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Itinerary Help, Please. Italy and Croatia

After a hiatus of a few years (during which we travelled to Namibia, Costa Rica, the Galapagos Islands, and Peru), we are returning to Europe. This will be our 5th trip to Europe, but our first trip to Italy or Croatia.

Our typical travel style in Europe is 2-5 nights in one locale (and occasionally just an overnight at smaller places (e.g. Czesky Krumlov). Of course, we’re aware that more time is usually better, but this format typically works well for our time/budget. We aren’t really “slow travellers.” We like to see the highlights and have a bit of time for walking around and exploring. We like to look at architecture, art, scenery, and historical sites. We won’t say no to a bit of beach time, but it’s not our major focus on this trip. We aren’t into nightlife, and I’m not one to linger for hours over a meal (blasphemy in Europe, I realize), because I don’t like wine, don’t drink coffee in the evening, and rarely have dessert. So, our days tend to be packed full, and our nights are quiet and restful.

Our main flights are booked, because we got a smokin’ deal. We arrive in Rome late on May 4, 2020 and fly out of Zagreb on May 25, leaving us 20 full days (21 nights) in between. Nothing else is booked yet.

In Italy, we would like to see Rome, Florence, Venice, and Pompeii. If necessary, we will leave off either Venice or Pompeii, but we’d rather not, as this will likely be our only trip to Italy. (Yes, I know people will say we will want to go back, but we probably wouldn’t. There are still many places we want to see.) We figure we’ll travel from place to place mainly by high speed train.

We aren’t sure yet how we are getting to Croatia. We know that we can take a ferry or take a bus or shuttle from Venice via Slovenia (in which case a stay at Lake Bled might be in order.) Flights seem to be limited and expensive. In Croatia, we would most like to see the Dalmation Coast area, Dubrovnik, and Lake Plitvice National Park. At least, that’s what we’ve figured out so far. We’re not sure yet how we’ll get around in Croatia. We don’t normally like to drive, but we may find it necessary this time.

Additional info, in case it matters: we are in our early 60s, well-travelled, and relatively fit but not athletically so (i.e. are used to walking but won’t be doing any major hikes).

So, given that, we’re wondering about how many days to allocate for each locale, and in what order.

My thoughts:

  1. Rome: 4 nights—3 full days. (Not counting the day we arrive, as we arrive fairly late in the evening. Note: jet lag doesn’t usually hold us back too much, and we will be booking a nap at Gatwick Yotel during our layover.) We want to see the usual suspects: Vatican, Colosseum, etc. (We plan to book these in advance and get tours and/or skip-the-line tickets.)

  2. High speed train to Naples. 2 nights? somewhere in the area in order to spend the better part of a day visiting Pompeii.

  3. High speed train to Florence. 3 nights? leaving us 2 full days in Florence. (We’ve already decided we aren’t going to try to fit in Pisa.)

  4. High speed train to Venice: 3 nights? leaving us 2 full days in Venice.

Bus, shuttle and/or ferry to Croatia?

  1. 6 nights (split (pun not intended) amongst Split, somewhere else?, Dubrovnik).

  2. ? to Zagreb. Overnight in or near Plitvice NP on the way.

  3. 2 nights in Zagreb (leaving us one full day and probably a partial day when we arrive).

I’d like your thoughts. Is there a more logical routing? Am I allocating too few or too many days to any locales (given the parameters I have to work with)?

Thank you.

Posted by
4603 posts

The Italy part looks fine given your stated preferences. For Pompeii, I'd just stay in Naples so you can see the treasures from Pompeii at the archaeological museum as well.
Ferries out of Venice arrive in Istria, so given the amount of time you have and the places you are more interested in, I would look at flights out of Venice to Split or Dubrovnik instead. Or, you could rent a car in Rovinj or Pula and drive to Plitvice.
You can do a couple nights in Dubrovnik (it's small), more time in Split (more day trip options), an overnight in Plitvice, and about two nights in Zagreb--that gives you time for the highlights since you travel at a brisk pace. Any extra days can be a "wild card" of your choosing. You might need a rest or laundry stop at some point.

ETA Public transport is Croatia is excellent, but getting from Istria to the places on your list would be very time consuming without a car.

