itinerary for a first timer

Cynthia, get busy doing some research. You have enough time to get to the areas mentioned. Stick with the trains.

Cynthia:
You may find this helpful http://www.ricksteves.com/plan/tips/itin.htm. Try to spend at least three nights in each place other than Milan and you will have a fine trip, not too rushed. I think you have a good plan to just stay the one night in Milan, see the Duomo and head to Venice on a train by 11:00 or Noon.

Thanks so much, would you take the time to stop at lake como?

We loved Varenna on Lake Como (34th anniversary at the time). Five couples in our group. All loved the area and the ease of travel among Varenna, Bellagio, and Menagio.

For my first trip I made, without doing any research whatsoever, a list of the Top Ten things that I always wanted to see, do, experience or eat in Italy. Well, it turned out that three were not even in Italy and one was fictional. When I completed List Draft 2, I started at the top and I put together an itinerary that covered what I could, saving the remainder for subsequent trips. This list is a bit like sourdough yeast starter - over the years I keep using part and replenishing it with new stuff, with some original items still there.

It's very hard to suggest an itinerary without knowing you. You have not given us any information on what you like or what you wish to do other than a little time to relax. Italy has so much to offer and the towns are so different that I think you should really study some guide books to determine which towns are of the most interest to you. We could all give you suggestions but you might not be interested in what we are so it would be a waste of our time as well as yours. I will say that with about 12 days I would pick 3 cities and no more. This will give you time to relax and not constantly be on the move. Donna

I'd suggest reviewing the itineraries for Italy that are offered in the guided tour section of this Rick Steves' web site, if you haven't already done so. Realizing you want to relax, I'm not suggesting you sign up for a guided tour (although his are great), but the framework can give you ideas of what Rick considers the key things to see/do in major areas of Italy. Then once you have your "suspects," Google those cities or places, and you can look at all sorts of photos on line. www.tripadvisor.com is a great place to also check out user reviews (often with photos posted) of various hotels, inns, etc. and users often post photographs of the towns, villages, too. Taking a train is a great way to get around, but some villages are not easily accessible by train, so that will somewhat limit you. Volterra is one of my favorites, but I don't think easily accessible by train. Definitely go to Florence and some outlying Tuscany, and I would suggest including a couple of nights in the Cinque Terre and at least two nights (if not three) in Rome. I haven't personally been to Orvieto (I understand accessible by train) several friends have and they loved it. In some of the better-sized cities (such as Florence), you can also pick up day trips/tours to surrounding villages (such as wine related) which offer a more relaxing way than trying to drive or find your own way. Just depends on your interests and what you like to see. Nail down hotel reservations soon, though, if memorable hotels are important to you.

Thanks everyone for your help. Since I have 12 actual days in Italy, I am thinking that perhaps I should add Cinque Terre and skip Lake Como. I am having trouble finding my old posts, so I know have asked some of these questions before. How long would it take to go from Florence to Cinque Terre? So.... tell me if this will work , I feel like this could be too much moving around. Should I just go to Siena as a Day trip from Florence rather than stay the night there? Are 2 days in Cinque Terre two many? 9/8 Arrive in Milan 8:45, sleep there 9/9 Duomo travel by train to Venice 9/10 Venice 9/11 Venice 9/12 Travel to Florence 9/13Florence 9/14 Siena 9/15 Cinque Terre 9/16 Cinque Terre 9/17 Rome 9/18 Rome 9/19 Rome 9/20 Leave Rome 5pm
Thanks for your input! Does anyone know how to find old posts, searching my name isn't bringing them all up.

"Does anyone know how to find old posts, searching my name isn't bringing them all up." Cynthia, go here http://www.ricksteves.com/graffiti/helpline/index.cfm/rurl/topic/39868/bget-answers-to-your-questions--searching-ricks-archivesb.html and follow the instructions for searching within a domain. enter Cynthia in the "all these words" box, and enter Oak Hill in the "this exact wording" box. It won't find all your posts (no one knows why) perfect but will find some of them, I count about 8 that it actually finds. If the link ends with "Travelers Helpline" it doesn't find the post, but does if the link says "To the Boot", etc.

