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Itinerary from Paris to Florence, Italy, via Nice?

Hello,
I are am traveling from USA with my husband and our 2 daughters, ages 13 and 16, first to London for 3 nights, then on to Paris for 3 nights, but from Paris I am hoping to get some thoughts on our itinerary. We leave June 10, arrive London June 11-14, then Paris, June 14-17. From June 17-26 (June 26 we need be back in London for early flight home June 27). We have never been to Europe before. We would like to experience some of the rail travel that we have heard so much about so we have been looking into Italy, since that is somewhere we have always talked of going. We are more outdoors type people, not so much city people. So that said, we would not like to be in big cities the whole time on this trip.

Here's my idea but I don't know the reality of if this is too much for our block of time (June 17 - June 26). I looked into high speed train from Paris to Nice which is suppose to have beautiful scenery and only a 5.5 hr train ride, spend 1 night in Nice. Next day get a flight from Nice to Rome, then take a train or rent a car and stay up in the outer area of Florence and spend the majority of our time there touring villages, and going into city of Florence, then flying from Florence back to London.

Or would it be better to take a train from Paris to Florence? That train route seemed really long while the other route seemed like we could see a lot more instead of a big block on one mode of transportation. We leave in just 2.5 months and I don't have this worked out yet as it seemed to have gotten overwhelming trying to set an itinerary.

Thank you advance for your suggestions!

Posted by
8889 posts

First, you say "We would like to experience some of the rail travel", but how are you getting from London to Paris. I hope it is train (Eurostar) as that is the only sensible option.

Paris to Nice is nice scenery, but I couldn't call it "beautiful" or overwhelming. If you want to go to Nice, OK, otherwise Paris to Florence via Nice is a detour and a long train ride. Consider a direct train or a cut-price airline as an alternative.
For info on Paris to Florence by train, see here: http://seat61.com/international-trains/trains-from-Paris.htm#Paris-Italy

If you want to go into Florence, a car is a no-no. I would consider a few (car-less) days in Florence, followed by a hire car for the surrounding area.
Finally, why are you flying back to London? Is it not possible to get a direct flight back?

Posted by
10344 posts

What scenery were you thinking of, that's viewable from a high speed train [edit: the average speed on the Paris to Marseille high speed train route is about 175 to 200 mph, about 3 times as fast as you would drive on an interstate].
Even the slower train from Marseille to Nice, which looking at the map you would think is scenic, is not particularly scenic.
The coast is sure scenic around Nice, but you have to be up in the Corniche (hills/mountains above Nice) to really appreciate it.

Also, whatever decisions you make, you probably don't want to drive a rental car into Florence. That would be the time to take a train, to Florence.

Posted by
4105 posts

If your you don't plan on spending any time in Rome, why not fly Easyjet, a budget carrier to
Pisa from Paris Orly. Flight time is 1 3/4 hrs. Leaves Orly at 13:50 arrives 15:30. This should
save you not only precious vacation time but also money.
Pick up your rental @ the airport. If you need suggestions for lodging in Tuscany, many on this
board can help. One of my favorites. http://www.collelungo.com/EN/collelungo.html
FYI on the high speed trains, the scenery flies by.

Posted by
4105 posts

Forgot to add, you can also fly from Milan Linate to London Gatwick on easyjet.
If you plan a visit to Florence, make sure you don't enter the ZTL zone.

Posted by
11294 posts

It seems you have already booked a round trip flight in and out of London. What's done is done, but for future trips, it's often better to book "multi city" flights (also called open jaw), into one city and out of another. For instance, Cleveland to London and Florence to Cleveland. It's usually not much more expensive than a simple round trip, and you save time and money not backtracking.

As for transportation, don't let "the tail wag the dog." Don't take a train just for the experience. If train is the best way to connect two destinations you want to see, great (as said above, for London to Paris this is definitely the case). But don't detour to a place just to be able to take a train. If you want to see Paris and Florence, fly between them.

