Venice? If you fly from Milan to Paris, perhaps you can schedule one night in Milan if this site is really important to your family. You must have tickets for the Last Supper in advance and they can be tricky to secure for the time you want.

I see you say you are taking the train to Paris. That is ALL DAY from Milan. Do you want to spend an entire day on the train? We have done it a few times, but we take trips of many weeks. With a trip of your duration, flying makes sense.

I see you say you are taking the train to Paris. That is ALL DAY from Milan. Do you want to spend an entire day on the train? We have done it a few times, but we take trips of many weeks. With a trip of your duration, flying makes sense.

I'm open to flying to Paris via Milan if that helps.

Best sites in Rome - does this include the Vatican and colosseum. Unfortunately there are too many sites to visit in 3 days, but would suggest you consider a trip out to the city of Ostia Antica. The site consists of the original port of Rome that was abandoned when the river became unnavigable. It’s an easy train ride and can be done as a half day trip. Combine the Colosseum with the Forum, they are next to each other and the Circus Maximus (think of the Ben Hur chariot race) is a short walk away. I found the catacombs not very interesting just tunnels with empty chambers in the walls. What the kids might find interesting is a visit to San Clemente church, aside from stunning mosaics, the church contains a basement that consist of layers of Ancient Rome including streets, shops and a temple. A great way to understand the stratigraphy of Rome and how it was developed over time. The Pantheon is a must see beautiful building inside and out.
The Vatican, are you thinking about just St Peters or including the museum and Sistine Chapel? This was the least favourite of my time in Rome. The museum was crowded and it was hard to see the exhibits, theSistine Chapel was a zoo and was overcrowded and noisy. Couldn’t wait to get out of it. St Peter’s was also packed,. Generally felt the whole thing was a wasted morning. There are tours that take you through before the normal opening time or later in the day which are recommended, get hold of a copy of Rick’s Rome guide for details. Pristine Sistine is one suggested..

Venice as others have said, you will lose a valuable day going to Milan. Kids might like a trip out to the beach at the Lido as a break from sightseeing. Just take the vaporetto to Lido, grab a picnic as you walk towards the beach and have a nice relaxing day. Visiting one of the glassblowing workshops in Murano is interesting. Just strolling around Venice, finding unique corners is the best. Look for the Jewish Ghetto, the gondola workshop amongst other things. A favourite memory was taking a people watching break on St Marks Square, having a somewhat expensive sandwich lunch that lasted for a couple of hours, enjoying the music and the icy drink, bliss.!

The Vatican, are you thinking about just St Peters or including the museum and Sistine Chapel?

We'd probably prioritize the Sistine Chapel, to be honest.

The thing is that the Sistine Chapel is part of the Vatican Museums (which are massive), and I think it's about as far from the entry point as possible. You can't just pop in and pop out in 15 minutes. You'll probably be walking though--or along with--increasing crowds the entire way. My trip to the Vatican Museums was a very long time ago, before everyone wanted to go there, but my takeaway from reports in recent years is that the only reason to go to see the Sistine Chapel during normal visiting hours is to say you've been there. It will not be a good experience if you don't pony up the extra money for early access.

If you must see the Sistine Chapel and don't want to wake up very, very early (and pay extra), try to schedule your visit to Rome to include a Friday and/or a Saturday so you can see the Chapel later in the day when it may be somewhat less crowded. I say "may be" because tickets seem to be selling out for virtually all time periods by the day of visit, so I'm not sure how much less crowded the Chapel will be late in the day. I suppose there will be fewer holdover visitors at 6:30 PM, 7 PM, etc., because many people will be thinking about dinner. We have had a few posters who did go later in the day, and their reports have generally been more positive than reports from folks with regular daytime entry. For what it's worth (obviously not much), I'm thinking of trying mid- to late-afternoon entry times on Friday and Saturday on my next trip to Rome. I may live to regret that decision, but I dread the thought of having to get up super early for an early-access entry.

