Itinerary

TOO much! I would think about paring it down to about half of what you have, and you would be much happier. Understand that every day traveling, might be a day lost. Depending on you stops and so on. I would make less stops, and do more day trips from each stop. Just a thought! Enjoy, Jeff

I don't think it is TOO much. It may be a little much but not over the top. Here is my advice for a slight readjustment.

I would add more time to Rome and CT. Rome deserves a mimimum of 4 nights to see all the major sights. CT deserves 2 nights so you have enough time to explore the towns and hike the trials.

I would skip the stop in Pisa, unless seeing the leaning tower is a must see for you. Milan is also not worthy of two nights (let the ongoing debate begin fellow rickniks). You can see the duomo and last supper in half a day and those are the only things worth seeing in Milan. Personally, I would skip Milan and go to Lake Como for two nights. I would also skip the stop in Padua and spend more time in Venice.

To summarize here is how I would plan your trip.

Day 1-5: Rome
Day 5-8: Siena
Day 8-12: Florence
Day 12 - 14: CT
Day 14 - 17 Lake Como
Day 17 - 18: Verona
Day 18 - 21: Venice, depart

No matter what you do I am sure it will be great.

It's way too much! You're talking 11 different locations in 21 days including travel days! You'll spend most of your time checking into/out of the hotel, waiting in the train station, on the train and then getting to your new hotel. That doesn't leave a lot of time for sight seeing.

If you split your time between Rome, Florence and Venice you could take day trips to a lot of the towns you mention and not waste your time changing hotels.

Go to the trenitalia site and plan out your trip. Use dates within this week to get all the schedules and see how much time you'll spend on the train or bus. don't forget that on top of that time you must factor in the time to check in/out and time to get to and from the train station.

http://trenitalia.it/homepage_en.html

I would split it up like this:

7 days Rome- Day trip to Assisi

7 days Florence- Day trip to Pisa, Siena and cinque terre..

7 days Venice- Day trip to Verona and Padua.

This will give you time to enjoy the cities you'll be visiting.

Donna

Each of those cities I listed as a daytrip are independent day trips, not all on the same day. So Siena would be a day, Pisa would be a day and Cinque terre would be a day. same with Verona and Padua.

Donna

Julie, ignore the detractors who tell you to stay put in a place for a week at a time. While I agree that 11 places in 21 days is a lot, 7 days in Rome, Florence, and Venice is too few places.

My travel philosophy travel is that I don't know when I'm going to be back so I like to see and stay in as many places as possible, but balancing that with not making myself feel rushed. I have found that a two night minimum accomplishes that goal. Although some places like Rome, Florence, Sorrento, and Venice deserve more than the 2 night minimum.

Bottomline is it is YOUR trip. Do what you want and set it at a pace you think you will enjoy. Last year I was there for 16 days and stayed in 6 different places. Not once did I feel rushed or that I didn't get to fully enjoy any of the places I stayed.

Scott..."ignore the detractors who tell you to stay put in a place for a week at a time."
I'm not aware that anyone on this thread has yet suggested that....but even if they had, Julie did ask for advice from all forum posters, not just those who prefer to travel at a faster pace.

Julie: Your itinerary might be a little cramped. I agree with a previous poster that it is good to allow at least 2 days in each city. Last May I took a Heart of Italy RS tour and extended it. So my travel dates were 5/5 to 5/25 (or 18 full days of touring Italy). I stayed in: Florence, CT, Volterra, Rome, Assisi, Lago Trasimeno, Siena and back to Florence. There are two things I would do differently: 1.I would add one day in Siena and take away a day at Lago Trasimeno; and 2. I would rent a car in Tuscany/Umbria. My first trip to Italy was fantastic and I so love the country and its people, I will go back and focus on Rome & the Amalfi Coast. Whatever you decide, I am sure you will fall in love with Italy - like so many others before you. Ciao!

Ok, I've taken you suggestions into consideration and Revised the Itinerary. I've also solidified the dates. I'm putting in my time off request at work tomorrow. Only 807 days in advance.