Posted by
1691 posts

Ooh, yeah. There seem to be more reasonable flight options from Venice. I hadn't thought about flying from there. Thanks!

Posted by
27396 posts

I can't improve on your time allocation.

Bus transportation in Croatia is pretty good and fairly frequent since there aren't a lot of trains. Expect to be charged the equivalent of about 1 euro per bag stowed in the luggage hold.

Zagreb has a lot of museums, including some small, single-artist museums. At the time of my visit in 2015, the tourist office had a very useful brochure with descriptive information on all the museums, but due to the brevity of your visit, I think you'll need to research the options via guide books and/or the internet before your trip. The Museum of Croatian Naïve Art (in the old town) is small but outstanding. The Museum of Broken Relationships, also in the old town, is lot more interesting than it sounds.

Posted by
11432 posts

I will toss out this idea for your consideration.

See Ostia Antica ( while in Rome) vs going to Naples to see Pompeii. This would be your 'ancient Roman city' fix and give you at least one more day in Florence to allow time for a trip to Pisa ( and maybe Lucca as well).

Posted by
1691 posts

Thanks for the museum suggestions, A. Craven. We are a little fuzzier about what specifics we want to see in Croatia. We've just heard that it's beautiful there. :)

And thanks for the idea about visiting Ostia Antica, Joe. We'll definitely consider it.

Posted by
27396 posts

Plitvice Lakes National Park is one of my favorite places in Europe, but you absolutely must spend the night before your visit near the park so you can enter it at opening time the next day. If you arrive around mid-afternoon, seeing part of the park late that day may also be viable. It is just terribly overrun during day-tripping hours, and it matters a great deal. The most well-known places along the coast are also heavily visited. One of the things I liked about Zagreb (aside from the architecture) was that every second person I saw wasn't an American.

Posted by
1691 posts

Thanks. I think that's a good idea. I'm thinking we might stay in the park, even though they aren't the best hotels in the area, to maximize our time there.

Posted by
27396 posts

If you're willing to drive for the segment of the trip that takes you to and from the park (which will probably save enough hours to make it worth the aggravation of picking up a car), you might also check booking.com to see if there are small lodgings within an easy commute of the park. As I understand it, though, one of the advantages of the (reportedly overpriced) park hotels is that they will endorse an entry ticket for use the next day. I have never done that and cannot guarantee the policy still exists, but that would save some money with two you traveling, enough to cover part of the extra cost of those hotels.

Posted by
1691 posts

Thanks. I, too, heard about the 2-day ticket thing. I will check to make sure that it is still the case. That way, we could go in towards the end of our arrival day and again the next morning. (We did something similar for Machu Picchu, and it worked out beautifully.)

Posted by
847 posts

I'll trade you some Italy Croatia info for some Peru info. I've been to Europe a lot (33 times in 20 years) and I'm right now trying to plan a trip to Peru. Did you write a trip report or blog or anything about your experience there?

Even if you didn't here's my take on your Croatia/Italy plans. Your Italy time looks OK, fast but OK. Personally I'd skip Pompeii/Naples so you have more time in other places. I enjoyed visiting Pompeii but your time is limited and somethings gotta give and they are in the opposite direction of everywhere else you are going.

Since most of what you want to see in Croatia is south I would see if flying into Dubrovnik wouldn't work for you. Then you could make your way north to Split, then on to Zagreb. The ferry was not as much fun as I thought it would be - all inside seating, took almost 4 hours, like being in a giant airplane. In our case we wanted to see the Istrian peninsula so arriving in Rovinj made a lot of sense, but it will take you quite a while to get all the way down to Dubrovnik from there and you don't have much time. That's also the case if you took the bus/shuttle deal that drives you from Venice to Croatia.

If you can work it out I'd do 2 nights Dubrovnik, 2 nights an island (Hvar or Korcula), 2 nights Split. Then bus to the Plitvice Lakes arriving so you can enter the park at 4pm. Stay at one of the park hotels (yes they stamp your ticket so you can enter free the next day) and go back in the next morning. That's what we did and it worked well. We did purchase our tickets on line ahead of time. Be careful you choose entrance 2 (the one near the hotels) and not entrance 1. We made that mistake and it turned out OK because the hotel drove us to entrance 1 but otherwise we'd have wasted a lot of time. That only leaves you 1 night in Zagreb but I think that's the least 'worthy' of all the places you are going (but then it's the only place I have not been to so what do I know).