Whatever you do, don't go all the way to Nice just to spend one night, then the next day get on another long train ride. Either spend some time in the Nice area, or go right to Italy. If you do go to Nice, there's lots of small towns, villages, and rural areas nearby, which would dovetail nicely with your goal of getting outside of big cities. Of course, the same is true of Florence and its region - pick one or the other, and spend time so you really enjoy it.

For your flights within Europe and your London to Paris train, the prices will only go up the longer you wait to book. If you haven't booked your Eurostar from London to Paris, do it NOW. More details here, from the rail guru The Man In Seat 61: http://www.seat61.com/London-to-Paris-by-train.htm#.VQYvaOFzujA

For flights within Europe, look at Skyscanner: http://www.skyscanner.com/

Posted by
4 posts

Thank you so much for all the comments and suggestions! Very helpful!
Yes, we did purchase round-trip tickets from San Francisco to London because it was a good deal, but didn't think through the entire trip. So that's done and it is a glitch for sure (especially because I need to work out that last night in London, then getting to Heathrow the next morning).

We actually were thinking of traveling by train just for the "experience" but I hear what you have said and that is sound advice. I had to laugh at the fast train and scenery, not much opportunity to really see the scenery going 186mph - very true and makes my head spin at the thought of trying! But, The Man in Seat 61 actually described it very picturesque though. And, you are right, the Eurostar experience will give us some of that train experience.

So I am going to drop Nice, and we will head straight to Italy from Paris. I will check into flight from Paris to Pisa, and then car hire from there - that sounds like a good idea. Since it isn't good to drive into Florence, maybe a hotel would have a shuttle that does drop/pick-up? Also, gerri, what is ZTL? Is your accommodation recommendation a good "base" location for the entire stay?
I need to work on getting my Eurostar tickets asap - so that is what I will do now. Thank you for that push, so many details.
I'm very grateful for all the comments and suggestions. Thank you!

Posted by
3601 posts

If you are going to be driving in Italy, you'd better get up to speed on ZTL's. There have been lots of discussions on this site about them. They're not just in Florence. If you want to tour villages near Florence, you could base yourselves in an agriturismo that has parking, and take a train or bus into the city once or twice. It will be high season when you're there, so I'd get going on reservations.

Posted by
10344 posts

Shoe,
I'm glad you found our advice helpful.
These trips are difficult to plan.
Please don't hesitate to come back here if you have other questions.

Posted by
32212 posts

Shoe,

You've received lots of good information so far and I also have a few thoughts......

It's good to hear that you've decided to skip Nice, as that wouldn't be worth the effort just to stop for one night and would make the flow of the trip a bit awkward. You wouldn't arrive there until late afternoon and would be leaving first thing in the morning, so not much point.

Time is relatively short until departure, so you'll have to get a lot of planning done in short order, and get some hotel reservations in place. As this is your first trip to Europe, I'd highly recommend reading Europe Through The Back Door prior to your trip.

Regarding the EuroStar to Paris, although it is a rail trip, I find the experience slightly different than other rail travel in Europe. The crossing of the channel is about 20 minutes in a tunnel, so nothing to see. I'd highly recommend booking tickets well in advance for the best prices, but note that the cheapest tickets are often non-refundable and non-changeable, so choose carefully. Also, you MUST check-in for the EuroStar at least 30 minutes prior to departure, or you won't be riding. Allow lots of time as you also have to go through airport-style security at London St. Pancras and clear French Passport control. You'll also need to give some thought on how you'll get to your Paris hotel from Gare du Nord.

To get from Paris to Pisa, easyJet has flights only from Orly. You can easily get from Paris to ORY using the RER "B" to Antony station and then the automated People Mover to the airport (there are other methods as well).

A few points to note regarding budget airlines.....

  • Tickets are often based on a sliding scale, with prices increasing as the flight fills. The cheaper tickets are usually non-refundable and non-changeable.
  • If you think any of your checked luggage items will be over the allowed weight, paying for the next weight tier at the time of booking will be cheaper than paying at the gate.
  • easyJet no longer offers check-in at most airports, but rather just a bag drop. You can print your Boarding Pass up to a month before the flight.
  • easyJet allows ONE carry-on item per passenger, so keep that in mind. This doesn't mean "one plus a personal item", it means one only of the approved size.