Sept 30 - Oct 3 Rome

Oct 4 Rome to Assisi

Oct 5 Assisi

Oct 6 Assisi to Florence

Oct 7 - 10 Florence including day trips to Siena and Hill towns

Oct 11 Florence to CT via Pisa

Oct 12 CT

Oct 13 CT to Milan

Oct 14 - 16 Milan including day trips to Verona and maybe Como

Oct 17 Milan to Venice via Padua

Oct 18 - 19 Venice

Oct 20 Home

I won't skip Milan, La Scala is high on my list of priorities. In fact the La Scala schedule may cause me to reverse the itinerary. And I can't skip Padua either. I want to see the Giottos and the Anatomy Theatre at the University is about the only thing my Mother has expressed a particular interest in. Even though I'm trying hard to get her to participate, she is content to let me do all the planning.

Scott, evidently you didn't read my response or you would've seen that she would be "basing" out of each city for 7 days with many day trips thrown in. NOT spending 7 days in 3 cities.

Julie, your schedule is still to rushed for me but if that's how you and your mom pre-fer to travel then you should. The advice you've gotten if from people who have been so I'm thinking since you haven't, maybe you should consider it when we all tell you that you are putting too much into your itinerary.

If your must see's are Milan and Padua then I think you should concentrate on those areas.

Also, I noticed you have listed that you will go from one city to another VIA a third city. When you buy your train tickets you will have to buy tickets from Florence to Pisa and then then from Pisa to ? (sorry can't remember where you were going after that) if you are riding on the faster trains that require seat reservations. It will be fine on the slower trains but the faster train tickets are for a specific train, a specific seat and a specific time. The cost should be the same or slightly more to make these stops (the Padua one also). Don't pack more than your You and your Mom can lift on your own as there are no porters at the stations and the steps to get into the trains are very steep.

Donna

Donna, I read it, I didn't agree with your advice. Places like Siena and CT are completely different at night and are worth spending a couple of nights. Siena for instance is a completely different place at night and you miss out on that by day tripping it from Florence. You also suggested day tripping CT from Florence which doesn't make any sense.

Julie,
I agree with the poster who said that some of your day trip destinations are different at night. We had planned to spend one night in Siena and extended it to two once there. We stayed three nights in CT; can't imagine only being there during the day. Personally two nights in Florence was plenty for me. Another factor is where you live. Living in Omaha, the areas I found most enchanting were those water areas: Sorrento, Venice, CT, and Varenna (to a lesser extent).. You are a planner (two years out) and you have lots of time. Also, my brother and his wife winged it (June), and had no problems getting rooms where they wanted to stay.

I understand that you didn't agree with it but you misstated it, that's what I have a problem with. I never said to spend the entire week in each city, only to use then as a base and take day trips which cut out the hassle of changing hotels every night.

*7 days in Rome, Florence, and Venice is too few places. **

I agree which is why I suggested doing day trips from them. What doesn't make sense is packing every morning with an aged parent and dragging them across a country they've never been to before.

Our travel philosophies are different. I don't like to rush and you are okay with a more aggressive trip. That's fine, that's what makes us all different. The OP asked for advice and I gave mine. I would never consider doing the trip she has suggested. I'm not the only one, if you'll read the other posts you'll see a number of them agree that it's too much. Even you said it was a lot. What I'm trying to get the OP to realize is that she'll spend the majority of her time changing hotels and traveling, not seeing the cities she has listed. If she's okay with that then she should do the trip as advertised. If she wants to enjoy Italy, I think she should cut some things out.

Donna

I have a simular trip itinerary but I am not looking to see towns on the water because I am going late Nov/early December.

Here is my trip example: FLy into Milan (1 night), Florence 3 nights, Siena 2 nights, Assisi 2 nights, Rome 4 nights, Venice 3 nights.

I had wanted to take side trips to San Gimnano or Pisa from Florence but in a post, I was told to enjoy as much of Florence that I could. Well I also wanted to See Orvieto as a side trip from Siena or on my way to Rome from Assisi. I was influenced not to realizing that the hill towns would be my reprieve from the city hustle bustle. Then I considered a Pompei side trip from Rome, but I realized that I was basically creating a check mark trip, trying to see a lot in a relatively short period of time (I have 2 weeks).

I too feel that all these side trips are a must see, but I am loading up a trip which will be maybe the most special trip I have taken. But I know just how exhausting it is to stick to a loaded plan; it is possible but it is tiring. I did a 10 day trip in Germany. I stayed overnight in 6 cities. All I had time for was beer and wurst, you get into a city too late for good site seeing, seeing just a few sites the next day before you get on a train for the next whirlwind city visit.