If you must see the Sistine Chapel and don't want to wake up very, very early (and pay extra),

I wouldn't be opposed to paying extra and not entirely opposed to early entry...how early are we talking about?

Walks of Italy Pristine Sistine is one of the early entry tours
Meets at 7:15
https://www.walksofitaly.com/rome-tours/pristine-sistine-chapel-tour/

The Vatican Museums have so many ticket options it can be very confusing. To make matters worse, some of them become bookable earlier than others, so it can be difficult to figure out all the options. Here are two:

Breakfast at the Museums: 44 euros. Includes "American breakfast". There is no tour; an audio guide would be extra. Starting-time options for the date I checked were 7:45 and 8:15. 7:45 would be the way to go.

Prime Experience Vatican Museums: 92 euros. Includes tour and "American breakfast". If you wouldn't be satisfied with what the tour covers, you'd probably want the audio guide, which would be extra. Starting time is 7:30. The earlier starting time seems to be a plus.

I don't see any straight-from-the Vatican tickets for early entry that do not include breakfast, but it's possible I just didn't check the right dates.

Understand that there are multiple groups (arranged by the Vatican as well as by private companies like Walks of Italy) getting early access, so you cannot expect your group will be the only one in the Sistine Chapel during all your time there. I don't know whose groups get in there first. If you dig into the details of each tour, you may be able to find out which, if any, go to the Chapel before breakfast. That would appear to be the best option if available.

https://tickets.museivaticani.va/home/fromtag/2/1669093200000/Biglietti-Musei

Understand that there are multiple groups (arranged by the Vatican as well as by private companies like Walks of Italy) getting early access, so you cannot expect your group will be the only one in the Sistine Chapel during all your time there. I don't know whose groups get in there first. If you dig into the details of each tour, you may be able to find out which, if any, go the Chapel before breakfast. That would appear to be the best option if available.

Thank you!!!

I would do 4 days in Rome and 2 in Venice but some people love Venice.

+1 on VIP earl access tours. Try also the VIP night tour to the Colosseum - it's magical. We did both the early and the after-hours tours to the Colosseum.

+1 on VIP earl access tours. Try also the VIP night tour to the Colosseum - it's magical. We did both the early and the after-hours tours to the Colosseum.

Is there a specific one you've taken that you can recommend?

I'm open to flying to Paris via Milan if that helps.

If Venice is a focal point for you and The Last Supper is the only reason to stop in Milan, then the train Venice to Milan and fly to Paris seems to be the solution. Just be sure to get tickets for the Last Supper as soon as they are available for the date you plan to be there.

Instead of a 30 minutes gondola ride in Venice, may I suggest Row Venice, which gives small groups (4-5 people) rowing lessons on the back canals? We did it before COVID, and it was 90 minutes for everyone, about 90 Euro total. It also started near the Jewish Quarter, which is a beautiful, peaceful, uncrowded area to wander.

I would never do a regular Vatican tour again, unless you enjoy being packed, shoulder to shoulder, with strangers for a few hours. It's hard to describe how awful it is. If the Vatican is important to you, pay the extra money for the before or after hours tours.

The Colosseum and Forum are adjacent, and I really enjoyed seeing those areas, however, you will get much more out of the experience with tours.
Safe travels!

We did the Colosseum Express with Breakfast where we had breakfast at a hotel overlooking the forum and the Colosseum. Then we visited the Colosseum with a guide and the Forum without a guide.

Another one we did was the Colosseum by Night. Start time at 19:00. We have great sunset pictures from inside the Colosseum with this tour.

Finally, we did the VIP Breakfast at the Vatican with Tour of the Museums & Sistine Chapel. This was super early and we had breakfast in the Pinecone Courtyard inside the Vatican. They also have one with a small group that doesn't have breakfast and start early. I think it was CityWonders, but might have been Viator or Tripadvisor.