Cynthia:
Your itinerary with 2 nights in Florence, 1 night Siena, 2 nights CT is a lot of travel and little sightseeing/enjoying/relaxing. The CT is a long trip from Siena, and as many as 4 trains. Not worth it, IMHO, for 2 nights. (Venice and Rome lengths are good.) I'd suggest saving the CT for "next time" and adding those 2 nights to Siena. It is totally different from Florence, and you can easily visit some hilltowns from there even without a car. Tours by Roberto does a nice job with wine, history and culture, if you'd like a guided tour in Chianti, leaving from Siena. You can take a bus to Volterra, San Gimignano, and others from Siena for easy day trips.

Thank you Laurel & Pacific Northwest! Still conflicted about taking the time to go to Lake Como. Is that hard to get to also? A friend of mine just told me it was much more built up than they expected. I am even toying with the idea of staying 4 nights in Venice... do you think that's too much? I like the idea of spending more time in Siena and taking some tours from there. Thanks again! Cynthia

cynthia, NO, Lago di Como is not difficult to get to! The small town preferred by many here is Varenna, and it's only about an hour from Milan. If you were planning to visit there, I'd suggest doing it at the beginning of your trip, as you'll passing through Milan anyway. It makes a GREAT location to recover from jet lag, and get used to actually being in Italy! In order to allow at least two days in Varenna, you will of course have to "adjust" the timing in your other locations accordingly. Congratulations and Happy travels!

Cynthia: I think you will maximize your enjoyment by not trying to get everywhere in a short trip. I am glad you think Venice for 4 nights is a possibility. I normally suggest that becasu eit is such a magnificent experience. You can daytrip to the laguna islands or Padua with that extrat day, if you like. You cannot go wrong with extra time in Rome, either. An extra day allows you time to take a break every afternoon which will contribute to your appreciation of the city. Why not stick to three cities outside of your arrival night in Milan (two are quite small, really, Venice and Siena,) and get to know those areas, each a uniquely different slice of Italy? Something like this: 9/8 Arrive in Milan 8:45, sleep there 9/9 Duomo travel by train to Venice 9/10 Venice 9/11 Venice 9/12 Venice 9/13 Siena 9/14 Siena 9/15 Siena 9/16 Rome 9/17 Rome 9/18 Rome 9/19 Rome
9/20 Leave Rome 5pm

Yes, I think you are right. So you would go to Siena rather than Florence?

Siena vs Florence. Siena is a lovely town, lots of atmosphere. Florence has the best sculpture and architecture of all your proposed destinations, including many (most?) of Michelangelo's works. The two places are quite different. So it must be a personal decision based on what appeals to you more.

Is travel between Siena and Florence easy enough to stay in one and day trip to the other?

"Is travel between Siena and Florence easy enough to stay in one and day trip to the other?" Yes. Many take the bus instead of the train, because the Siena bus station is closer to the historic center than the train station.

Siena vs Florence question: read Rick Steves on each and see which appeals to you. Florence clearly has amazing art treasures. Are you likely to want to spend more than one day in museums seeing the great art? Either Florence or Siena can be your base for daytrips to hilltowns or to one another: Just depends on which hilltowns you want to see. Plot out which daytrips you might want to do, then look at which city, Florence or Siena, has the best connections for you. Also look at lodging. Is there a B&B or small hotel that appeals to you? That might swing your vote. I think Siena is more accessible, normal, and easier place to stay. It is so lovely at night after you spend the day touring.

Thanks Laurel you have been very helpful. I just realized that we have an extra day. We are going to be in Milan on the 7th, not the 8th! So I guess we could stop one night in Como. I like the idea of setting up camp in siena and day tripping from there really appeals to me. If anyone has a better idea let me know! Thanks! 9/7 Arrive in Milan 8:45, sleep there 9/8 Duomo, travel by train to Como, 9/9 travel by train to Venice 9/10 Venice 9/11 Venice 9/12 Venice 9/13 Siena 9/14 Siena 9/15 Siena 9/16 Rome 9/17 Rome 9/18 Rome 9/19 Rome
9/20 Leave Rome 5pm

Oops, thanks to Kent and Chani, and everyone else too!