If you feel that certain towns are a must see, then by all means, stick with your plans, but maybe have the philosophy, you will do it if it feels right. Once you are there you may realize that the city that you are in is too awesome to leave for a side trip.

This is hiliarious! This is the Rick Steves' forum. Have you seen how many places HE recommends on a 21 day trip? It's 10-11 with side trips - see page 4 of Italy 2009. Some of you should move over to the Slow Trav webpage!

I agree that 7 nights in one place isn't for me. And all those day trips going to the bus/train station take just as much time as just going WITH your bag but less when I just waltz into my room for the night instead of the WASTE of time returning to the same place each night.

I think your plan is very doable!

Merrill, I see what you mean by what RS states in a 21 day trip. As a tour, you have someone leading you around by the nose, it is easy to follow the leader and not have to worry about using your brain to make a trip work. But for his independent traveler trips, he mentions the 21 day trip is designed to be done by car but that by rail, there should be a few modifications/eliminations. I guess it would be easier to see a lot more by car than it would by rail; less waiting I guess.

Like I said in my above post, it is doable, but may be exhausting.

WOW Merrill, 3 posts and already kicking people off the forum.

As pointed out, if traveling by rail there should be some adjustments. An no, when doing day trips you don't have to worry about packing, unpacking and checking into and out of hotels so it doesn't take as much time and is less tiring.

As stated before, everyone has their own travel style. If the OP is comfortable with this many cities then she should do it. She asked for advice and most of us have told her that she is doing too much. The decision is hers to make. I suppose if she only wanted the "yes, you should do it responses" she wouldn't have asked for advice in the first place. Since she did ask for advice she has been given alternatives to the break neck pace tour she has listed. No one is forcing her to take any advice but I see no problem with anyone giving her alternatives. I also see no problems with suggesting she slow down a bit. In the end the choice and the vacation are hers. Let her read the advice and choose for herself. As you said, it's the Rick Steves' forum but it's not Rick Steves' vacation and I've not seen one time where he took his Mother with him on one of his whirlwind tours.

Julie, I like your revised itinerary, with the following reservations. observations and suggestions:

Too much time in Milan. It has the least "atmosphere" of all your towns and cities and there really isn't much in the way of tourist sights. How many performances at La Scala???

Then move on to Verona which is really worth at 2 days if you can. Otherwise, spend one night, then take an early train to Padua, leave your bags at the station and spend the day, then continue to Venice.

I guess you could go to Verona as a day trip from Milan, figure 3 hours for the round-trip train, and be back in Milan in time to change for the La Scala performance. How much will you enjoy it if you've been on the go all day? How much time will you have to sightsee in Verona? You still have to get to the sights from the train station, and back again. Dinner?

Venice needs at least 2 full days, which I think you have. If you can, think about adding another day.

Pisa is very easy to see on the way from Florence to CT. I had to change trains there anyway. Take a taxi from the train station, so you don't waste time looking for the bus stop and waiting for the bus. If you want to climb the tower (quite an experience because the ramp tilts so much) you have to reserve in advance. The church and baptistry are worth seeing.

Except in the CT, I found elevators at all the train stations on your route, or the platforms were at street level.

Have you considered dropping Assisi? While it's only about 1.5 hours on the train from Rome to Florence, adding a day in Assisi adds almost 4 hours just to train time, plus the hotel change. So you are losing most of an entire day of sightseeing.

Julie, I think the revised itinerary looks great. I don't think you will feel rushed at all. Especially since you made a very logical route with short train rides between each destination and you are flying open jaw.

FYI, I failed to mention that packing light will be essential to an itinerary such as yours. If you are getting up and moving every 2 to 3 days you absolutely do not want to be lugging around a 50 pound suitcase with 3 weeks worth of clothes. If you are not the carry on type I highly recommend making yourself comfortable with it. Carry on every time you travel somewhere between now and your trip to italy. If you are already a light packing traveler then you will absolutely have no problem with your itinerary.

Scott brings up a great point.

My trips to Italy have been much like yours, with 1-4 nights per destination. I travel with a 24" wheelie - it weighs no more than my large carryon wheelie and that little bit more room makes it easier to pack, since there's always extra space, even when not expanded. I certainly wouldn't try to take anything larger on the train.