Depending on where you plan on touring in Italy, a rental car may or may not be the best choice. Keep in mind that each driver will require the compulsory International Driver's Permit, which is used in conjunction with your home D.L. There are also the dreaded ZTL (limited traffic) areas in most towns, which come with hefty fines for drivers that pass through them. You'll also have to contend with high fuel costs, compulsory CDW and theft insurance, parking, tolls on the motorways, speed traps including the Traffic Tutor system and automated fuel pumps which may not accept U.S. magnetic strip credit cards.

Travel by train is often easier and more efficient, especially with the high speed trains that travel at 300 kmH. Again that will depend on exactly where you plan on touring. However, there are some "caveats" to be aware of when using public transit in Italy as well, so some "homework" will be required on that point. If you need more information, post another note.

After sightseeing in the Florence area, take the high speed train to Rome (90 minutes), spend a few days there and then use an easyJet flight from FCO to return to London prior to your flight home.

Are you using guidebooks to plan your touring in Italy?

Posted by
11613 posts

You will see signs in Italy's city centers that say Zona Traffico Limitato - this is a ZTL. You need a special permit to drive in these areas. Tickets will catch up with you up to a year or more later, your credit card company will charge you an administrative fee in the next billing cycle after requested by the Italian authorities (this is your clue to expect the ticket).

Posted by
4 posts

Thank you so much for those details! That was extremely helpful.
I made my reservation on the Eurostar for the London to Paris part of the trip. I ordered the book, Europe Through The Back Door, as recommended. I am rethinking the itinerary as the driving sounds like a recipe for stressful trip?
You asked about a guide book and I do have the RS Italy so I am going to work more on specifics and get to an itinerary and then book a flight accordingly. My initial thoughts are to come into Pisa, as suggested, then it looks like the train to Florence is only 35 min. Maybe we should stay around where we can get on the train from Florence, but have a car for getting around to the towns/villages through Tuscany - and Umbria. I wouldn't mind that kind of driving - and it does look like they drive on the right.

I will come back and post again with more focused questions.

Once again, thank you!

Posted by
11294 posts

Yes, Italian driving is on the same side as North American driving.

As for flights, Florence, Pisa, and Bologna all have airports that are all close enough to Florence to use. See which one has the best price and schedule to and from Paris and London taking into account the time and money it will take you to get where you want to be.

And remember that Paris has 3 airports and London has 6 airports. Some take a lot more time and/or money to reach than others (Paris Beauvais and London Stansted are much farther from the city centers than Paris Orly or London Heathrow). Again, take all factors into account before booking a "cheap" flight.

Posted by
4105 posts

Shoe,

Sorry, missed your question. Lodging on outskirts of Castellina is very centrally located for these towns.

Montereggioni, Volterra, San Gimignano, Siena, Greve, Montalcino. Every one is less than an hours

drive with the exception of Montalcino. We've been able to visit at 2 towns a day. Usually going to

the furtherest first then working our way back.

We always park outside the city walls. I print maps (via michlin) for each leg of the journey. A gramin

is also helpful.

Driving in Tuscany is like driving on country roads. It takes time because the roads are twisty

If you are going into Florence, parking @ Pizzale Michngelo is easy. This is outside the ZTL

Siena has several parking lots outside the city too.

Posted by
4 posts

Thanks so much for the added comments on driving in Tuscany and for that very helpful tip on the London/Paris airports. That is very good to know as I was surprised to see the cost just going from Heathrow into the city center - for that matter all of the cost in London with that GBP/USD, ouch!
I guess I am doubting my choice of trying to squeeze Italy in this trip with only 9 days - including getting there and back to London - so I haven't solidified the air travel route yet. If we didn't already have 2 cities (London and Paris) we were already spending time in, it would probably be ok. Too much city for too long could lose its luster for us plus we like our outdoor activities. But I sense from all the posts that we probably will need to go back whether or not we had 2 weeks or 9 days anyway!

By the way, I received the Europe Through the Back Door book this morning so I'm sure that is going to be informative.
I'll get to reading that asap.

Thank you so much for taking the time for suggestions and comments!