Do you have 3 full days in each city - 4 nights in each? If not, consider that you'll use the better part of a day getting from one to the other.

It sounds like you are focusing on places that are hyped a lot and not necessarily what would be of the most interest to most of your group. As a tween/teen, I wouldn't have wanted to walk for an hour or more through tons of ancient statues and artwork to spend 10-15 minutes craning my neck to see more frescoes (Sistine) and then a 15-20 minute walk through even more boring rooms (honestly boring to nearly everybody, based on their walking speed) to get to the exit. Then there's a 10-15 minute walk to St. Peter's to stand in line for a security check. Instead, I suggest you get to St Peter's early, when it's not crowded. Climb to the top of the dome for great views. And you'll still have half a day to do something else.

Get a guide or take a small group tour for the Colosseum and the Forum to bring them to life. There are very good small group tours in Rome. Maybe a food tour, and/or a cooking lesson, and/or a nighttime tour.

Forget Milan. If you do get tickets for the Last Supper, it's a big fresco that you get to look at for a short time. Unless your kids are really into Renaissance art, it will be a waste of time and money. There are so many interesting things to do in Venice. Check out Row Venice. Instead of a touristy, expensive gondola ride (or possibly in addition), your kids will get a chance to actually row a gondola. The Doge's Palace is full of "old paintings." However, the Secret Itineraries Tour is very interesting. There were some kids on the tour I took (small group) and they all seemed really interested. Ride the vaporetto. It takes an hour or more from one end to the other along the Grand Canal. Do it during the day AND at night. Venice looks completely different. Take the vaporetto across the lagoon for the ride. You can go to Burano to wander or to Lido to walk along the beach.

I would just do Rome, Paris and London. And I would hesitate to schedule an early morning tour of the Vatican museums with teenagers if Rome is your first stop and they have not adjusted to the time difference.

I would just do Rome, Paris and London. And I would hesitate to schedule an early morning tour of the Vatican museums with teenagers if Rome is your first stop and they have not adjusted to the time difference.

We talked over dinner; I don't think the Vatican is as high on the priority list as I thought it was.
I'm sure it's spectacular, but time cost/analysis wise, we may pass.

You don’t mention what days of the week you will be in Rome, but check out Nero’s Domus Aurea. It is basically right across the street from the Colosseum. The tour walks you through this on-going archeological site and a portion of it is virtual reality showing what was there before the Colosseum and the surrounding area were built. Because it is a working archeological site, it’s not open every day. Also, I would recommend taking the family to Trastevere in the evening, either for a food tour or just a meal. It’s got a lively village feel and energy. On our last trip we booked The Vatican for the last ticket time of the day. It was different as we followed the end of the crowd rather than have it envelope (and crush) us.

What kind of things are your teens and tween interested in seeing? Have they see “Ben Hur”?. Do they know the gory history of some of the Roman emperors? Background stories, whether they come through movies or the internet can make what they’re seeing more engaging.

I second the suggestion of going to Ostia Antica while in Rome. It’s easy to get to on public transit, and is often overlooked by most tourists so will not be crowded. It’s an ancient harbour town that is quite well preserved, and you can walk all over it and into the buildings.

Venice needs a minimum of three days. It is fairly easy to walk to the main attractions, but it is also easy to get lost in all the narrow alleys because it’s hard to see where you are going. Google maps on your phone will save you, and you will see all the tourists running around with their phones out to guide them.
The vaporetto is expensive. A single ticket is 7.50 euros and is only valid for 75 minutes. You can buy a 24 hour pass for 20 euros, and there are options for 48 and 72 hours also. If you want to get out to some of the islands, which I highly recommend, I would suggest that on one of your days you purchase a 24 hour pass and do all of your vaporetto travel on that day. Get the vaporetto from the Fonte Nove stop and it is only a six minute ride to Murano and all the glass shops. Spend a couple hours there, and then get back on the vaporetto to continue on to Burano which is famous for lace making. If you aren’t interested in lace making, still make the trip to Burano as it is the most picturesque of the islands with its multi-coloured buildings. You could also make a stop at nearby Torcello.