Here's the trip report I wrote from my Italy/Croatia trip this past summer - https://community.ricksteves.com/travel-forum/trip-reports/trip-report-5-weeks-in-italy-croatia-france-summer-2019

Here's another trip report I wrote about the places you are going in Italy (the report above was just Bologna/Venice) - https://andiamo.zenfolio.com/blog/2017/5/italy-through-fresh-eyes---chashing-the-sun-in-italy-in-march

Back to Peru - did you plan and do the whole thing DIY or did you do all/part of it as a tour?

Posted by
3112 posts

The Italy portion looks good, and with almost 3 weeks in total you can afford to allocate a couple of nights to visit Pompeii. For Croatia, consider taking the Venezia Lines catamaran to Istria (Porec, Rovinj or Pula) and renting a car for your time in Croatia. Driving is very easy and a car is much more efficient than public transit. The catamaran departs Venice at 5:30pm and the high-speed train from Florence to Venice only takes 2 hours, so departing for Istria instead of staying a third night in Venice still gives you 2 "full" days there, although spread out over 3 days. Dubrovnik is quite a bit south of Split, so consider visiting Istria, Split (maybe stay in Trogir with a car), Plitvice and Zagreb instead. That route also gives you the option to stop in Plitvice either on the way to Split or on the way to Zagreb. On the way to Split might be better, as it breaks up the longer drive and you can take the expressway directly back to Zagreb.

Posted by
1691 posts

Frank, thank you. I do think Dubrovnik is a bit of an outlier, and your suggestions make a lot of sense. It looks so pretty in the pictures, though.... :)

Posted by
27396 posts

BB, I'm afraid some people who would benefit from this interim report on Peru won't find it here. Why don't you go to the Rest of World forum, create a thread with a title like "Trip Report -- Peru", and either paste a copy of the above posts or just leave a link to this thread.

Back on the subject of Croatia:

Dubrovnik is very picturesque. I haven't been there recently, but it was busy and popular back in the 1980s, so I can well imagine that it is totally overrun today, in addition to being geographically inconvenient for you. I don't actually think you have time to divert from the Split/Plitvice/Zagreb route, but the historical coastal town of Zadar is very nice and not too much of a detour. Others have written positively about Sibenik, which is only the tiniest bit of a jog off the Split-Plitvice route.

Posted by
1691 posts

Oh, thank you.

And thanks for the tip about the Rest of the World forum. I'd forgotten about that. I'll do that.

Posted by
1691 posts

Okay.

Based on the feedback I've received, I've decided to adjust the itinerary just slightly to give us one more day in Croatia.

I considered cutting out Pompeii, but that was something my husband said he wanted to see. As I do the planning and researching, I get most things my way, so I do like to include his ideas as much as possible. I've looked into day tours to Pompeii, and, although it would be a long day and maybe not the most ideal way to see Pompeii, it's doable, and I think we'd enjoy at least seeing something of Pompeii. This allows us to allocate one more night to Croatia, and if we fly into Dubrovnik and then travel up the coast, that seems like the most logical way to try to include a taste of Dubrovnik.

My new thoughts are:

Rome May 4-9 (5 nights, 4 days, including day trip to Pompeii)

Florence (3 nights, 2 days)

Venice (3 nights, 2 days)

Fly to Dubrovnik from Venice.

2 nights, 1 1/2 days in Dubrovnik. Rent car or take shuttle to Split.

5 nights split between Split and maybe? somewhere else (Hvar, Korcula) or take day trips.

1 night Lake Plitvice

2 nights Zagreb

Posted by
77 posts

Regarding a day trip, my wife and I took a day trip by bus from Rome to Pompeii (and return) about 5 years ago. It was a long day, but we got to spend about 3 hours in Pompeii (maybe a little more). Highly recommended IMO.

Posted by
1691 posts

Good to know. I think a day trip would make more sense for us, instead of spending two nights in Naples.