Now, since you have a vaporetto pass, get on the route that goes down the grand canal ( line 1 or 2) and just ride the whole canal to see all of the buildings from the water. I would also recommend doing the same trip after sunset when all the building lights come on. Otherwise, St. Marks square is the main tourist hub, and this is where the basilica is, as well as the Doges Palace, and the Corer museum. You might want to look into the various city passes that are available to save money on entrance and not have to stand in line to buy tickets for each one.

The best photo ops are on the bridges that cross the grand canal like the Academia bridge, and the famous Rialto bridge. These get quite crowded, but it’s worth it to get up early, at sunrise, and get out to get photos before the crowds show up. There is a tower at St Marks square that you can pay to go up to the top and get sweeping views of the city. But, if you look across the water you will see another tower at the church San Giorgio Maggiore, which you can also go up, and it’s cheaper, and likely won’t have a line up( or a much shorter one). Do this on the day you have a vaporetto pass.Other popular places are the Acedemia Gallery (old masters, mostly religious themed art), Peggy Guggenheim gallery(modern art), and the Frari church. There is a variety of other museums, and churches you can visit by either paying as you go, or buying one of the passes. If you are interested you can learn to navigate a gondola (not sure of the price), or just take a gondola ride (expensive at about 80 euros for half an hour). Otherwise, the most fun can be had just wandering and getting lost.

The tower at San Giorgio Maggiore wasn't open when I went to the church on or around September 23. I don't know whether that's a long-term situation or not.

What kind of things are your teens and tween interested in seeing? Have they see “Ben Hur”?. Do they know the gory history of some of the Roman emperors? Background stories, whether they come through movies or the internet can make what they’re seeing more engaging.

They haven't seen those kinds of movies, but they love history, so I'm hoping that helps. :)

You might want to look into the various city passes that are available
to save money on entrance and not have to stand in line to buy tickets
for each one.

Davey, just be aware that these sorts of passes don't allow you to just breeze into EVERY attraction these days. Some of them mandate that you have to have an advance, timed-entry reservation - almost always done online - for both for the adults and their minor offspring, even though children are free at many of them so don't need a pass. It's all about crowd control; how many bodies are going to be in ___ attraction at any given point.

As a good example, read the 7.1 text of the "Reservations" section of FAQs for the Roma Pass. Read as well the 7.2 section regarding children's reservations:
https://www.romapass.it/en/FAQ/

Upthread someone mentioned the Secret Itineraries tour at the Doges Palace. I’m not sure when you are going or what the Covid situation will be at the time but I was not comfortable being squished into an airless tiny rooms with about 35 unmasked people last week. YMMV.

I did do the English tour of the Domus Aurea in Rome (Nero’s Palace) this morning and thought it was awesome. Toward the end there is about a 10 minute Virtual Reality program that the teens might like. The tour was small in number (maybe 16) and the rooms were huge and spacious.

I'd also be concerned that the typical child's disinterest in museums might mean the family wouldn't go to as many as expected, so a sightseeing pass might not pay off.

Upthread someone mentioned the Secret Itineraries tour at the Doges Palace. I’m not sure when you are going or what the Covid situation will be at the time but I was not comfortable being squished into an airless tiny rooms with about 35 unmasked people last week. YMMV.

That makes sense...that would concern us too.

I'd also be concerned that the typical child's disinterest in museums might mean the family wouldn't go to as many as expected, do a sightseeing pass might not pay off.

I agree, which is why we're trying to avoid a bunch of museums and churches...especially for long periods of time.

Have you thought about doing a Rick Steves tour? They take care of all the logistics. My teens really enjoyed the 4 RS tours they have been on.
Currently planning my Rome trip and I realize now more than ever the benefits of someone else doing the heavy lifting. Really great tour guides and skipping the line for all the biggies.